113 replies to this topic

[Orzorn]

The solution to keeping 2 ERPPC + Gauss is to simply use your Gauss as your "main" weapon (That is, the weapon you fire most). Used to, due to the speed and 20 damage of the dual ERPPC combo, you used those as the "main" weapon system. Now, due to the speed and no heat of the GAuss, you use that as the "main" weapon, which also lets you cool down from the dual ERPPC heat geneartion (takes my 12 DHS Cataphract to 50% heat in a salvo).

As for the rest of the thread, UAC/5s are definitely the go-to weapon for pure DPS.

LLAS won't be nearly as worthwhile as they once were until Ghost Heat is gone.

[Villz]

Orzorn, on 05 September 2013 - 07:26 AM, said:

The solution to keeping 2 ERPPC + Gauss is to simply use your Gauss as your "main" weapon (That is, the weapon you fire most). Used to, due to the speed and 20 damage of the dual ERPPC combo, you used those as the "main" weapon system. Now, due to the speed and no heat of the GAuss, you use that as the "main" weapon, which also lets you cool down from the dual ERPPC heat geneartion (takes my 12 DHS Cataphract to 50% heat in a salvo).

As for the rest of the thread, UAC/5s are definitely the go-to weapon for pure DPS.

LLAS won't be nearly as worthwhile as they once were until Ghost Heat is gone.

i think if they were to be set as less damage but no ghost heat
they would be balanced in line

[Kaldor]

Villz, on 05 September 2013 - 05:26 AM, said:

i think lasers are fine ..... u ever seen how fast a 6ll stalker can take the shoulder of an XL'd cataphract lol ?

Even a 4 LL build is pretty potent if you catch someone not paying attention.

[Khobai]

Quote

i think if they were to be set as less damage but no ghost heat
they would be balanced in line

I disagree. Even if LLs did less damage, being able to fire 6 of them into the same location, would be far from balanced.

The whole reason for the ghost heat penalty is so you have to fire them 2/2/2, which causes the damage to spread out considerably more.

Ghost heat is a poor game mechanic, but you cant just remove it without first coming up with a better fix for pinpoint alphas. As contrived as Ghost heat is, it still does what its intended to do: stops you from firing all 6 of your lasers at the same time.

Edited by Khobai, 05 September 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Not much has changed, in my opinion, with the patch. I never ran the PPC/Gauss combo because it was just full of cheese. Effective, but there comes a point where a build just makes you feel dirty. I moved to an ERPPC+2x UAC5 combo but, while the damage was nice, the downsides to the jamming, even when alternating weapons, was still annoying. I went back to my 2x PPC+AC10 combo (I've been in that since the Victor launched and even back with the Highlander) and am toying with a 2x PPC+AC20 combo. Double Lrg Lasers + UAC5 seems interesting so I might check that out, as well. The point is, I don't have any issue with aiming the slower PPCs and the heat doesn't really bother me either because I've applied the tonnage differences to more heat sinks and I don't have any issue with watching my heat. I find it funny, though, that so many people were up in arms with the PPC changes the day that they shipped. If the bulk of the people playing the game right now had played at Beta release, or before, they'd know what is actually hard about aiming a ballistic weapon.



PS> If they would implement heat based penalties, they could do away with the ghost heat and be done with it. The idea should be to put heat management into the hands of the player instead of forcing heat issues and learning curves on them.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 05 September 2013 - 09:15 AM.

[Villz]

Trauglodyte, on 05 September 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Not much has changed, in my opinion, with the patch. I never ran the PPC/Gauss combo because it was just full of cheese. Effective, but there comes a point where a build just makes you feel dirty. I moved to an ERPPC+2x UAC5 combo but, while the damage was nice, the downsides to the jamming, even when alternating weapons, was still annoying. I went back to my 2x PPC+AC10 combo (I've been in that since the Victor launched and even back with the Highlander) and am toying with a 2x PPC+AC20 combo. Double Lrg Lasers + UAC5 seems interesting so I might check that out, as well. The point is, I don't have any issue with aiming the slower PPCs and the heat doesn't really bother me either because I've applied the tonnage differences to more heat sinks and I don't have any issue with watching my heat. I find it funny, though, that so many people were up in arms with the PPC changes the day that they shipped. If the bulk of the people playing the game right now had played at Beta release, or before, they'd know what is actually hard about aiming a ballistic weapon.



