597 replies to this topic

[Sidekick]

I really don´t get why you are arguing with Cybermech.

I mean... he is so obviously trolling that it´s not even subtext anymore. He starts by an argument attempting to "disprove" the article, explaining that the situation is worse than originally written in it. Then, he hooks you up on semantics, phrases and a constant derailment of the discussion.

So please... can anyone of you please be honest, bow before the troll and carry on with the discussion abaut the original article? His derailments are fun and effective, but in the same instant they aree bold and obvious.

Stop being so dense, guys. I know the storm of {body fluids} has gotten to you, but there is just no point in keeping the entertainment up for CM.

[Cybermech]

nice try.

I don't know where to begin cause your still trying to lie to make you and this article into facts.

Only person mentioning % is you, only one stating that there is or not total devotion to PGI is you.
You can keep trying to take things out of context.
Why I mention Raven3l, ECM, Repair and rearm is for the article to be right then these things would not have existed.
Because they all have brought lots of negative feedback including post on other media too.
It is also why I mention the "lrm's are op" and the "lrm's need buff" screenshot.
There has been plenty of this kind of complaining, you clearly have not being around long enough.
While you think your typing out your own thought what you and this article are doing is pushing out lies that have been cooking on these forums for a long time.

Sidekick, on 05 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I really don´t get why you are arguing with Cybermech.

I mean... he is so obviously trolling that it´s not even subtext anymore. He starts by an argument attempting to "disprove" the article, explaining that the situation is worse than originally written in it. Then, he hooks you up on semantics, phrases and a constant derailment of the discussion.

So please... can anyone of you please be honest, bow before the troll and carry on with the discussion abaut the original article? His derailments are fun and effective, but in the same instant they aree bold and obvious.

Stop being so dense, guys. I know the storm of {body fluids} has gotten to you, but there is just no point in keeping the entertainment up for CM.

how dare you accuse me of trying to derail this thread, I have been nothing but honest all the way up.
I have taken nothing out of context, these are lies and manipulations to make valid points out of context.
People are supporting this and I'm using what really happened and is happening compared to the rumors people have been supporting.

[Jestun]

Sidekick, on 05 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

I really don´t get why you are arguing with Cybermech.

I mean... he is so obviously trolling that it´s not even subtext anymore. He starts by an argument attempting to "disprove" the article, explaining that the situation is worse than originally written in it. Then, he hooks you up on semantics, phrases and a constant derailment of the discussion.

So please... can anyone of you please be honest, bow before the troll and carry on with the discussion abaut the original article? His derailments are fun and effective, but in the same instant they aree bold and obvious.

Stop being so dense, guys. I know the storm of {body fluids} has gotten to you, but there is just no point in keeping the entertainment up for CM.

Actually I was planning on judging based on his reply if I should continue.

I'm honestly worried about his mental state and don't want to be responsible for leading him further into his delusions.

I mean, who wants that on their conscience?


:edit:

Just read his latest post.

He is still insisting I think there was no complaints before coolant.

I'm scared...

Edited by Jestun, 05 September 2013 - 09:59 AM.

[Sidekick]

Q.E.D.

EDIT: And I´d like to be honest. I am admiring good trolls. The skill it takes to derail any discussion, the presistance to take a position that is as logic as Star Trek science, the balls to stand up and say: "Well, you are going to hate me...." all that for that little gratification of KNOWING that on the other end of the screen, someon is biting in his/her keyboard in anger....

Good trolls... they are the same category of people like good comedians. They know how to get their audience.

I bow before you, Cybermech. You re just a natural.

Edited by Sidekick, 05 September 2013 - 10:03 AM.

[Jestun]

FYI, when someone asks how an article is false, this is how you respond: http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2726341

[Cybermech]

again failing to manipulate the situation, were are not talking just about complaints.
If your worried about my mental health, how come I don't have to lie to make things sound normal.

You can't even see how "A number of posts from this thread have been removed for lacking a constructive purpose. "Do not want" is not a useful point." benefits you and anyone who disagreed with consumables, if you can't figure that out you clearly are missing way too many things.

