490 replies to this topic

[KharnZor]

keith, on 03 September 2013 - 05:48 PM, said:

i would like to see the devs snipe lights moving 151 kph with the new guass. 2 sec is not enough time to track light properly. the man who brought us ghost heat knows best. <S>

Sorry man its not that hard. Takes some time adjusting to the new mechanic sure but it can still be done.

[Milocinia]

We talk about respecting staff and whatnot but I'm afraid I feel so strongly about this patch (along with previous poor changes) that I'm going to have to say that you should be removed from the team Paul. I'm sorry to say something so harsh but I believe your work is leading this game inexorably down a unrecoverable path. I could dress it up in any number of ways but that is how I feel and I'll say it as such.

You would think this patch has screwed over my entire mech bay, well it hasn't. I don't use PPCs on any of my mechs and I use the gauss on only one of them... or at least I did. I have a dual LBX 'phract, a dual UAC Jager, AC/10 Victor and an Orion which I'm working to build around an AC/20. I had a Highlander with a gauss. It had no jump jets, no PPCs, it wasn't a slice of poptarting cheese.

All of the ballistics weapons have a use of some kind, advantages and drawbacks. Granted the low heat and long range of the gauss put it in a strange position between the AC/10 and 20 but the low HP and high risk of explosion did balance it out somewhat. Anyone who'd played the game a few times and knew the hardpoints of their opponents would disable that gauss first.

It was definitely a weapon suited more towards a medium/heavy, especially as they would stand a bit more chance of maneouvering away from shots directed at their gauss. It also suited the ducking and diving aspects of striking and sniping. Most assaults get stripped of their gauss pretty quickly in a brawl.

Now the gauss simply has no role. Charging it up makes long range shots a lot less reliable and at closer ranges you have much less chance to hit light mechs. It has a bit more HP but still explodes when destroyed. For the tonnage required to carry one, it's now borderline useless.

The funny thing is we TOLD you not to nerf the gauss like this because it wasn't necessary. We TOLD you to put the mechanic onto PPCs because it would suit them better as a projectile type energy weapon but not just because of that, the gameplay itself and the required nerfs would have suited it better.

Do you just not listen at all Paul? Are feedback and discussion threads like this one even worth it? Sometimes I wonder if you read all the posts and all you see is:

Quote

Sometimes I wonder if we might as well just write that in the future because you sure as hell don't listen to pretty most of what we tell you and you go off doing your own things. A developer's vision (and their pride) are one thing but you need to find a balance between what you want to achieve and the feedback you're getting. You acknowledge there's something to fix yet instead of listening to many of the credible suggestions, you come up with your own ludicrous idea, the community tells you not to implement it, you add it anyway. You have a dreadful case of Developer's Arrogance, you really must sit there saying that the players know nothing, thinking that we will ignore it and like it after it's put in, get used to it. Stop it Paul, I've seen this development arrogance and ignorance of the playerbase destroy many games before their time. Twice I've worked alongside devs who had a huge case of Developer's Arrogance. One said "The players are wrong, they don't know what they want". I told him to listen to the feedback and find a happy medium but he didn't listen. His decisions killed the game. The other wanted to add various convoluted mechanics which were just downright confusing and difficult for even Einstein to balance but he added them anyway, it killed the game.

Do yourself, this game and the players a favour, please with all due respect, put a firm lid on your Developer's Arrogance. If you can't do that then like I said at the start you should be removed from the team.

I hope this isn't deemed to be disrespectful. It's strong but it's fair and most of all it's the harsh truth. It'll probably be deleted anyway.

Edited by Kyocera, 03 September 2013 - 05:52 PM.

[Loxx]

The Gauss rifle's unique factor was that the ammo didn't explode but the weapon did which is what kept it in line with other AC weapons. The weapon exploded because the capacitor coils were always charged. With this change, they now have to "charge up", does this mean you will be removing the explosive possibility and damage of this weapon since the coils now discharge and don't automatically recharge?

[Asmosis]

DocBach, on 03 September 2013 - 04:45 PM, said:

will they be fine when uac10s and uac20s launch? Maybe a little foresight to consider when adjusting uac mechanics.

