195 replies to this topic

[-Deliverance]

I have experieced 50 meters away from a standing still spider, I AC 20 Shot to the arm, and it did not register any damage on the paper doll. Up until now reading this thread I would of just ignored it thinking to myself it must of been a fluke. But remembering past games I never made a connection to the hit to damage on a spider with AC 20 or other high hitting weapons.

Hopefully the inconsistencies will be worked out being that MWO is now live and non beta.

[AssaultPig]

all you people defending spiders are a ******* laugh. I posted this video in another thread, but just for fun here it is again (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't make it):



is the projectile hitting the target not supposed to indicate a hit either?

The problem is server side hit detection; for most mechs aiming at the spot an enemy was .1-.2 seconds ago isn't a big problem, because you'll probably still hit them. But spiders are small and fast and fit JJs, so they exacerbate the problems caused by doing hit detection at the server level.

I'm sure everybody's been in a game where one spider survives combined fire from 3-4 other mechs for a mildly ridiculous amount of time. That doesn't happen because the spider pilot is some type of elite player or because all those other pilots were windowlickers who couldn't aim. It happens because hit detection on spiders is currently ******. Every light mech has this problem to some extent, but even most light mechs are much larger than spiders.

I don't expect that they'll be removed from the game, but their hitboxes should be increased in size until they match commandos', at least until PGI gets a better handle on HSR. And putting one on trial in the state they're in is flagrantly ******* dumb.

Edited by AssaultPig, 07 October 2013 - 11:19 PM.

[Wispsy]

AssaultPig, on 07 October 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

all you people defending spiders are a ******* laugh. I posted this video in another thread, but just for fun here it is again (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't make it):



is the projectile hitting the target not supposed to indicate a hit either?

The problem is server side hit detection; for most mechs aiming at the spot an enemy was .1-.2 seconds ago isn't a big problem, because you'll probably still hit them. But spiders are small and fast and fit JJs, so they exacerbate the problems caused by doing hit detection at the server level.

I'm sure everybody's been in a game where one spider survives combined fire from 3-4 other mechs for a mildly ridiculous amount of time. That doesn't happen because the spider pilot is some type of elite player or because all those other pilots were windowlickers who couldn't aim. It happens because hit detection on spiders is currently ******. Every light mech has this problem to some extent, but even most light mechs are much larger than spiders.

I don't expect that they'll be removed from the game, but their hitboxes should be increased in size until they match commandos', at least until PGI gets a better handle on HSR. And putting one on trial in the state they're in is flagrantly ******* dumb.

Guess you cannot read threads very well...Why do you think this is an issue to do with the Spider when there are videos of multiple shots missing almost every type of mech on the forums now?

[GalaxyBluestar]

AssaultPig, on 07 October 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

all you people defending spiders are a ******* laugh. I posted this video in another thread, but just for fun here it is again (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't make it):



is the projectile hitting the target not supposed to indicate a hit either?

The problem is server side hit detection; for most mechs aiming at the spot an enemy was .1-.2 seconds ago isn't a big problem, because you'll probably still hit them. But spiders are small and fast and fit JJs, so they exacerbate the problems caused by doing hit detection at the server level.

I'm sure everybody's been in a game where one spider survives combined fire from 3-4 other mechs for a mildly ridiculous amount of time. That doesn't happen because the spider pilot is some type of elite player or because all those other pilots were windowlickers who couldn't aim. It happens because hit detection on spiders is currently ******. Every light mech has this problem to some extent, but even most light mechs are much larger than spiders.

I don't expect that they'll be removed from the game, but their hitboxes should be increased in size until they match commandos', at least until PGI gets a better handle on HSR. And putting one on trial in the state they're in is flagrantly ******* dumb.

if only commandos could find as much use as spiders... we'd really know. seriously your vid clearly illustrates the EXACT HSR problem i have {aus 250-270 ping here} not spider hitboxes. it happens to many mechs and i have to lead airpockets infront of jenners in the same manner. so i agree with wispsy this isn't a spider only problem.

Edited by GalaxyBluestar, 08 October 2013 - 12:04 AM.