While you seem to be avoiding most things, you cannot avoid the fact that the article is lying about lots of things.
Raven3L, Ecm, repair and rearm, Lrm's needs buff or op are of some of the things that you and the article are trying to point out didn't bring as much hate or complaints on these forums and in other media.
Nothing about %.

Once again you do not know enough to bring this conversation in the direction that you want.
Please get someone who knows what they are talking about and not just copying and pasting other peoples ideas.


Edit:

Jestun, on 05 September 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Proof? Evidence? Source?

Her's the general discussion forum 6 months ago: http://mwomercs.com/..._all__st__16110

If you still feel this is the same atmosphere as we currently have then perhaps you can actually provide something to back that claim up? Because I see nowhere near the volume of dissatisfaction, nor the same amount of hostility. That's not to say everyone was a white knight who agreed with everything PGI did, but it was completely different to the current atmosphere.

This is where my point about raven3l, ecm and all that come into play.
You see something massively different, I don't because I know more about this then you.
Nothing new if you include, raging on the forums, people ripping into PGI, people leaving, people saying there going to leave, people asking for refunds, people demanding things.

Edited by Cybermech, 05 September 2013 - 10:29 AM.

[Sidekick]

Both the article and the reply linked by Jetsun aren´t factual at all.

To explain this:

Spoiler

The article describes itself as "a cautionary tale". And it is honest in this regard, it is a tale told by an observer. It is the very nature of journalism and observations that they aren´t factual, but give the observers resonance on an event.

Example
Observer A "I saw Timmy taking Lisbeths cookie. She was sad as he ate it."
Observer B "That is not true. Lisbeth gave Timmy the cookie. She was sich because she had too many"
Observer C "The cookies must have been poisoned!"

Observer A and B witness the same process, but with a different reception. Observer C is not stating any observations on his own, he is interpretating one specific observation (that is also an interpretation of the events) and stating a theory.

There is no fact in A, B or C´s statement/tale/article. Timmy might or might not have eaten a cookie and it might or might not have been Lisbeths, and she might or might not have been content with it. There is no way for us, the listeners to the observations to tell what is "true" (in the sense that it matches the events) and which is not. Even a true description of the events might yield a wrong interpretation.


Coming back to the article. So the author describes a series of events that he has witnessed and describes in a context that is matching some of those participates. This is not implying any facts or lies. He descibes his observations, following his interpretations. And because the events have neither a clear interpretation of those participating, nor a clear result, there is no truth or lie in it.

Look at Jetsuns linked statement. It claims to disprove some elements of the article by pointing out an individual perspective. "I dont have a problem with this", "it isn´t crowdfunding if there is a benifit", etc... all these counter-arguments are not arguments. They disprove/prove nothing, because they state an individual perspective to a situation that has an individual observation to each and every participant.

There is no truth.
Just observations.
And interpretation.

[Alois Hammer]

Sidekick, on 05 September 2013 - 09:44 AM, said:

So please... can anyone of you please be honest, bow before the troll and carry on with the discussion abaut the original article? His derailments are fun and effective, but in the same instant they aree bold and obvious.

Precisely why he occupies a well-earned spot on my Ignore List.

[Cybermech]

dear god, if I found that I wouldn't have wasted so much time

Alois all you have been doing is trolling, so no idea what your saying.

Edited by Cybermech, 05 September 2013 - 10:43 AM.

[Enigmos]

GalaxyBluestar, on 30 August 2013 - 09:26 PM, said:

how can facts be biased?

Answer: When those facts are about select opinions.

Apparently under the radar: the only forums worse are for Call of Duty players, according to that article. I'm sure we are all quite pleased with such a flattering comparison.

And sure, everyone has a right to be angry. That does not say anything about being rightly angry, but only that you have rights.

[Cybermech]

agreed everyone does have a right to be angry and I have spent my time not trolling people in 3pv threads.
There are plenty of broken hearts and its not worth the time.
But saying this article is full of facts is where I have drawn the line.

[Fut]

Homeless Bill, on 30 August 2013 - 04:51 PM, said:

The Silent Majority speaks. His words are wise and his pockets deep; he is... agreeing with the Vocal Minority. Nevermind... he's clearly not the target demographic =P

On a more serious note, I'm worried this is all we're going to see come review day: game hasn't changed from initial impressions, developers have pissed off community, game has a horrible new player experience.

