89 replies to this topic

[DEMAX51]

PEEFsmash, on 06 September 2013 - 11:12 AM, said:

I don't think you are right about this. If you are, then nobody else knows about it. I know that Engines cannot be critted, and DHS in engine is considered nothing other than part of the engine, no extra slots are taken up by the DHS, so...there should be no benefit to DHS in the engine.

I know that DHS placed inside of the engine can be destroyed, as it has happened to me many times (pretty sure, at least - fairly positive I've been in my Jenner with only my CT reduced to internals and I hear Betty say "Heatsink Destroyed."

This is an interesting question...

Edited by DEMAX51, 06 September 2013 - 11:22 AM.

[PEEFsmash]

DEMAX51, on 06 September 2013 - 11:16 AM, said:

I know that DHS placed inside of the engine can be destroyed, as it has happened to me many times (pretty sure, at least - fairly positive I've been in my Jenner with only my CT reduced to internals and I hear Betty say "Heatsink Destroyed."

This is an interesting question...

Well regardless, they aren't absorbing FOR anything else other than (maybe) themselves, because we know the engine cannot be critted. Maybe if you put things in your CT, DHS in engine will help protect them? But that would still be a bad move on all of these mechs because your CT will be one of the most often-exposed mech parts.

[Selfish]

PEEFsmash, on 06 September 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Well regardless, they aren't absorbing FOR anything else other than (maybe) themselves, because we know the engine cannot be critted. Maybe if you put things in your CT, DHS in engine will help protect them? But that would still be a bad move on all of these mechs because your CT will be one of the most often-exposed mech parts.

The engine can be critted. It has 15 HP, but other than being a buffer it has no use/effect or notification of destruction. The heat sinks stored inside of an engine won't be destroyed if the engine pops, and they contribute their crit slots to the component.

This is only really interesting from a theoretical standpoint. Take the Atlas D/K (or any variant storing ammo for some reason). With a 350 engine and 4 DHS, it creates a CT with a 55 HP buffer that takes up 18/20 critical slots.

[DEMAX51]

Selfish, on 06 September 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

The engine can be critted. It has 15 HP, but other than being a buffer it has no use/effect or notification of destruction. The heat sinks stored inside of an engine won't be destroyed if the engine pops, and they contribute their crit slots to the component.

This is only really interesting from a theoretical standpoint. Take the Atlas D/K (or any variant storing ammo for some reason). With a 350 engine and 4 DHS, it creates a CT with a 55 HP buffer that takes up 18/20 critical slots.

This is along the same lines of what I'm saying. I feel like having heatsinks added to the engine (or any other items stored in your CT, really) might kind of give you more total HP to your internal structure - assuming some of the hits you take roll critical strikes.

Here's an example:

Case one: My Jenner takes an AC10 shot to the CT, which has no armor left. The hit does not roll a critical. The 10 pts of damage are applied directly to the CT internal structure.

Case two: Same scenario, but the AC10 shot lands as a critical strike on my in-engine heatsink. The heatsink itself takes 8.5 pts of damage, and my CT internals take 1.5 (as of the patch a few weeks ago, 15% of critical damage is applied directly to the structure). The heatsink has saved me from taking an additional 8.5 points of damage to my CT, and has possibly saved my life!

I might be wrong - to be honest, I've always been a bit hazy on how crits work in this game and there aren't many good posts explaining it - but if I'm right, it does give you a reason to store stuff in your CT.

[Selfish]

DEMAX51, on 06 September 2013 - 01:46 PM, said:

This is along the same lines of what I'm saying. I feel like having heatsinks added to the engine (or any other items stored in your CT, really) might kind of give you more total HP to your internal structure - assuming some of the hits you take roll critical strikes.

Here's an example:

Case one: My Jenner takes an AC10 shot to the CT, which has no armor left. The hit does not roll a critical. The 10 pts of damage are applied directly to the CT internal structure.

Case two: Same scenario, but the AC10 shot lands as a critical strike on my in-engine heatsink. The heatsink itself takes 8.5 pts of damage, and my CT internals take 1.5 (as of the patch a few weeks ago, 15% of critical damage is applied directly to the structure). The heatsink has saved me from taking an additional 8.5 points of damage to my CT, and has possibly saved my life!

I might be wrong - to be honest, I've always been a bit hazy on how crits work in this game and there aren't many good posts explaining it - but if I'm right, it does give you a reason to store stuff in your CT.

Nope. Crit damage and real damage are best thought of as separate. In the second example you'd deal 11.5 (total) damage to the CT because of the 1x crit (the +1.5 damage), and 10 damage to an item inside the CT. The critical damage transfer doesn't reduce damage in any way. It's just added on, and it still applies to successful critical hits that occur in empty components.

I have a post on crits here. It started brief, but has grown. I recently gave it a massive revision, so hopefully it's easier to read now.

Edited by Selfish, 06 September 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[DEMAX51]

Thanks for the clarification, Selfish.