[Kroete]

Wispsy, on 07 October 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Guess you cannot read threads very well...Why do you think this is an issue to do with the Spider when there are videos of multiple shots missing almost every type of mech on the forums now?

Its only personal observation about the last weeks for me.
Its not true data, but i can say after playing only trials (i collect money for my first 3 mechs),
and mostly the trial champion jenner and now the champion spider,
that i survive more often situations in the spider where the jenner would have been vaporized.

Edited by Kroete, 08 October 2013 - 12:19 AM.

[AssaultPig]

I love that you wanna jump on me for not reading the thread, when you seem unable to even read my whole post.

Yes, this is an issue that affects every mech. But as a practical matter it isn't something we notice, because if you aim for the center of mass on (say) a highlander, it's large and slow enough that even with dodgy server side hit detection you'll probably still register a hit. In this way you may "lose" a few hits that are close to the edge of the hitbox, but it's a problem that's relatively easy to solve by simply aiming better. Spiders are so small though, that the size of the area you functionally have to aim at for the server to still register a clean hit is unreasonably small. This is exacerbated by the fact that spiders run 150 and fit jump jets.

Even most other lights are large enough that they aren't too difficult to track (assuming your latency is decent.) It's high sophistry to blather on about how this is a problem that 'affects every mech,' when in reality it is by far the most noticeable w/r/t spiders. Maybe if a much-improved hit detection system were patched in tomorrow spiders would be fine! But since this game doesn't and presumably never will live in the wonderful world of client side hit detection, a different fix is necessary.

[DeaconW]

Wispsy, on 07 October 2013 - 11:52 PM, said:

Guess you cannot read threads very well...Why do you think this is an issue to do with the Spider when there are videos of multiple shots missing almost every type of mech on the forums now?

Don't be disingenuous...the issue isn't the *existence* of some type of hit detection issues on all mechs. The issue with the spider is *prevalence*. With most mechs, hit detection issues are *rare*...with the spider it is *commonplace*.

[Mehlan]

Really? You have sone actual data/numbers or is it 'butt dyno' data?

[stjobe]

Mehlan, on 08 October 2013 - 07:51 AM, said:

Really? You have sone actual data/numbers or is it 'butt dyno' data?

"Contrary to popular belief, thin air is not an accurate source of statistical data"
- Unknown

[Green Mamba]

Still waiting for the Spider Fix

[Wispsy]

DeaconW, on 08 October 2013 - 06:39 AM, said:

Don't be disingenuous...the issue isn't the *existence* of some type of hit detection issues on all mechs. The issue with the spider is *prevalence*. With most mechs, hit detection issues are *rare*...with the spider it is *commonplace*.

This is a subjective opinion... I almost never have hit detection issues with Spiders. As I have previously noted, the majority of my hit detection issues are on Victors for some reason, think it might be their jumpjets. Also did you see the Cicada video with multiple shots missing? Hell yesterday I shot a Jenner dead on as he was running towards me and multiple times other then that and he had nothing but a light yellow armour colouring. People where watching, there is no physical way some of those shots missed.

[Clit Beastwood]

Wispsy, on 08 October 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

This is a subjective opinion... I almost never have hit detection issues with Spiders. As I have previously noted, the majority of my hit detection issues are on Victors for some reason, think it might be their jumpjets. Also did you see the Cicada video with multiple shots missing? Hell yesterday I shot a Jenner dead on as he was running towards me and multiple times other then that and he had nothing but a light yellow armour colouring. People where watching, there is no physical way some of those shots missed.

Wispsy killed the {Scrap} out of my spider the other night. His shots hit just fine, then we laughed about it and specifically mentioned this thread.

Wispsy - remember?

[Ghogiel]

Wispsy, on 08 October 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

think it might be their jumpjets.

I thought so too for a while. I thought the JJ might exacerbate what I think is a desyncing issue, but I see it on every thing. I put 7 AC20 rounds onto a slow 2X RVN last night and only 2 connected.

PGI says it's like 1% of shots have issue. They are understating it by a lot imo. It's more like 3% on my average I reckon.

Edited by Ghogiel, 08 October 2013 - 11:56 AM.

