265 replies to this topic

[Snoopy]

And again the actually problem was not even touched, only a new half thought through workaround was created.

It almost looks like PGI will not change their Holy Grail's of game design ( only-shutdown-counts heat system, Ghost Heat, high alpha + pinpoint, convergence, ... ) in any way. I fear they will change, nerf, buff anything else until it doesn't reminiscent look like BT anymore to just maintain their initial design.

IMHO the high-alpha discussion is dishonest:

• High-alpha pinpoint long range (e.g. 2xPPC, 1xGauss = 35 damage) from a heavy/ assault mech is bad and mean and has to be nerfed.
  
• High-alpha pinpoint close range (e.g. 6x M-Laser = 30 damage ) from a light mech is fine and fair.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Prezimonto, on 30 September 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

I love the increased speed. It's actually a sniper weapon now. The charge up is analogous to a scope in time that most FPS games give sniper weapons that fire at massive range. If they get rid of charge up how do you propose to balance the massive speed increase the round recieved?

Because it was in a good place before, and they added this to help desynchronize the PPC and Gauss, thereby changing the meta(which was stale and while this is a weird move it's good they did something). At the moment it's the only weapon in the game that feels like it hits like a sniper weapon. The ERPPC now runs too hot to reliably fire more than one for any length of time, and has a slower projectile speed. LRM's suck, and will continue to suck in most situations/matches as long as ECM can hard counter them at long AND medium range against a whole enemy team. ER lasers spread damage around at long range if the target is moving at all and do less damage and cost a lot of heat.

The Gauss rifle is still the best, most consistent weapon for doing long range damage, and is actually better in the role now with the increased projectile speed.

Stop trying to brawl with the Gauss and you'll be much happier. Treat it as true long range damage(around 660 to 1000) and it's still the best weapon in that range bracket. If anything, I think it should get a small max range boost up to 700 to 750 but that's not a huge deal. It's still fairly easy to rack up 400 damage with a single gauss rifle, and dual gauss builds wreck the enemy badly, and at great range, particularly when paired with improved zoom module. The only other tweak I could see would be to increase the hold time by .5 sec to maybe 1 sec. To much and you bring back ridge humping and jump sniping as the dominant meta, it's currently okay if you're good with the weapon, but a small increase might be acceptable.

Finally, remember that this weapon generates essentially no heat in the current heat system.... the one main factor that ALL other weapons deal with. That means it pairs with EVERY other weapon in the game including hot weapons like lasers and PPCS if you're good enough to juggle two actually different weapon systems.

argument invalid
why?

PGI creates its own meta problems like this with short sighted and foolish attempts at balancing what should not be touched.
wouldnt it be better if pgi made weapons more like papers, scissors rock,? you know lrms good against....entrenched opponents..... erppcs are a good counter to ecm at long range....so instead of nerfing things... they give us new tactical options...



pretty sure most of the people advocating no charge also were fine with slow gauss slugs. i know i am. i would happily trade the speed for the lost DPS and this stupid charge {Scrap}.

2 erppcs+guass= valid mix, why? cannon TT this mech can fire all its weapons once a turn if it has enough heatsinks. in this game (mwo) this same mech can alpha twice but takes almost twice as long to cool off.....so i would say the problem is a far too high heat threshhold vs not enough ghost heat.

as many have pointed out, because of pgi's "wisdom" the only ac's that work well with erppcs..... are a guass...because of its range and low heat. you can swap for ac2's. but they make way to much ghost heat to use with ppcs at all... so you are left with ac5's and ultra 5's if you want to maintain a good sniping profile...... yay now we all can play with only ac20's ultra 5's and ac5's.

see the ac10, still garbage, lbx 10 much better in every way but no reason to pack it if you can pack a ac20 or even clustered small ac's, which will provide much better dps and sustained firepower then any 10.

see its just stupid, the guass is a super critical weapon that splodes.....when not charged? oh oh oh but it also doesnt HOLD its charge.... but still explodes?

its just stupidity along with ghost heat.

again would gladly trade the new speed for old guass. and am very certain many others would as well.

[Col Jaime Wolf]

Amsro, on 20 November 2013 - 02:53 PM, said:

Just cause you can't use it doesn't = completely useless. I find the weapon to be amazing.


It never left the game, instead its no longer the ONLY AC weapon you mount on every mech that can. Although I still pretty much do exactly that.

2 Threads of Gauss QQ.

How many matches have people actually tried the new mechanic I wonder?

honestly i should just start like calling people out. you say its so good i challenge anyone to post video proof of someone using the guass rifle WELL WITHOUT USING A MACRO OR DUAL GUASS. period, where is the proof that it works well?