Don't die, MWO =[

Please, please, PLEASE don't die.

[Cybermech]

lolz it is not going to die, not even close, too many {Noble MechWarriors} even though most are pissed off.
this game with its lacking functions has been going for a year and is still here, not sure if more could be said.
always complain about things that you don't like, just try not to believe some of the lies going around.

Edited by Cybermech, 05 September 2013 - 11:17 AM.

[merz]

it isn't going to die, at least not any time soon and not because of the forum activity. though many people are upset because it doesn't fit their imagining of what a mechwarrior title is supposed to play like at this point in time, there are as many opinions on just what that game would look like as there are people providing them. the 'community' doesn't have some kind of a unified voice, and if you look at most of the core agitators, its the same SA/4chan crowd out to demonize PGI and install themselves as the community's saviours out of the same, pervasive and borderline-pathological need to be the center of attention. which is pretty much what compels them to similar shenanigans in other mmo's.

It wouldn't be surprising if they'd organise some drive to mass login and team-kill on launch date, or something to that effect.

Edited by merz, 05 September 2013 - 11:45 AM.

[GranoblasticMan]

Sybreed, on 31 August 2013 - 07:05 AM, said:

PGI did its biggest mistake by saying the core community (founders) are just a minority in the grand scheme of things, that the game is not built for us anymore. We were promised a game, we're getting a different one because we're not so important after all.

PGI should just remember that we, the founders, made them by giving them 5 million dollars. I'm not saying that we can also destroy them... but we can seriously damage them and it's already begun.

It's not a threat or anything, and I don't want to participate in any kind of damaging propaganda, but PGI should respect the people who trusted them at the beginning, the ones who gave them a lot of money to create a MW game. I'm merely giving them a warning of things to come if they don't change their course of action.

I mean, just look at Star Citizen, they keep taking feedback from the forums and when it's good feedback, they actually try to implement it in their game. The relation with the community over there is a polar opposite of what I'm seeing here. PGI should just take notes... and perhaps ask advice from Chris Roberts next time they meet him.

I mean, the patcher and the hangar module are already very impressive.. PGI should really be worried.

Thanks, I'm giving Star Citizen a look now.

I'm done supporting PGI.

[Cybermech]

actually star citizen is not even in alpha yet.
very interesting game but still nothing has been produced so only time will tell if its factual or not.
don't include a patcher and hangar module as how things are going, still need more content before you can even see what direction is being taken.

[Jehlani]

You can always complain that your customers aren't giving you a fair shake, but does it matter? If you already ran them off, you're already done. Better to fix things while you can than have to come crawling on bended knee begging for them to come back and never achieving the success you hoped for. This screw up is something that others have seen, and other people in the industry saw. Don't let your career go downhill just cause you feel like standing up for your ego.

You guys might want to try taking a page out of a politicians guide. Don't say anything concrete till you know what's going to happen.


"Men should pledge themselves to nothing; for reflection makes a liar of their resolution." -Sophocles

[Cybermech]

eh no, PGI are not begging anyone.
since a long time they have seem to be on the stance that they are creating a game and people will come back.

[Chronojam]

Cybermech, on 05 September 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

actually star citizen is not even in alpha yet.
very interesting game but still nothing has been produced so only time will tell if its factual or not.
don't include a patcher and hangar module as how things are going, still need more content before you can even see what direction is being taken.

This would be true if not for many interviews, posts, and videos stating the direction the game is being taken in. The whole point of the alpha releases are to show us, at the earliest possible point, what the direction is. Contrast this to MWO's system of "find out when the patch notes hit the day of a release" and "cryptic one-liners in locked threads, speculate amongst yourselves in another thread."

[Cybermech]

Oh I already got 30 euro early access, have the hanger and everything else.

"This would be true if not for many interviews, posts, and videos stating the direction the game is being taken in. The whole point of the alpha releases are to show us, at the earliest possible point, what the direction is"

This is very true the direction is there, still have to wait and see like others.


Still too the point, this article is riddled with lies and anyone saying to read this cause its good.
Is lying to you.

Edited by Cybermech, 05 September 2013 - 03:37 PM.