184 replies to this topic

[gamesguy]

Lt muffins, on 13 June 2012 - 09:16 PM, said:

You know that the Clan tech is overpowered for a reason.

And this reason would be?

[Full Metal Monte]

Not a fair comparison if only for the double HS's on the Fafnir. I think I could do pretty well on the standard Atlas variant vs. the double Heavy GR Fenrir given some terrain to use. And for team matches, I wouldn't go as Ammo reliant as the Fafnir is. Once the 32 HGR rounds are gone, you go from a monster to a yap dog. Better get in short/med range and kick some ***.

For MechLab purposes, the Fafnir is the obvious choice given the better technology available.

[Eli Dacreach]

Clan weapons are more powerful due to long degredation of IS stuff due to multiple Succession Wars.

[gamesguy]

Eli Dacreach, on 13 June 2012 - 09:34 PM, said:

Clan weapons are more powerful due to long degredation of IS stuff due to multiple Succession Wars.

1. Gameplay should never be sacrificed for the sake of the backstory.

2. The whole premise behind clans' technological superiority is retarded. If you send the US army into the Amazon rainforest and isolate them there for 500 years they're not going to end up with better tech than the rest of the world.

3. Even dumber is the idea that war would somehow reverse scientific advancement.

Edited by gamesguy, 13 June 2012 - 09:39 PM.

[Lt muffins]

gamesguy, on 13 June 2012 - 09:27 PM, said:

And this reason would be?

The clans are what the Innersphere had the potential to be technology wise. My reason is that since the clans did not experience the "shelling back to the stone age" they had the chance to improve instead of hiding in the shadow of the past.

Now the clans served a purpose in the 31st century, if they didn't show up the Innersphere would surely be in the 5th succession war.
The Clans was a forgotten memory of the past that has returned to haunt them and because of the technological edge they had, whether they liked it or not the great houses had to cooperate (to a limited degree) to protect their planets (with help from the phone company).

gamesguy, on 13 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

3. Even dumber is the idea that war would somehow reverse scientific advancement.

let me focus on this point specifically. during the first and second succession wars there was a lot of focus on destroying production facilities, you are probably thinking "why not just rebuild them" well the 1st and 2nd succession wars combined lasted about 100 years (slightly less but i dont feel like checking sarna right now) after that much time blowing up production facilities there was not many people who remembered how to build the devices to start with. It also didn't help that comstar was stealing all the data storage devices with any useful data on it.

So from a combination of firepower and espionage the Innersphere was effectively "blown back to the stoneage"

Edited by Lt muffins, 13 June 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Frostiken]

The Fafnir is broken in design in MWLL. Precision aim and being able to shoot whatever body part you want doesn't work with dual IHGauss. So unless they're going to add a cone of fire, I'd rather not see it at all. Players save up like mad to roll out the early assault, and the one that people save up for and pick is the Fafnir simply because they can pretty much one-hit-kill most of the lighter mechs that are still running around.

Though it doesn't help that they completely fudged all the numbers with IHGauss in MWLL to make them ridiculously more powerful than they should've ever been. The range is unfairly extreme, the damage is unfairly extreme, and I think it carries much more ammo. Even on the regular HGauss the damage dropoff was nerfed laughably, and it outperforms the standard gauss at nearly all ranges.

But the MWLL devs have a massive hard-on for making IS stuff outperform the Clan stuff, so no big surprises here... before the Fafnir rolled out I pretty much knew what to expect. Point is, singular HGauss = okay. Dual IHGauss = not okay.

Edited by Frostiken, 13 June 2012 - 09:48 PM.

[Damocles 1]

gamesguy, on 13 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

1. Gameplay should never be sacrificed for the sake of the backstory.

2. The whole premise behind clans' technological superiority is retarded. If you send the US army into the Amazon rainforest and isolate them there for 500 years they're not going to end up with better tech than the rest of the world.

3. Even dumber is the idea that war would somehow reverse scientific advancement.

USA! USA! USA!... wait *** did you say?
Besides all that, the starleague was much more than "TEH ARMY" more of a self sufficient interstellar military machine with all sorts of smarty pants and shooty shirts

[rilianv]

I've played as both. The Atlas won more often than the fafnir.
the fafnirs HG rifles might do a ton of damage but thats only if your within its optimal range.
the atlas carries a regular gauss rifle thats range is at least 200 meters farther than the fafnirs HG.

basically, as long as the atlas keeps its distance and doesnt stand still, the fafnir would never have a chance to use the HG

[Insidious Johnson]

Franken Faflas

[gamesguy]

Lt muffins, on 13 June 2012 - 09:39 PM, said:

The clans are what the Innersphere had the potential to be technology wise. My reason is that since the clans did not experience the "shelling back to the stone age" they had the chance to improve instead of hiding in the shadow of the past.

Now the clans served a purpose in the 31st century, if they didn't show up the Innersphere would surely be in the 5th succession war.
The Clans was a forgotten memory of the past that has returned to haunt them and because of the technological edge they had, whether they liked it or not the great houses had to cooperate (to a limited degree) to protect their planets (with help from the phone company).

Gameplay should NEVER be sacrificed for the sake of backstory.

Quote

let me focus on this point specifically. during the first and second succession wars there was a lot of focus on destroying production facilities, you are probably thinking "why not just rebuild them" well the 1st and 2nd succession wars combined lasted about 100 years (slightly less but i dont feel like checking sarna right now) after that much time blowing up production facilities there was not many people who remembered how to build the devices to start with. It also didn't help that comstar was stealing all the data storage devices with any useful data on it.