[Prezimonto]

Mellifluer, on 21 November 2013 - 05:53 PM, said:

argument invalid
why?

PGI creates its own meta problems like this with short sighted and foolish attempts at balancing what should not be touched.
wouldnt it be better if pgi made weapons more like papers, scissors rock,? you know lrms good against....entrenched opponents..... erppcs are a good counter to ecm at long range....so instead of nerfing things... they give us new tactical options...



pretty sure most of the people advocating no charge also were fine with slow gauss slugs. i know i am. i would happily trade the speed for the lost DPS and this stupid charge {Scrap}.

2 erppcs+guass= valid mix, why? cannon TT this mech can fire all its weapons once a turn if it has enough heatsinks. in this game (mwo) this same mech can alpha twice but takes almost twice as long to cool off.....so i would say the problem is a far too high heat threshhold vs not enough ghost heat.

as many have pointed out, because of pgi's "wisdom" the only ac's that work well with erppcs..... are a guass...because of its range and low heat. you can swap for ac2's. but they make way to much ghost heat to use with ppcs at all... so you are left with ac5's and ultra 5's if you want to maintain a good sniping profile...... yay now we all can play with only ac20's ultra 5's and ac5's.

see the ac10, still garbage, lbx 10 much better in every way but no reason to pack it if you can pack a ac20 or even clustered small ac's, which will provide much better dps and sustained firepower then any 10.

see its just stupid, the guass is a super critical weapon that splodes.....when not charged? oh oh oh but it also doesnt HOLD its charge.... but still explodes?

its just stupidity along with ghost heat.

again would gladly trade the new speed for old guass. and am very certain many others would as well.

Short answer: yes I agree. Longer answer: It'll never happen. ECM was their first step in to terrible band aides for broken balancing. I've spent, and so have too many others, too much time explaining in detail why their ideas are bad. Instead I now take each "balance" and do my best to isolate it and look at that single thing objectively.

In this case, I came to the conclusion that the Gauss is still fine, and actually a better sniper weapon if MUCH worse at brawling due to longer recycle and higher skill cap.

[Lightfoot]

PalmaRoma, on 21 November 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

The speed and range require you to be at least 500m out were you can most utilize its speed and range. Your using it like a brawlers weapon, it needs to be used like a sniper weapon, strike hard and fast from a distance from cover in one area, then move to another.

You're joking right? An 18 ton payload weapon has that little use? Besides which a weapon that gives you only one second to shoot is called a brawler weapon. It's referred to as shooting from the hip. It's a dueling pistol, not a sniper rifle/weapon. The only reason it isn't used for brawling is that the DPS is so low anything else out damages it.

Now PGI did not make or intend to make the Gauss Rifle into a sniper type weapon. Sniper weapons have dedicated scopes for taking headshots at 1000 meters and they give you 5 seconds of steady aim time. Not one second.

The nerf was just to remove the Gauss from play-ability for most players and that is exactly what the nerf did. A terrible event in the creation of MWO, probably PGI's worst blunder. And why is it such a blunder? Because MWO gameplay has become so stale and shallow since the Gauss Rifle was removed.

I am unhindered by it. Damage-wise my mechs are all running much better long range ballistic weapons than the Gauss could match. Today I even got headshots at 600 meters on a Blackjack and 30 meters on a speeding Jenner and no Gauss was used. I guess the nerf-crowd was so outraged by the sound of the Gauss Rifle that it had to be nerfed , because it's only value was that it only took 7 criticals. I can't believe anyone actually believed all the whining sob stories from players on the forums. You just look at the DPS of the weapon and you know it's just sour grapes over losing a match and not an over-powered weapon.

Well good luck all, we all lost alot of fun possibilities when PGI killed the Gauss.



.

Edited by Lightfoot, 21 November 2013 - 07:45 PM.

[Malzel]

Some people are such drama queens.

[Whatzituyah]

Malzel, on 21 November 2013 - 07:51 PM, said:

Some people are such drama queens.

I think what they really should think about is how are we going to tell the difference between a "Thor (Summoner)" and the "Thunderbolt" Battlemechs. Sure things need some balance but the balance is a double edged sword.

Edited by Whatzituyah, 21 November 2013 - 07:54 PM.

