123 replies to this topic

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Viktor Drake, on 05 September 2013 - 12:50 PM, said:

There is nothing perfect about it. The only reason it is so common now is that PGI keeps reducing our options.

People see them as good, PGI nerfs, People don't see them as good anymore, People find another weapon to replace them

Thread in a nutshell.

[Tincan Nightmare]

Dedzone, on 07 September 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

I use a 3x UAC/5 Ilya build and it rocks. But you know what I DONT do? I don't go running out into the open so everyone, esp. the 3x UAC boat can rip me the shreds. In a very good game I have done 1200+dmg. In a bad game, I've done 60. And no, I have never used a marco in my life.

A weapon only shoots things. Its the pilot behind the controls who decides how long it lives.

Learn to pilot your mech and even a 3x UAC boat isn't of much use. Stop blaming the game for everything that happens and start looking in the mirror. I'll be damned if I'm going to let this game become WOW online simply because whiners like you think they should kill everything in a few shots and own the world and be able to tank 12 mechs shooting them!
If you are truly that bad of a pilot, I might suggest a different game if you aren't willing to put the effort in to become better.

So you start your post explaining how you use the weapon and it is very powerful, able to 'rip you to shreds' and people getting over 1200 points of damage with it, then attack the OP for whining that he wants an insta-kill weapon and his whining will ruin the game? Oh, and then the oh so cliché 'L2P' comment that everyone throws out, as if everyone who posts on this forum runs there mechs into walls and shoots at the sky during matches. You just gotta love that type of arrogance and hubris, assuming anyone who disagrees with you must be a poor player. Anytime weapon balance is brought up, its usually the 'don't stand in the open' line, which basically assumes that the whole match should be people playing whack a mole, popping in and out of cover. So MWO should devolve into WWI trench warfare, simple attrition? The biggest problem is that people are L2P, and gravitating to weapons that perform the best, which results in the FOTM. That is entirely L2P, and why we have seen a sudden upsurge in use of UAC's since PPC's and Gauss were nerfed. That doesn't mean UAC's shouldn't be more correctly balanced in regards to keeping other weapons competitive.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I still pick 2xac2+2xac5 ctf over 3xuac5 jager any time...and I pick anything with LRMs over uac boat anytime

[A banana in the tailpipe]

If the UAC5 didn't shred mechs in seconds this debate wouldn't be still going on. I love a single on my BJ-1, but when mechs boat UAC5s it goes way over the top. Seems like an easy fix for PGI to deal with the boating issue... but that's like asking a genie for more wishes.

[MrZakalwe]

lockwoodx, on 08 September 2013 - 03:24 AM, said:

If the UAC5 didn't shred mechs in seconds this debate wouldn't be still going on. I love a single on my BJ-1, but when mechs boat UAC5s it goes way over the top. Seems like an easy fix for PGI to deal with the boating issue... but that's like asking a genie for more wishes.

If a low burst DPS weapon is OP when boated that means it's DPS is too high for its weight.

I'm not sure if this is the case with UAC5s- time will tell.

Imagine if SRM hits all registered? Now that sh*t would be OP

[Bront]

Deathlike, on 05 September 2013 - 01:51 PM, said:

Feel free to quote me on this...

Why do I get the dreaded feeling that "ghost heat" will be applied to the UAC5?

No need. Jam mechanic eventually shuts it down, no current mechs can mount more than 3 anyway, and ghost heat breaks the quick fire mechanic.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

MrZakalwe, on 08 September 2013 - 03:30 AM, said:

If a low burst DPS weapon

You lost all credibility right there son. The entire point of an ULTRA weapon is BURST, both in canon and in practice. Please don't post again.

[Dan Nashe]

I love that PGI can "cave to all the whiners" while "ignoring all feedback."
I love the internet.


But seriously, the (2-3x) uac 5 was (almost) on par with double ac 20, gauss and (er) ppcs. (See Ilya threads).
Which were better than most weapons, although mls have a niche as filler or when boated in large nubers.

Then they nerfed double ac 20, gauss, and ppcs.

Surprise, uac 5s, far far superior to ac 5s, 2s, 10s, and 10xs is being looked at.

(Editorial note: ballistics are and were good in tt for heavier mechs only once dhs was introduced, so balance is weird where uac 5s only great on some heavier mechs)

Honestly, normalize all acs at 4 dps and it's good.
Higher alpha will balance higher weight.
(So holding down the fire button and jamming would yield 4 dps long term, but could still be 8 dps for 5 second bursts if you get lucky and don't jam). (P.s., responding to luck is a skill. A jam chance does not take skill out of the game, but the normal ac 5 should be a valid choice for people who hate random chance)

Worth a thought.
(Yeah, this would be a slight nerf to the 20 as well. But only slightly imo).

Edited by DanNashe, 10 September 2013 - 07:44 AM.

[Dr Herbert West]

The current dominance of the UAC5 was absolutely predictable to anyone who has been paying attention to weapon balance changes over the last year.

PPCs/ERPPCs started at 10/15 heat and people didn't use them that much. UAC5s and GRs were kings, with the LL, ML, SRM6, and AC20 playing second tier.

In the spring of this year, PPC/ERPPC heat was dropped to 8/12. Suddenly, people started using PPCs/ERPPCs with the UAC5s and GRs. Snipers were kept in check by 2.5 damage/missile SRM-based infighters.

Well, now we've nerfed PPC/ERPPC heat back to their early levels when GRs and UAC5s were kings. In addition, PPCs have recieved the triple-nerf of ghost heat, slow projectile speed, and hard minimum range. On top of that, the GR was nefed with Ghost-recycle, and SRMs still back to 2.5 per missile. Finally, the UAC5 was buffed.