I would expect higher caliber AC's to have higher jam rates. heck i'd expect the UAC20 to have a jam rate closer to 70% given how deadly two of them would be.

15% does seem a bit low for the UAC5 though, its not that big a problem right now since only a 65T mech can fit more than two of them, but if we get an assault mech that can fit 5-6 (or 4 with proper ammo capacity) it will literally MELT anything in its way. already do that with a 4uac5 jagger.

[Mechteric]

I'm ok with the new Gauss mechanic, as something was needed to help emulate that BT minimum range rule as a balancer, the only complaint I have is that the ~1 second window you have to fire seems a bit short. I'd recommend 2 or 2.5 seconds before the charge dissipates after being ready to fire.

[Karyudo ds]

Loxx, on 03 September 2013 - 05:56 PM, said:

The Gauss rifle's unique factor was that the ammo didn't explode but the weapon did which is what kept it in line with other AC weapons. The weapon exploded because the capacitor coils were always charged. With this change, they now have to "charge up", does this mean you will be removing the explosive possibility and damage of this weapon since the coils now discharge and don't automatically recharge?

Removing the explosiveness would technically be another step backwards considering in Battletech it went boom AND had a minimum range. I don't think they were trying to keep it in line with the AC weapons, just make it different in the way it was originally. I would imagine the coils would have always had a charge, maybe not enough to fire but enough that throwing a rock into it would break something. Though I'm not expert and I don't think Battletech ever gave a real explanation to the minimum range.

[Kosmonaut]

Karyudo ds, on 03 September 2013 - 06:07 PM, said:

Removing the explosiveness would technically be another step backwards considering in Battletech it went boom AND had a minimum range. I don't think they were trying to keep it in line with the AC weapons, just make it different in the way it was originally. I would imagine the coils would have always had a charge, maybe not enough to fire but enough that throwing a rock into it would break something. Though I'm not expert and I don't think Battletech ever gave a real explanation to the minimum range.

Read Tactical Operations. For a long time now there's been an optional rule in Battletech that the capacitor can be switched off to remove the chance of an explosion from a critical hit. If they want to say that's the default in MWO and the capacitor has to be manually charged before each shot, fine. Remove the explosion chance when it's not being charged. As far as the minimum range it was just a way to simulate the difficulty of hitting a close-up target with a sniper rifle (and make it so the Gauss rifle didn't completely overshadow autocannons, but that was a limited success since standard autocannons are close to useless on the tabletop).

Edited by Kosmonaut, 03 September 2013 - 06:16 PM.

[Kosmonaut]

Also: if this patch was designed to discourage boating, how does forcing Gauss into its own group help? Congratulations, now every sniper has a button dedicated to Gauss rifles and therefore an incentive to squeeze as many as possible into that group.

Edited by Kosmonaut, 03 September 2013 - 06:34 PM.

[VikingN1nja]

HEAVYMETAL IS RUINED!

Edited by omegaorgun, 03 September 2013 - 06:29 PM.

[Devils Advocate]

Helsbane, on 03 September 2013 - 03:32 PM, said:

The charge mechanic added to the gauss rifle did absolutely nothing. All I have to do is lift my middle finger while pressing my index finger. It's a simple finger rolling action. My ERPPCs and Gauss are still firing together, just as they always have. Basically, it did NOTHING to uncouple them aside from make me prep for targets by a fraction of a second instead of twitch shooting with them. If anything it helped me take a split second the get my lead right for targets at range, making my 2xERPPC / Gauss build even more accurate. It didn't even affect my jump sniping. Charge on the way up, let off the jump jets, then the gauss trigger.

Foolish and ineffective change, same as always. At least your track record is untarnished in that respect...

I think you're confused. It might not break poptarting but it ups the skill requirement to land your shots and it delays your entire alpha on the ground by nearly a second. That's a huge deal for players darting between cover or popping out for a single shot at you. Gotta play the game more than once before you hop on the hatewagon. Peruse the rest of the forums and see what other people think.

Kyocera, on 03 September 2013 - 05:52 PM, said:

We talk about respecting staff and whatnot but I'm afraid I feel so strongly about this patch (along with previous poor changes) that I'm going to have to say that you should be removed from the team Paul. I'm sorry to say something so harsh but I believe your work is leading this game inexorably down a unrecoverable path. I could dress it up in any number of ways but that is how I feel and I'll say it as such.