[Moment Killer]

Since the purpose of Gauss seems to be geared towards long range sniping, and it is ineffective at short range, there should be a positive zoom modifier if Gauss is equipped.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Lightfoot, on 21 November 2013 - 07:43 PM, said:

You're joking right? An 18 ton payload weapon has that little use? Besides which a weapon that gives you only one second to shoot is called a brawler weapon. It's referred to as shooting from the hip. It's a dueling pistol, not a sniper rifle/weapon. The only reason it isn't used for brawling is that the DPS is so low anything else out damages it.

Now PGI did not make or intend to make the Gauss Rifle into a sniper type weapon. Sniper weapons have dedicated scopes for taking headshots at 1000 meters and they give you 5 seconds of steady aim time. Not one second.

The nerf was just to remove the Gauss from play-ability for most players and that is exactly what the nerf did. A terrible event in the creation of MWO, probably PGI's worst blunder. And why is it such a blunder? Because MWO gameplay has become so stale and shallow since the Gauss Rifle was removed.

I am unhindered by it. Damage-wise my mechs are all running much better long range ballistic weapons than the Gauss could match. Today I even got headshots at 600 meters on a Blackjack and 30 meters on a speeding Jenner and no Gauss was used. I guess the nerf-crowd was so outraged by the sound of the Gauss Rifle that it had to be nerfed , because it's only value was that it only took 7 criticals. I can't believe anyone actually believed all the whining sob stories from players on the forums. You just look at the DPS of the weapon and you know it's just sour grapes over losing a match and not an over-powered weapon.

Well good luck all, we all lost alot of fun possibilities when PGI killed the Gauss.



.

Well sorry the gauss isn't your cup of tea, works fine for me. And PGI stated they added the charge mechanic to make it a more sniper like weapon. Some people can use the gauss to great extent, I've been able to use it in brawling situation as well as sniper situation, though I highly prefer long range. No weapon in the game has the benefit of next to zero heat, 15 full damage and a 660 optimal range and insanely fast projectile speed, its the best weapon for sniping in the game, at a distance of more than 500-600m anyways, which is how its best used. Dual gauss has earned me rather frequently ~650 damage and 2 kills at the very least in every match I run my Cataphract 3d unless I have on of those off nights where I make a stupid mistake and get to close to the enemy blob. You can tell me all you want that gauss is bad, but its not, at least 1 in 2 matches there is another dual guass build in my games, any for the most part they all end up with far better damage and kills than the autocannon toting jaggers or ppc sporting shadowhawks/catas.

I've beaten jaggers with the infamous 3-4 autconnon 2s, the ultra ac 5 jaggers/cataphracts, ppc highlanders, and every other build that would supposedly have an edge over gauss. Want to know how? Cover, I pop out of cover when my shots are ready, let loose, and strike the side torso if they have an xl, or center if they don't, it only takes a few salvos before my work is complete, all of this at a range which requires far too much leading for the enemy, and using cover to my advantage. I've beaten autocannon jaggers and catas in brawling situations too. I combine the use of my jumpjets, with careful aim at their weakest point and again let my shots loose. I've found nothing but great success with the gauss, just cause you can;t get similar results with your autocannon, doesn't instantly equate to it being bad.

Also, sniper weapons don't HAVE to have anything, doesn't have to have a scope, but can have something similar if you like (advanced zoom) nor does it HAVE to headshot people instantly from a 1000m to qualify as one, aside from that I firmly believe one shot kills have no place in this game. Sniping by definition is and I quote, " To shoot at individuals from a concealed place." Gauss works just fine with that, and I should mention, gauss does very lethal damage still at 1000m anyways, but that is aside from the point. Were you seem to think gauss was terribly nerfed, I see it as buffed, the projectile speed, makes it just more effective in general at all ranges, but whatever keep claiming the weapon was ruined even though it got better.

[Sug]

Instead of ghost heat add ghost charging time. Keep the cooldown and charge the same for dual gauss but give single gauss a faster cycle time.

As for being hard to use, I'm not a great player, 2 weeks ago I put dual gauss on a fract, and twice tonight people have bitched at me for using an aimbot because of my impossible shots.

Gauss is different to use but you get used to it pretty quickly.

Edited by Sug, 21 November 2013 - 10:38 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

If you don't like the game, don't play it and stop trolling the forums.

People complain because they DO like the game. They want it to be better.

[Lightfoot]

@Palma Rosa

Well they didn't make the Gauss Rifle into a sniper weapon with their new mechanic, weapons that require you to fire in one second are brawler weapons where you can't miss.