PS> If they would implement heat based penalties, they could do away with the ghost heat and be done with it. The idea should be to put heat management into the hands of the player instead of forcing heat issues and learning curves on them.

So old cheese was to cheesy but new cheese is cheesy too but ok

lol lottery rng weapons atleast it wasnt luck based with ppc

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I disagree. Even if LLs did less damage, being able to fire 6 of them into the same location, would be far from balanced.

The whole reason for the ghost heat penalty is so you have to fire them 2/2/2, which causes the damage to spread out considerably more.

Ghost heat is a poor game mechanic, but you cant just remove it without first coming up with a better fix for pinpoint alphas. As contrived as Ghost heat is, it still does what its intended to do: stops you from firing all 6 of your lasers at the same time.

Balance the weapons performance then heaps u can to change it. Fact is uac is a truely skilless weapon almost as bad as LRM's hopefully they get the nerf bat faster than it took for ppc's.

[New Day]

Kaldor, on 05 September 2013 - 08:22 AM, said:

Even *insert any decent build here* is pretty potent if you catch someone not paying attention.

fixd

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 09 September 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Fact is uac is a truely skilless weapon

LLs require even less skill than UAC/5s. They hit instantly so you dont even need to lead the target.

Actually, all weapons in MWO are low skill cap. Any monkey can aim their weapons at an enemy mech and pull the trigger. Where skill factors in, is not in aiming your weapons, but rather positioning your mech so you can deal damage effectively, while minimizing the damage you take in return.

[Villz]

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

LLs require even less skill than UAC/5s. They hit instantly so you dont even need to lead the target.

Actually, all weapons in MWO are low skill cap. Any monkey can aim their weapons at an enemy mech and pull the trigger. Where skill factors in, is not in aiming your weapons, but rather positioning your mech so you can deal damage effectively, while minimizing the damage you take in return.

You certainly talk the talk c u in CW and walk the walk ;-)

[UBCslayer]

Hey Villz, a good commentary about the changes to the meta. I too agree that this is the best patch PGI has ever pushed out in terms of game balance. In reference to what you said in game chat today, I think there was a bit of a mis-understanding... My comment in our twitch stream that I'm sure you were referring to was this one : "it will be interesting to see how the changes to PPC/Gauss effect DV8's gameplay, they may actually have to learn how to play the game." Now I realize this made me sound like a {Richard Cameron} (especially the learn to play the game part), and I apologize for that, but I do stand by the intent of the comment. What I meant is that perhaps you guys may actually have to bring something other than an entire team of PPC/Gauss jump sniper 3-D's to competitive matches now. Oh yeah, and I may have made a joke about Peefsmash, but I think that was in regards to something completely different and I think he has heard a lot worse from a lot of people so I don't think it will bother him. Edit: did the filter really just change d.ick to "Richard Cameron"?

Edited by UBCslayer, 05 September 2013 - 11:09 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You certainly talk the talk c u in CW and walk the walk ;-)

not sure what youre blabbing on about. im not talking the talk, im stating the facts, and the facts are lasers do not have to lead targets like ballistics. that makes lasers more intuitive and easier to aim. thats the simple truth.

I think what you meant to say was that UACs are overpowered weapons. which I completely agree with.

[Trauglodyte]

Villz, on 05 September 2013 - 10:39 AM, said:

So old cheese was to cheesy but new cheese is cheesy too but ok

lol lottery rng weapons atleast it wasnt luck based with ppc

I've been using PPCs' since '92. What can I say? I don't use them cause someone told me that they were awesome. I use them cause it is what I like. I used them with no HSR against rubberbanding lights when they travelled at pre-2000m/s speed and I'll use them now. But yes, I guess my cheese wasn't so cheesy before but is now the new cheese.