[Unusual Suspect]

A pleasure to watch you play. You're quite skilled.

Good god, though, could you make the audio more painful to listen to? I'm a bit doubtful. Cutting in and out, static any time you speak... Consider, for the purposes of making videos, making the microphone simply ALWAYS pick up sound, so that our brains have the time to filter out that static and let us hear your advice without bleeding out the ears.

[PEEFsmash]

Unusual Suspect, on 06 September 2013 - 11:02 PM, said:

A pleasure to watch you play. You're quite skilled.

Good god, though, could you make the audio more painful to listen to? I'm a bit doubtful. Cutting in and out, static any time you speak... Consider, for the purposes of making videos, making the microphone simply ALWAYS pick up sound, so that our brains have the time to filter out that static and let us hear your advice without bleeding out the ears.

I apologize for the mic cutting in and out. It has been an issue finding the balance between too sensitive where it picks up every one of my strokes on the mechanical keyboard, and not sensitive enough. I fixed it now, so if I do another one you won't have to worry about it.

[Unusual Suspect]

Thanks, PEEFsmash. I apologize for the snark in my post - I may have been a tad bit drunk. I'm glad to hear the audio bit will be tuned.

[Wolfways]

Nice vid. Worth watching for players of any class, especially if it gets players to STOP SHOOTING TEAMMATES IN THE BACK!
I was hoping for a good RVN-3L build as i can't find anything i like (and the Raven is the only light i like) but i'm not into the sniper thing...at least not with my Raven.
The search goes on....

[Steppen]

The whole 90 minutes was fantastic.

Going down to the level of explaining why you put ammo in your left leg rather than your right is just one of the many gems in this video.

[IR_Quinn]

Thanks for this, it's greatly appreciated by myself and I'm sure many other new players. I've only been playing a week and I've become obsessed with my 2 Jenners, I was thinking of trying your builds but I only have the 300XLs so I doubt I'll be able to try them any time soon.

[-Muta-]

Hey man I would be super interested on improving... Not that I am a super new player (over 6k light games already) but there is ALWAYS room to learn more

Nice thread as well mate!

[ShinVector]

I am taking that Throttle Decay tip.
It is a pain to adjust to at times since I am still too used to cruise and shoot.

But you cannot deny the different peek-a-boo tactics the highspeed forward and reverse opens up for light mechs.

[ohtochooseaname]

ShinVector, on 18 September 2013 - 06:22 PM, said:

I am taking that Throttle Decay tip.
It is a pain to adjust to at times since I am still too used to cruise and shoot.

But you cannot deny the different peek-a-boo tactics the highspeed forward and reverse opens up for light mechs.

I bound "invert throttle" to a key. This allows you to do the fastest possible peekaboo.

[ShinVector]

ohtochooseaname, on 18 September 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

I bound "invert throttle" to a key. This allows you to do the fastest possible peekaboo.

That would be kinda confusing though.. What do you use for your normal forward throttle ?

[ohtochooseaname]

ShinVector, on 19 September 2013 - 01:10 AM, said:

That would be kinda confusing though.. What do you use for your normal forward throttle ?

I guess I should further specify: I have wasd mapped normally. I then have "2" mapped as max throttle and "z" (though debating switching it to "3") mapped as invert throttle. This means if you're going at max speed, you can invert throttle, which is the fastest way to back up at that point. Also, if you hit "2" (or "z" for that matter) again, it'll be the fastest you can go forward at max speed again as well. I just wish there were a way to bind -100% throttle instead of "invert throttle".

[PEEFsmash]

ohtochooseaname, on 19 September 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

I guess I should further specify: I have wasd mapped normally. I then have "2" mapped as max throttle and "z" (though debating switching it to "3") mapped as invert throttle. This means if you're going at max speed, you can invert throttle, which is the fastest way to back up at that point. Also, if you hit "2" (or "z" for that matter) again, it'll be the fastest you can go forward at max speed again as well. I just wish there were a way to bind -100% throttle instead of "invert throttle".

So you just have a totally overcomplicated mess of controls that requires far more actions and finger movement than is necessary? I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

Edited by PEEFsmash, 19 September 2013 - 12:58 PM.

[John Buford]

PEEFsmash, on 19 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

So you just have a totally overcomplicated mess of controls that requires far more actions and finger movement than is necessary? I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

I also keep throttle decay on and if I need to slow down or stop for any reason its easy just to lift my finger, and if I need to get going again or back up just put it down again. It follow the K.I.S.S. method keep it simple stupid.

[ohtochooseaname]

PEEFsmash, on 19 September 2013 - 12:58 PM, said:

So you just have a totally overcomplicated mess of controls that requires far more actions and finger movement than is necessary? I wouldn't recommend that to anyone!

If it can eek out that last bit of extra performance without creating too much overhead, then it's worth it. In this case, it is. In a light or fast medium, it stops and starts much, much faster than throttle decay or even holding down the button does.