That said, nobody who uses a joystick can make the thing work, well maybe one or two, but for non super-beings it takes 2-3 seconds to allign the reticle with a joystick and MWO is supposed to support joysticks. Theoretically the Razor Artemis Joystick is coming out soon, designed for MWO, but you won't be able to use a Gauss Rifle with it.

I know lurking is a good survival tactic, but you are not supporting your team very well usually, so not something I would do.

PGI is just wrong about the Gauss Rifle. Anything that obstructs half the player population from using a game element is not a fix for anything, it's a just a nusiance.

[Kotzi]

Dont really see the problem. If i only mount a Gauss i stay behind my teammates supporting. If i want to brawl i get some extra close combat guns. You dont have to run with 1 Gauss.

[ColourfulConfetti]

Lightfoot, on 21 November 2013 - 11:17 PM, said:

@Palma Rosa

Well they didn't make the Gauss Rifle into a sniper weapon with their new mechanic, weapons that require you to fire in one second are brawler weapons where you can't miss.

That said, nobody who uses a joystick can make the thing work, well maybe one or two, but for non super-beings it takes 2-3 seconds to allign the reticle with a joystick and MWO is supposed to support joysticks. Theoretically the Razor Artemis Joystick is coming out soon, designed for MWO, but you won't be able to use a Gauss Rifle with it.

I know lurking is a good survival tactic, but you are not supporting your team very well usually, so not something I would do.

PGI is just wrong about the Gauss Rifle. Anything that obstructs half the player population from using a game element is not a fix for anything, it's a just a nusiance.

Its sniper like in that it works better at high range, whether or not its a sniper weapon is opinion.
Using a joystick period should be reserved for enthusiast play, not serious play, you just can't get the kind of accuracy you want with just mouse and keyboard, and sure its stupid that a joystick is more of an impediment than an aid. And I strongly disagree, staying back behind the fight and landing gauss shots is integral to team victory, landing good ct hits and kills and dangerous foes does alot more for your team than the average player in most cases. I can lurk and land good shots, often before the enemy even is engaged. Saying PGI is wrong abotu the gauss is like saying battlefield is wrong about sniper rifles. Why? Obviously not everybody liked to play with sniper rifles, certainly more than half the players don;t prefer it, does that men remove it? No, cause there are some of us who LIKE the new gauss and use it to a great advantage, why are you trying to change a role that works for so many players?

[TheIronWarrior]

Prezimonto, on 21 November 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Short answer: yes I agree. Longer answer: It'll never happen. ECM was their first step in to terrible band aides for broken balancing. I've spent, and so have too many others, too much time explaining in detail why their ideas are bad. Instead I now take each "balance" and do my best to isolate it and look at that single thing objectively.

In this case, I came to the conclusion that the Gauss is still fine, and actually a better sniper weapon if MUCH worse at brawling due to longer recycle and higher skill cap.

Now, I'm not a veteran player, andyou could even call me a part of the FPS crowd. But when i first downloaded the game, I went in to battle,earned my cadet bonus, and bought a K-2, mostly because of "wow that looks cool! " I started with ER PPC's, and at the advice of a fellow player, bought and equipped Dual Guass(This was before the Guass got "balanced") I could pull off 300-400 dmg a game. This made me actually interested in the game. Of course, I would still frequently get killed because of the reload time, but overall, i enjoyed myself quite a bit. I recently came back to MW:O, and tried out my good 'ol K-2. I had the same period of confusion as some other forum posters, but i did eventually figure out how to make the damn thing shoot.
I was kinda sad, but could see where the anti-booating thing could come in.


Now, everyone has their own view, and I'm not expecting mine to be cared about. But how about giving PPC/ERPPC more crit slots to prevent boating, and give the gauss back its one-click. That way we could have the good 'ol gauss back without having boaters, and all be happy and punch holes in each other.

BTW to all you who complain about PGI's unresponsiveness, please relax and understand. this is their first game, and they will learn these balancing things in time. I have played other MMO's like WOT, SC, and WT. Gaijin had the same problems with WT, and they learned eventually how to balance well. I firmly believe are but the growing pains of PGI, and there will be clearer skies ahead.

[ColourfulConfetti]

TheIronWarrior, on 23 November 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Now, I'm not a veteran player, andyou could even call me a part of the FPS crowd. But when i first downloaded the game, I went in to battle,earned my cadet bonus, and bought a K-2, mostly because of "wow that looks cool! " I started with ER PPC's, and at the advice of a fellow player, bought and equipped Dual Guass(This was before the Guass got "balanced") I could pull off 300-400 dmg a game. This made me actually interested in the game. Of course, I would still frequently get killed because of the reload time, but overall, i enjoyed myself quite a bit. I recently came back to MW:O, and tried out my good 'ol K-2. I had the same period of confusion as some other forum posters, but i did eventually figure out how to make the damn thing shoot.
I was kinda sad, but could see where the anti-booating thing could come in.


