195 replies to this topic

[BillyM]

Spyder228, on 04 September 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

I don't think there's anything wrong with Spiders. I maintain that the issue is with general hit detection across all mechs...

^ I would expect a similar response from someone named "Spyder"

Cicada's take damage honestly, torso and legs. (not so much on the side torso's/arms)
Jenner's have a damage-magnet for a center-torso (not so much on the side torso's/arms)
Raven's have a damage-magnet for its lil-stick-legs (not so much center, side torso's or arms)

Spiders don't take damage honestly ANYWHERE. This is known and understood.

If you run one, you should feel bad, just the same as Pre-nerf Splat-cats, or 4/5PPC Stalkers, or PPC/Gauss ninnies.

For-shame... (but I don't think they need to be removed, just give them a "quirk" that makes them less mighty-mouse-ish. I'd suggest fattening up the leg hitbox like they did on the ravens)

--billyM

Edited by BillyM, 04 September 2013 - 06:46 AM.

[Spyder228]

So when a single gauss round blows through my back armor and kills me, that's not honest damage? As I said, I always have a low ping and my mechs never have any problems taking damage. High pings + broken HSR = a bad time for all.

[Rakshasa]

Curious Spider questions why you would want to disable his brethren :[

[Bors Mistral]

No amount of HSR fixes will alleviate poor aiming.

The freaking Spider has paper armour and is severely underarmed. It compensates with a thin profile. I find Spiders just as easy to nail as Jenners and Commandos, though I do mostly have a sub-50 ping.

I've spent a good amount of time piloting a Spider too. I see people aiming way off and then complain how broken the mech is. Seriously? I also see plenty of people who are decent at aiming and swat spiders with ease.

In the end, if there's really something broken - fix it. If not, please do not enlarge the hitboxes on this suitably annoying but quite underarmed mech just to placate people who can't aim.

[Marlowe Lecter]

Bors Mistral, on 04 September 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

No amount of HSR fixes will alleviate poor aiming.

The freaking Spider has paper armour and is severely underarmed. It compensates with a thin profile. I find Spiders just as easy to nail as Jenners and Commandos, though I do mostly have a sub-50 ping.

I've spent a good amount of time piloting a Spider too. I see people aiming way off and then complain how broken the mech is. Seriously? I also see plenty of people who are decent at aiming and swat spiders with ease.

In the end, if there's really something broken - fix it. If not, please do not enlarge the hitboxes on this suitably annoying but quite underarmed mech just to placate people who can't aim.

YES! I don't know how many times I've died (in a spider or other mech as I pilot a wide range of them) and been watching from some guy's cockpit and seen him fire over and over and over again BEHIND the mech's he's trying to hit.
If the targeting reticule is on the mech but its moving fast, you still won't hit it. You have to lead the fast mech you are trying to hit. The reticule has to be IN FRONT of a fast moving mech.

Now that is not saying there isn't a hit detection issue. PGI posted in this very thread saying they are looking into it. But I don't think its the hugely drastic problem that the few people QQing about make it out to be.

And a skilled light pilot should be perfectly viable against an atlas, or any other mech for that matter. This is NOT table top, where the heavies and assaults would destroy lights with impunity. In order to make lights viable options for people to play they have to be able to, with the right strategy, be able to take on other mechs. Otherwise why would anyone pilot anything other than heavy’s and assaults?

[Felio]

Marlowe Lecter, on 04 September 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

And a skilled light pilot should be perfectly viable against an atlas, or any other mech for that matter. This is NOT table top, where the heavies and assaults would destroy lights with impunity. In order to make lights viable options for people to play they have to be able to, with the right strategy, be able to take on other mechs. Otherwise why would anyone pilot anything other than heavy’s and assaults?

You're right, but it's a very unpopular opinion.

PGI has taken a game where there are expendable footsoldiers and decided to put players in them. But nobody wants to be an expendable footsoldier; that is not a good playing experience. So now they are stuck with a problem that is not fixable, not without committing some kind of Mechwarrior heresy and tossing tabletop values out the window and putting players on equal footing. (gasp)

[Rippthrough]

Marlowe Lecter, on 04 September 2013 - 10:17 AM, said:

YES! I don't know how many times I've died (in a spider or other mech as I pilot a wide range of them) and been watching from some guy's cockpit and seen him fire over and over and over again BEHIND the mech's he's trying to hit.

The amount of people that ***** about this in game makes me laugh.

When you are spectating, you see the server side version of the game, you don't see the client side with latency, for all you know, on his screen, he IS leading the mech.
If I'm on TS with some clan guys, quite often they'll tell each other how far behind they are when one of them has died so everyone can correct their aim better for latency.

Edited by Rippthrough, 04 September 2013 - 03:20 PM.

[Almond Brown]

Want to kill Spiders? Follow that Atlas that always wanders off by themselves. Spiders always find them and won't expect you. LOL

[Octantis]

I think spiders are a pain in the ***. There's a lot of stuff borked with them. I haven't played a lot since the patch.

That being said I try to be a hard counter to them. A 6 SPL jenner with all the trimmings is a great spider hunter. The lose their speed advantage and if they try to engage in the circle of death you can land enough shots they get scared and run off.

Of course I can get a bit tunnel visioned and run off into situations I shouldn't be in but getting trading my tons for a spider off the field is worth it for my team.

The SPL jenner is great until you see something with 4+ streaks. Kintaro or Cat A1 I stay far far away.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

The last time I made a similar thread about spiders the mods locked it down and threatened me. Don't mess with spiders man... PGI loves them for some reason.