I think, Khobai, that he's just saying that he'll see you in CW and will see how you do versus him. I could be wrong but that is how it sounds.

Edited by Trauglodyte, 05 September 2013 - 12:20 PM.

[PEEFsmash]

UBCslayer, on 05 September 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Oh yeah, and I may have made a joke about Peefsmash, but I think that was in regards to something completely different and I think he has heard a lot worse from a lot of people so I don't think it will bother him. Edit: did the filter really just change d.ick to "Richard Cameron"?

The funny part was where you guys and 228 think that it means that DV8 is "bad" or "can't play now" when myself, a strictly light pilot, got killed when playing a double gauss Cataphract which I had never played before in my life, while a guy on 228 was stream cheating and relaying my exact build, health, and position to the other team, while the two other DV8 guys in the game weren't using their best builds, and they were having their information given to the enemy as well.

Is that really where you guys get your pride from? You think killing my double gauss Cataphract shitass build says anything about DV8 or anything about DV8's jumpsniping or anything about how DV8 plays now? It doesn't say anything about us, but it says a bunch about ya'll.

The BEST part is where you guys start exchanging stories about me that never happened. "PEEF said 'come kill me' then I did ahahah" or "PEEF told me he was really mad about the new patch because it took away his PPC+Gauss! All of DV8 is mad!" I have said NOTHING except positive things about this patch. I said nothing about "come kill me" to Deadfire.

I do appreciate that you have elevated me to the celebrity status of making stuff up about me in order to sound cool. That's flattering.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 05 September 2013 - 01:25 PM.

[Villz]

i honestly dont know why your trying to justify yourself to [redacted] also stop posting offtopic drama in my balance thread ty

Edited by miSs, 06 September 2013 - 08:34 AM.

[Jesus Box]

Damn that's some good music in that video. Give me a list of every song you used in a PM please. I want that stuff. Electronic music is where it's at. I hate videos with stupid rock music.

Edited by Jesus Box, 06 September 2013 - 12:41 AM.

[LORD TSARKON]

StarScream and PGI Agree..... PPCs really needed a Nerf.... Because of this:


http://www.youtube.c...E0f7j_T2s#t=342

Edited by LORD TSARKON, 06 September 2013 - 01:45 AM.

[Villz]

Jesus Box, on 06 September 2013 - 12:38 AM, said:

Damn that's some good music in that video. Give me a list of every song you used in a PM please. I want that stuff. Electronic music is where it's at. I hate videos with stupid rock music.

Oh why sir the music is listed in the description on the youtube channel.

Our friend from tastynetworks hooked this one up

[Villz]

Khobai, on 05 September 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

I disagree. Even if LLs did less damage, being able to fire 6 of them into the same location, would be far from balanced.

The whole reason for the ghost heat penalty is so you have to fire them 2/2/2, which causes the damage to spread out considerably more.

Ghost heat is a poor game mechanic, but you cant just remove it without first coming up with a better fix for pinpoint alphas. As contrived as Ghost heat is, it still does what its intended to do: stops you from firing all 6 of your lasers at the same time.

its called a beam duration herp

[Khobai]

Quote

its called a beam duration herp

If beam duration actually worked to balance LLs there would be no reason to give them ghost heat in the first place. Derp.

The entire reason we have ghost heat is so six LL stalkers have to fire their lasers in three groups of two rather than being able to fire all six at once. What that does is spread out the damage much more than beam duration ever did.

[Villz]

Khobai, on 06 September 2013 - 05:30 AM, said:

If beam duration actually worked to balance LLs there would be no reason to give them ghost heat in the first place. Derp.

The entire reason we have ghost heat is so six LL stalkers have to fire their lasers in three groups of two rather than being able to fire all six at once. What that does is spread out the damage much more than beam duration ever did.

so if it doesnt do the job change it not rocket science