Now, everyone has their own view, and I'm not expecting mine to be cared about. But how about giving PPC/ERPPC more crit slots to prevent boating, and give the gauss back its one-click. That way we could have the good 'ol gauss back without having boaters, and all be happy and punch holes in each other.

BTW to all you who complain about PGI's unresponsiveness, please relax and understand. this is their first game, and they will learn these balancing things in time. I have played other MMO's like WOT, SC, and WT. Gaijin had the same problems with WT, and they learned eventually how to balance well. I firmly believe are but the growing pains of PGI, and there will be clearer skies ahead.

The new gauss is better than the old so I don't want to see it get snapshots back, the new gauss might not be for everyone but why is that a bad thing, sniper weapons are not for everyone in pretty much any fps game, so what makes the gauss any different? The change made it unique from being some stupid 15 damage autocannon that is 15 tons and has no heat and I think that is great. The weapon actually is mostly used in sniping roles now, and you know that's how the weapon should be, it adds diversity.

[Amsro]

Mellifluer, on 21 November 2013 - 06:04 PM, said:

honestly i should just start like calling people out. you say its so good i challenge anyone to post video proof of someone using the guass rifle WELL WITHOUT USING A MACRO OR DUAL GUASS. period, where is the proof that it works well?

No Video, I don't record or stream matches.

But I could post Dozens of screenshots of Gauss builds doing epically good, but then that still wouldn't satiate you.

Instead I will call you out, how many matches have you used Gauss?



How much time have you actually spent with the weapon to base your opinion on? My accuracy is up 10% since the "Nerf" that everyone claims. I don't see anything to point to Gauss being worse then it was, the increase in speed more then made up for the time delay to fire.

I will accept any further buff, but the weapon is deadly as it is in the right hands.

[Prezimonto]

TheIronWarrior, on 23 November 2013 - 01:35 PM, said:

Now, I'm not a veteran player, andyou could even call me a part of the FPS crowd. But when i first downloaded the game, I went in to battle,earned my cadet bonus, and bought a K-2, mostly because of "wow that looks cool! " I started with ER PPC's, and at the advice of a fellow player, bought and equipped Dual Guass(This was before the Guass got "balanced") I could pull off 300-400 dmg a game. This made me actually interested in the game. Of course, I would still frequently get killed because of the reload time, but overall, i enjoyed myself quite a bit. I recently came back to MW:O, and tried out my good 'ol K-2. I had the same period of confusion as some other forum posters, but i did eventually figure out how to make the damn thing shoot.
I was kinda sad, but could see where the anti-booating thing could come in.


Now, everyone has their own view, and I'm not expecting mine to be cared about. But how about giving PPC/ERPPC more crit slots to prevent boating, and give the gauss back its one-click. That way we could have the good 'ol gauss back without having boaters, and all be happy and punch holes in each other.

BTW to all you who complain about PGI's unresponsiveness, please relax and understand. this is their first game, and they will learn these balancing things in time. I have played other MMO's like WOT, SC, and WT. Gaijin had the same problems with WT, and they learned eventually how to balance well. I firmly believe are but the growing pains of PGI, and there will be clearer skies ahead.

I actually still do just fine with the dual gauss K2. It's certainly a sniper mech now though... not a chance you're going to survive a brawl against most good builds, unless you can soften them up with a hit or two before they close.

[ShadowbaneX]

Aftandil, on 19 November 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Bring the gauss back to game!
Just reduce delay from 4 sec to 3.0-3.25 sec.
3.25 sec + delay 0.75 = 4 seconds. (3.0 seconds - considering reflex, so time to shot tend to 4.0 sec)

Now 4.75 sec - minimal time to shot. Damage 15/4.75 sec = 3.16 DPS
Earlier times it was 3.75 DPS.

This. I think I posted much the same thing earlier in this thread (or another just like it). Additionally, am I the only one that likes the loss of charge thing? I mean, sometimes I'll line up a shot and the target will step in to cover, someone will step in the way, or I'll just realize that it was a bad shot, ie would have missed horribly. So I just hold down my fire button, let the charge dissipate and save myself the round rather than wasting it.

[TheIronWarrior]

Variety is nice, but, there are no other ballistic weapons that behave this way. Oh well, i guess the Guass could be worse.