So from a combination of firepower and espionage the Innersphere was effectively "blown back to the stoneage"

This is nonsense. Production facilities are not hubs of scientific knowledge, blowing up a bunch of assembly line workers is not going to cause scientific progress to reverse itself. And unless Comstar is the Judeo Christian God there is no way it can somehow "steal all the data storage" when there are thousands of worlds with trillions of people.

The IS was in no way bombed back into the stone age. Did 90% of the population die? Not even close. In fact I'd wager less people die as a percentage of the population than the casaulties suffered by the European nations during WW1.

I don't really have a problem with Btech handwaving all this away(especially since giant robot armies are about unrealistic as you can get), but don't try to pretend it's realistic and should have an impact on gameplay. The number one priority for any videogame is that it should be fun. It's not fun when one guy has guns that do twice the damage of yours and has a longer range.

Edited by gamesguy, 13 June 2012 - 10:04 PM.

[Lt muffins]

gamesguy, on 13 June 2012 - 10:00 PM, said:

I don't really have a problem with Btech handwaving all this away(especially since giant robot armies are about unrealistic as you can get), but don't try to pretend it's realistic and should have an impact on gameplay. The number one priority for any videogame is that it should be fun. It's not fun when one guy has guns that do twice the damage of yours and has a longer range.

lets put of the arguments we have done all but derail the tread, any ways look forward to seeing you playing a few months from now.
We will let the auto cannons do the talking then.

[Valkyrie Onyx]

KODIAK BEATS EVERYONE!


BO YA!!

[Valkyrie Onyx]

Fafnir definitly hase a range advantage thoue i belive.

[Ian]

Actually taken logically the whole clans are more advanced than the IS is really stupid. They fought plenty of wars amongst themselves while they were off on their resource poor planets....

Fortunately we have what is called suspension of disbelief to let our imaginations make it work. After all walking robot tanks are pretty stupid from a logical standpoint. We aren't going with logic, we are going with cool. If you cant let it go at that, maybe soft science fiction isn't for you.

[KageRyuu]

In a fight between mechs of the same weight class with similar armor and speed, the one with the greater range tends to win. Unless they're too stupid to use their range advantage. And no, a Fafnir does not have the range advantage I'll tell you that up front, just look at some of the load outs of the Atlas, verse the 3 load outs of a Fafnir.

Edited by KageRyuu, 14 June 2012 - 12:41 AM.

[Stormwolf]

So which variants are participating in this battle?

[Tincan Nightmare]

Ian, on 13 June 2012 - 11:31 PM, said:

Actually taken logically the whole clans are more advanced than the IS is really stupid. They fought plenty of wars amongst themselves while they were off on their resource poor planets....

Fortunately we have what is called suspension of disbelief to let our imaginations make it work. After all walking robot tanks are pretty stupid from a logical standpoint. We aren't going with logic, we are going with cool. If you cant let it go at that, maybe soft science fiction isn't for you.

Well how the clans fight wars are different then how the IS fights wars, basically its all about duels, wether between two warriors or two clusters, with the victor getting the predetermined prize. If Clan Wolf wants a factory from Clan Snow Raven, they send a force over to issue a challenge, the place and time are set, and both sides declare what troops and equipment they are bringing. Yah when the SLDF got to the clan worlds fighting did breakout amongst some of the troops, but it was on a much smaller scale and only lasted for a comparatively short time (at least compared to the succession wars.) In the IS, nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons were being used widely during the first succession war, as well as orbital bombardment by warships. Each nation targeted important worlds that possessed the industrial infrastructure to produce warships and mechs, usually nuking the plants out of existence. As far as the scientific community, Comstar used the wars as cover for an assassination plot specifically targeting engineers and scientists. Now I'm not saying that could realistically happen, since were talking about hundreds of worlds, but for suspension of disbelief its a least a 'decent' excuse .

Though honestly I just want to blow things up with my giant mech, I could care less about the 'why' of everything .

[Tyra]

gamesguy, on 13 June 2012 - 09:38 PM, said:

1. Gameplay should never be sacrificed for the sake of the backstory.

2. The whole premise behind clans' technological superiority is retarded. If you send the US army into the Amazon rainforest and isolate them there for 500 years they're not going to end up with better tech than the rest of the world.

3. Even dumber is the idea that war would somehow reverse scientific advancement.

1. Agreed. With the caveat there are ways to preserve both if you try hard enough. That's preferable.

2. Not when you consider they left with advanced technology and a lot of production capability. They then developed a society where scientists were highly prized and production and development were protected.

3. We, as a species, forgot how to make concrete for over a thousand years. Now multiply that with 300+ years of constant warfare on global and galactic scales. Post WW2 there were countries that got bombed back 50 years. There are countries today so ravaged by constant warfare they're still technologically in the 20s, with the occasional advanced bit of salvaged tech. (not unlike the inner sphere)

Now keep doing that. Over. And Over. And Over.

Add into that the fact there was a faction deliberately sabotaging development.

Edited by Tyra, 14 June 2012 - 01:28 AM.

[CCC Dober]

Fafnir gets my vote if the Mechs are standard 3rd millenium scrap-tech.

Customized however, I think the Atlas would give it more than just a serious headache (irony to the max, I know). I'm thinking of a particular JJ variant used by a known Steiner Commander in MC2 (possibly a tweaked AS7-K3).

All that aside, we might see the Atlas II in the game at some point. Might turn some heads, who knows ^^

Just look at that booty ...

• 1xLB-X Autocannon/10
  
• 1xLRM-20
  
• 1xSRM-6
  
• 2xMedium Pulse Laser
  
• 2xExtended Range Large Laser

[neodym]

I like Fafnir better