You would think this patch has screwed over my entire mech bay, well it hasn't. I don't use PPCs on any of my mechs and I use the gauss on only one of them... or at least I did. I have a dual LBX 'phract, a dual UAC Jager, AC/10 Victor and an Orion which I'm working to build around an AC/20. I had a Highlander with a gauss. It had no jump jets, no PPCs, it wasn't a slice of poptarting cheese.

All of the ballistics weapons have a use of some kind, advantages and drawbacks. Granted the low heat and long range of the gauss put it in a strange position between the AC/10 and 20 but the low HP and high risk of explosion did balance it out somewhat. Anyone who'd played the game a few times and knew the hardpoints of their opponents would disable that gauss first.

It was definitely a weapon suited more towards a medium/heavy, especially as they would stand a bit more chance of maneouvering away from shots directed at their gauss. It also suited the ducking and diving aspects of striking and sniping. Most assaults get stripped of their gauss pretty quickly in a brawl.

Now the gauss simply has no role. Charging it up makes long range shots a lot less reliable and at closer ranges you have much less chance to hit light mechs. It has a bit more HP but still explodes when destroyed. For the tonnage required to carry one, it's now borderline useless.

The funny thing is we TOLD you not to nerf the gauss like this because it wasn't necessary. We TOLD you to put the mechanic onto PPCs because it would suit them better as a projectile type energy weapon but not just because of that, the gameplay itself and the required nerfs would have suited it better.

Do you just not listen at all Paul? Are feedback and discussion threads like this one even worth it? Sometimes I wonder if you read all the posts and all you see is:



Sometimes I wonder if we might as well just write that in the future because you sure as hell don't listen to pretty most of what we tell you and you go off doing your own things. A developer's vision (and their pride) are one thing but you need to find a balance between what you want to achieve and the feedback you're getting. You acknowledge there's something to fix yet instead of listening to many of the credible suggestions, you come up with your own ludicrous idea, the community tells you not to implement it, you add it anyway. You have a dreadful case of Developer's Arrogance, you really must sit there saying that the players know nothing, thinking that we will ignore it and like it after it's put in, get used to it. Stop it Paul, I've seen this development arrogance and ignorance of the playerbase destroy many games before their time. Twice I've worked alongside devs who had a huge case of Developer's Arrogance. One said "The players are wrong, they don't know what they want". I told him to listen to the feedback and find a happy medium but he didn't listen. His decisions killed the game. The other wanted to add various convoluted mechanics which were just downright confusing and difficult for even Einstein to balance but he added them anyway, it killed the game.

Do yourself, this game and the players a favour, please with all due respect, put a firm lid on your Developer's Arrogance. If you can't do that then like I said at the start you should be removed from the team.

I hope this isn't deemed to be disrespectful. It's strong but it's fair and most of all it's the harsh truth. It'll probably be deleted anyway.

This is wrong. Like just 90-95% wrong.

The biggest thing here is that the Gauss projectile goes 60% faster. If you can't hit a target easier with that kind of a buff you couldn't hit a target standing still before this patch. This is user error and nobody else's. Then you just say a bunch of nonsense about how you represent the entire community and and the game is dead or whatever. This is the most favorably received patch in months. Get over yourself.

Edited by Devils Advocate, 03 September 2013 - 06:41 PM.

[pantherzero]

3pv ridge peek line up the shot hit toggle view hit forward / jj flick fire macro just before cresting, target shot goes off, win ? nice buff to 3pv there =]

[Ceesa]

I took the gauss out for a spin, and I'm ok with the changes.

HOWEVER, I would REALLY LIKE there to be a strong associated SOUND EFFECT that will let you know when the gauss has charged up. There were quite a few times when I thought I'd had the button held down for long enough, only to release it and see nothing happen. A quick beep sounding in the cockpit would be fine, but I really would like something clearly audible.

Thanks.