If you know what the balance state was back in spring and immediately prior to it ... the UAC-dominated meta was absolutely obvious. PGI's balancing team should have known this.

[DocBach]

I'm thinking any change to lower massive damage all put in one location is a good thing for the long term - a game isn't fun when you die instantly from poking out from behind a ridge. Fights between battlemechs should feel more epic rather than one shot alphas being the norm. Adjusting the rate of fire on PPCs, lowering damage on LRMs/SRMs, ghost heat to take out AC/40s have done a good job at that. Odd man out is the Ultra AC, which needs a balance pass very badly as we'll have UAC10s and 20s with the Clans and if they work like the UAC5s there will be a lot of boating and uproar on the forums.

[C E Dwyer]

UncleTouchy, on 05 September 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

UAC5 is the ballistics brawler weapon of choice atm.

Rather than drop the nerf hammer on them, perhaps fix the goofy heat and weight issues with LPL, so us energy folk have an answer to the uac5.

I used the UAC5 before the buff on atlas and phfract, and it was powerfull then, putting the jam rate back to where is was, will sort it out, its way to powerfull as it stands

[Mangonel TwoSix]

I'd like to see an increasing scale for jamming.

Give it something low to start with. Maybe 5% for the second shot, the first double tap. Then jump it up, next round has a increased chance. Each following round, while the trigger is down has an increased likely hood of jamming the gun.

The numbers can be played with. But I think an increasing scale would introduce a interesting mechanic. You fire off short bursts, gun rarely James when you fire 2 or 3 rounds. Hold down the trigger like a early 90s action hero and your going to jam up.

[Der_Goetz]

Simple Trick.

Let the UAC5 start with ROF of the AC5. Hold down the trigger and it will get Faster after every shot. (Just a little). There ist a bar that rises over time to a specified point. If the point is reached. The weapons jams for a few seconds. That´s beacause of heat which is generated through the the long fire period. Stop shooting, the bar gets down.

-> better than the ac5 not overpowered and still usefull in pairs and single. And without a macro

Edited by Drake Grayson, 10 September 2013 - 08:43 AM.

[MizarPanzer]

The recent prominense of UACs are largely down to the nerfbat hitting the jump snipers. Against a jumpsniper, UAC carriers can not keep their gun on target for longer than a fraction of a second.

I'm not advocating brining 35alpha jumpsnipers back, but things with jumpjets that can sneak a high-alpha shot in before UACs can react is still a good counter (AC20 Victors).

[Joseph Mallan]

lockwoodx, on 05 September 2013 - 11:45 AM, said:

It is the perfect weapon. When boated on Jagers they will shred an atlas in full armor quicker than anyone can react with the range to boot. It's a classic "burst weapon" that bursts ALL THE TIME now when some twit decided to lower the jam rate WAY TOO MUCH. While the lowered jam rate benefits smaller brawlers, larger heavy mechs are abusing the heck out of it so my proposal in the name of game balance is to create a heat penalty when you jam = to 50% of your total heal threshold. Maybe... just maybe this will keep those tryhards from abusing a mechanic PGI decided to open the floodgates upon the average pugging general populace.

Ultra's had(has) an 18% chance to jam on TT. An Ultra should fire twice in the time it takes a standard AC5 to fire once. A 50% fail rate is ridiculous. As for a heat penalty for jamming... Are you saying there should be a heat penalty for a weapon that isn't firing?

Personally I have never had good luck with the Ultra AC. It jammed far to often for my liking.

[Mister Blastman]

Dr Herbert West, on 10 September 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

/snip

I loooooove Re-Animator. Jeffrey Combs ftw. Though, I have a really fond spot for From Beyond.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 10 September 2013 - 09:07 AM.

[Athurio]

Since UAC5 users tend to need a couple seconds to get the full effect from a burst, I just tend to use the old MMO adage of ,"Don't stand in the fire."

An AC20 to the face, from cover, is usually enough to make them back down.

[Dr Herbert West]

Mister Blastman, on 10 September 2013 - 09:06 AM, said:

I loooooove Re-Animator. Jeffrey Combs ftw. Though, I have a really fond spot for From Beyond.

I keep shooting My Reagent into the neck of this game, trying to revive it, but it keeps coming back wrong!

First, it was dying due to GR/PPC meta, so I injected it with My Reagent, and it came back with Ghost Heat. The game obviously had to be put down and reanimated again. I revised to dosage and composition of My Reagent and then it came back with 3PV!

I think the only solution is to destroy the body and seek out ... fresher samples.


EDIT: The cat was totally dead when I found it. Promise.

Edited by Dr Herbert West, 10 September 2013 - 10:54 AM.

[Monky]

Some thoughts on making the UAC5 skill based rather than random luck based, to give it a niche and make it more measurable rather than randomly better/worse than any other ballistic, while still preserving its feel;

http://mwomercs.com/...-jam-weirdness/

[William Knight]

Dedzone, on 07 September 2013 - 09:51 PM, said:

I use a 3x UAC/5 Ilya build and it rocks. But you know what I DONT do? I don't go running out into the open so everyone, esp. the 3x UAC boat can rip me the shreds. In a very good game I have done 1200+dmg. In a bad game, I've done 60. And no, I have never used a marco in my life.

A weapon only shoots things. Its the pilot behind the controls who decides how long it lives.

Learn to pilot your mech and even a 3x UAC boat isn't of much use. Stop blaming the game for everything that happens and start looking in the mirror. I'll be damned if I'm going to let this game become WOW online simply because whiners like you think they should kill everything in a few shots and own the world and be able to tank 12 mechs shooting them!
If you are truly that bad of a pilot, I might suggest a different game if you aren't willing to put the effort in to become better.

The same was true for the GR, except it couldn't do 1200+dmg because it ran out of ammo before then. The uac/5 is going to get a nerf.