[Wispsy]

Ghogiel, on 08 October 2013 - 11:49 AM, said:

I thought so too for a while. I thought the JJ might exacerbate what I think is a descending issue, but I see it on every thing. I put 7 AC20 rounds onto a slow 2X RVN last night and only 2 connected.

PGI says it's like 1% of shots have issue. They are understating it by a lot imo. It's more like 3% on my average I reckon.

Yesterday for some unknown reason seemed especially bad for my and those I was playing with. Pumped full heat from 3 incredible snipers into an Orion that survived...

[Clit Beastwood]

Wispsy, on 08 October 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

Yesterday for some unknown reason seemed especially bad for my and those I was playing with. Pumped full heat from 3 incredible snipers into an Orion that survived...

Just shoot their shoulder lump! I've been coming across lots of XL orions.

[Wispsy]

Fierostetz, on 08 October 2013 - 12:11 PM, said:

Just shoot their shoulder lump! I've been coming across lots of XL orions.

It did not survive due to spreading damage, it survived by not taking damage from very accurate shots.

[QuackAttack]

akpavker, on 03 September 2013 - 04:39 PM, said:

im very sorry to inform you of this but spiders are not ment to be able to go head to head with a atlas and win buy doing nothing more then rocking back and forward and fireing a erppc constantly....

you are blindly stupid to think otherwise!!!!!

You are correct, I use a Large Pulse Laser and terrain, water, and your teams mechs for cover to solo an Atlas

[Clit Beastwood]

QuackAttack, on 08 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

You are correct, I use a Large Pulse Laser and terrain, water, and your teams mechs for cover to solo an Atlas

And JJ turns. It absolutely infuriates the fatties!
I <3 my spider with LPL+4mg

[Clit Beastwood]

AssaultPig, on 07 October 2013 - 11:19 PM, said:

all you people defending spiders are a ******* laugh. I posted this video in another thread, but just for fun here it is again (in the interest of full disclosure, I didn't make it):



is the projectile hitting the target not supposed to indicate a hit either?

The problem is server side hit detection; for most mechs aiming at the spot an enemy was .1-.2 seconds ago isn't a big problem, because you'll probably still hit them. But spiders are small and fast and fit JJs, so they exacerbate the problems caused by doing hit detection at the server level.

I'm sure everybody's been in a game where one spider survives combined fire from 3-4 other mechs for a mildly ridiculous amount of time. That doesn't happen because the spider pilot is some type of elite player or because all those other pilots were windowlickers who couldn't aim. It happens because hit detection on spiders is currently ******. Every light mech has this problem to some extent, but even most light mechs are much larger than spiders.

I don't expect that they'll be removed from the game, but their hitboxes should be increased in size until they match commandos', at least until PGI gets a better handle on HSR. And putting one on trial in the state they're in is flagrantly ******* dumb.

Hm- reticle never flashed red, so the server never saw the hit, right?

I think the biggest frustration for people is that what YOU see, what YOUR TARGET sees, and what the SERVER sees are all different things. I was playing the other night, in my spider, and someone was complaining about hitting me repeatedly. I know who, I was trying to steal his arms - on my screen his ppc's were flying in front of me because I was jetting backwards to drop off a ledge in Tourmaline. After match, he says the PPC's were hitting me over and over, on my screen they were clean misses. He was not getting flashes of his reticle.

[stjobe]

Fierostetz, on 08 October 2013 - 02:22 PM, said:

I think the biggest frustration for people is that what YOU see, what YOUR TARGET sees, and what the SERVER sees are all different things. I was playing the other night, in my spider, and someone was complaining about hitting me repeatedly. I know who, I was trying to steal his arms - on my screen his ppc's were flying in front of me because I was jetting backwards to drop off a ledge in Tourmaline. After match, he says the PPC's were hitting me over and over, on my screen they were clean misses. He was not getting flashes of his reticle.

I generally suffer the opposite effect - I do my best to make sure my opponent misses, and on my screen his shots clearly pass to one side or the other of me, but my paperdoll flashes and I take damage.

It's most noticeable in a high-speed maneuver fight with another light, but happens with slower 'mechs as well. Especially irritating is when you time it perfect so you see the AC or PPC projectile pass in front of you but you still take damage.

Edited by stjobe, 08 October 2013 - 02:33 PM.