[Ixion]

My experience with the gauss change so far is that its pretty easy to pick up, it will just take a bit of experience to get my timing adjusted. I find the dev's statement confusing though- it says that its a sniper weapon that will be harder to use at close range but still doable... that's exactly the opposite of what happens. Adjusting to close range firing took less than a minute- click, wait for sound, release, while continuing firing other weapon groups as normal. Although I do think the sound effect itself isn't good, it needs to be clear when its charged, and the current effect combined with other game sounds is tricky- sometimes it sounds charged and nothing happens. Sniping is what changed- no matter how fast you can line up a shot the delay means that targets that pop up then disappear have a good chance of avoiding damage. Its still a good weapon, the effect is just the exact opposite of what they said.

Edited by Ixion, 03 September 2013 - 07:09 PM.

[Scratx]

Hellcat420, on 03 September 2013 - 05:41 PM, said:

they wont be one shotting anyone, that is a ridiculous statement. and if you are worried about people taking two, ***** about the mechlab, that is where most of the problems with the game stem from.

Hunchback IIC

[Talrich]

I found the changes interesting.

Speeding up gauss while making it "harder to fire" was an interesting idea. I found it still could be an effective weapon, but I found it less fun, and I don't think it was as well implemented as it needs to be.

Regarding the guass desync, I heard a sound effect for it charging up, but there didn't seem to be another sound for when it discharged and stopped being able to fire. That made releasing the trigger a bit too random; a problem that could be fixed if there were better visualization and improved sound effects.

It's nice to see the PPC return to intial heat, as has been so long advocated on the forums. Thanks for listening to that feedback. It will be interesting to see if it's as successful as its advocates have suggested. It might even reduce the need for ghost heat.

I like the stricter PPC minimum range, but find the 100% damage at 90m and 0% damage at 89m is a bit silly. Perhaps the drop-off could go from 90m to 60m just to make it less of a magic distance?

Oh, and it would still be great to get 5+ player games in as well as hardcore mode for the people that don't want to play against third person.

[Asmosis]

hm didnt realise they also sped up the projectile in conjunction with the charge up, that makes gauss pretty deadly. Still easy to use at long range, and hard to use at close range. Different speed means PPC/Gauss projectiles wont arrive at the same time (I'm assuming they are different velocity now?) which means pinpoint alpha is gone unless its a stationary target, or the pilot has some decent aiming skill.

overall good change. Also exploding gauss was removed with the patch.

[Sean von Steinike]

Good to know I guess.

[Alilua]

ppc changes really hurt the awesome, I think it needs a special heat reduction for some models that carry them.

Assault walking animations seem off, like they are in a mad sprint when they are only moving 48kph.

Gauss change is actually nice.

[xengk]

I think UAC are in a good place right now, 15% jam rate makes them very reliable.
If you still want to balance them further, possible introduce recoil to UAC so will be much more difficult to double-tap a single component, the bigger the UAC the harder the recoil. This might solve the problem of bigger UAC being too OP in the future.
However, this also throw off the aim of all weapon sharing the same crossfire with UAC(torso or arm).

Flamer could use abit more max range(90m?) and cause heat faster but maybe drop the damage to 0.5.
Making them disruptive weapon instead of damage dealer.

WNxFireDrake, on 03 September 2013 - 06:59 PM, said:

I took the gauss out for a spin, and I'm ok with the changes.

HOWEVER, I would REALLY LIKE there to be a strong associated SOUND EFFECT that will let you know when the gauss has charged up. There were quite a few times when I thought I'd had the button held down for long enough, only to release it and see nothing happen. A quick beep sounding in the cockpit would be fine, but I really would like something clearly audible.

Thanks.

There already is a sound associated with GR charging, that "wuuuuuupp" sound.
Also the box next to your cross hair will turn green when you finish charging.

Just need to chill out when trying to snipe.
Im using it on my BJ1, 1x GR 3x MLaz, and starting to get used to the charge up timing.
Also, do get the Advanced Zoom module, it allow me to snipe accurately up to 1000m.

[Asaru]

I'm not a big fan of the gauss change.

However it would be much more tolerable if there was a better signal as to when the charge-up was complete. During battle I couldn't always hear when my shot was ready. Maybe also add a visual aid to the HUD that would indicate that the shot was ready. Something a little better than the little box changing color on the crosshairs.

Edited by Asaru, 03 September 2013 - 08:49 PM.