[William Mountbank]

It's more that they shut down threads full of :

"QQQQ, Spider pilots are stealing my kills by not dying when I press W and mouse button 1"

[Vodrin Thales]

BillyM, on 04 September 2013 - 06:17 AM, said:

^ I would expect a similar response from someone named "Spyder"

Cicada's take damage honestly, torso and legs. (not so much on the side torso's/arms)
Jenner's have a damage-magnet for a center-torso (not so much on the side torso's/arms)
Raven's have a damage-magnet for its lil-stick-legs (not so much center, side torso's or arms)

Spiders don't take damage honestly ANYWHERE. This is known and understood.

If you run one, you should feel bad, just the same as Pre-nerf Splat-cats, or 4/5PPC Stalkers, or PPC/Gauss ninnies.

For-shame... (but I don't think they need to be removed, just give them a "quirk" that makes them less mighty-mouse-ish. I'd suggest fattening up the leg hitbox like they did on the ravens)

--billyM

The most recent patch seems to have made a major difference in hit detection, especially where spiders are concerned. I had two spider kills at 400m + last night, and in both cases it was a shot that looked as though it was perfectly placed and it scored a CT hit in both cases.

This is notable because prior to this patch most of my "good" shots on spiders looked like misses that ended up hitting. Current state seems to be much improved.

[Karazyr]

in all my time piloting a spider i have never stood still and took 2 ac 20 shots to the face, i dont know what people are on about, i die easily.

i have not witnessed the events described in this thread, so i am rather confused

[PEEFsmash]

Hit detection is more or less fixed, and Spiders now take damage. They suck total balls now, as they did before HSR got totally out of whack.

[TitanFall]

I honestly have never had a problem to hit the spider.
My ping is about 130 ...

[Shadey99]

Felio, on 04 September 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

PGI has taken a game where there are expendable footsoldiers and decided to put players in them. But nobody wants to be an expendable footsoldier; that is not a good playing experience. So now they are stuck with a problem that is not fixable, not without committing some kind of Mechwarrior heresy and tossing tabletop values out the window and putting players on equal footing. (gasp)

Erm... Nothing in TT even ever made them expendable, you had to play different but lights were viable against other mechs. Heck most pilots in lore started off in lights. I seem to recall in the fuzzy hazy history from the late 80s that the Grey Death legion started with a Locust, a couple Stingers or Wasps, and a Wolverine or Griffin. The mechs may get smashed pretty well in a drawn out fight, but TT balance was usually that assaults dominated everything else because of sheer firepower (So you would run away if you could), heavies were almost as bad... Though groups of smaller machines could take down heavies given good tactics or time.

Even in the first Battletech Online (in the days of Genie when we played in DOS) light mechs were viable against other mechs (usually by backbiting and harrassing). In fact I started playing in a Locust back then. In mechwarrior 1's netmech I used to teach people who to fight by taking a light against any mech they wanted. And during and after the fight I would make suggestions, give tips, and critique. It was odd if I lost even against massive machines like the Daishi.

I think alot of people have strange ideas about lore and TT.

[Symbiodinium]

I pilot Spiders 90% of the time, and since this week's patch I have noticed I've been getting hit more often. I've had to change my tactics a bit, I can still run and cause havoc against 1-3 mechs but I'll probably get shredded running through larger groups. That could happen before, but seems more common now.

[Clit Beastwood]

Symbiodinium, on 05 September 2013 - 02:45 PM, said:

I pilot Spiders 90% of the time, and since this week's patch I have noticed I've been getting hit more often. I've had to change my tactics a bit, I can still run and cause havoc against 1-3 mechs but I'll probably get shredded running through larger groups. That could happen before, but seems more common now.

I just tried 3 rounds, total, before giving up. (in my spider)
My FIRST drop, a teammate alpha'd me in the back, asked "did it detect those hits?" and I quickly died.
My Second drop, running across river city, I got stuck on a random patch of concrete and was quickly killed.
My third drop, I don't know what happened, but it was me vs. 8 teammates, with a wacky jenner embedded in a wall in tourmaline. After several minutes of running around taking potshots at the 4 other lights left on the team, I just let the poor jenner in the wall kill me.
Bored. Didn't even get to do much fighting - after those first two drops, I was just over it. Some days you feel like playing, other days you don't. Zero penalties for FF is frustrating (even a box at the end of the match showing "FF damage" or deducting FF damage dealt from their damage total or something... but then getting stuck on FLAT ground. sigh. I need to take a week or two break from the game - I'm getting burned out.

Edited by Fierostetz, 05 September 2013 - 04:15 PM.

[BillyM]

...best part of it is, I was the "wacky jenner" stuck in the wall. Know those half-dozen ppc-shots you took at me in G5 that weren't landing because the server didn't know where I was? THAT is exactly how everyone who was shooting at you in your spider for the last few months felt.

Take your break then come back and pilot something not broken...

--billyM

[Drollzy]

Matthew Craig, on 03 September 2013 - 08:07 AM, said:

Spiders are not being ignored, there are some major improvements to host state rewind in today's patch so we are waiting to see the impact of those changes before any hit-box adjustments are made. Please feel free to comment later today after the patch if you still see the same issues.

Still no change since the patch... Hit the spider and still feels like 50-50 hit reg. A spider should not be able to run around a group of med - aslt mechs for as long as they do and survive. Cicadas and jenners even commandos don't survive long trying it but the spider does. Hit animation and evrything else works just no hit reg... Its getting beyond a joke so sick of noob spider pilots walking around invulnerable. Was so looking forward to this patch to have the problem fixed but got diddly squat...

disappointing....