265 replies to this topic

[Svidro]

Love how old this thread is. Smells like history in the making.

[xMEPHISTOx]

Much to do about nothing, move along now, nothing to see here.

[Dimento Graven]

Khobai, on 14 February 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Extending the charge duration would defeat the whole purpose of the chargeup mechanic. if you allow the gauss to hold its charge for longer then you can poptart with it again, by holding the charge, jumping, then firing. The current charge up mechanics prevent poptarting with gauss and thats a good thing.

The only changes the gauss needs are more hitpoints (10 instead of 5) and to lower its cooldown from 4.0 to 3.25 because of the 0.75 charge time (makes it the same dps as it was before the chargeup mechanic was added)

You're an odd sort of fellow to believe that poptart'ing with gauss isn't possible with the current mechanic.

You can jump AND charge AT THE SAME TIME, y'know...

Edited by Dimento Graven, 14 February 2014 - 06:31 PM.

[Nryrony]

As long as you use dual gauss, the gauss is fine, but if you try to use it as an additional weapon like ppc + gauss, most people will fail mastering it. With the charge mechanic its the same deal, if you go dual gauss, its much less of a hassle, but if you use it as a support main weapon (like the misery for example) it becomes very annoying.

[MischiefSC]

I have no issue with Gauss as it is now. 50% damage bonus over AC10, half again the range, no heat and more than double the projectile speed for 3 extra tons.

The problem is that you put a Gauss with 2PPCs and they hit the same thing it's enough damage to one-shot a cockpit at 600m.

Dual gauss won't quite one-shot a mechs cockpit but it's close.

Gauss are the highest damage, most long range and accurate weapon. They trump all other ACs and 3 tons isn't much of a tradeoff. Synced with PPCs (since PPCs are peak energy) and you've got a weapon synergy that makes everything else pretty pointless.

So, rather than nerf PPCs (PGI has made it pretty clear they like the PPC meta, we've had it for a couple of years) they nerfed Gauss. I think the charge-up needs handled another way but still, it's not that bad. I do alright with dual gauss. Gauss plus AC2s for taptaptapBOOMtaptaptap isn't bad either. Same projectile speed and similar range.

What they are not is an upgrade to your ACs. They're a dedicated sniper weapon.

[Morderian]

Well again people who think the Gauss ruined Jumpsnipers, sry guys but this is not true it actually buffed the Gauss for them because Jumpsnipers are the most stable plattform aside from Dualgauss Mechs to use it, every person with a bit of skill will still hit the same spot with 2 PPCs and the Gauss, its just that 2 AC5 instead of the Gauss are easier to use and more effective.

The Gauss nerf was actually a hit to mixed builds where the Gauss was used with weapons that dont have the awesome synergie as PPCs with the Gauss because now most of those Mechs lost their Longrange fire against Jumpsnipers because of the charge (before the Gauss is loaded and aimed the JS will be back in cover and you will have eaten 35 points of damage)

What actually was the big hit against jumpsniper was the new PPC heat because now you cant fire endless times with the ERPPC, which lowered their amount of times they can jump up before needing to cool down a lot (from 5 to 2).

There would have been better soultions to decrease high Alphastrikes with the Gauss like Energy that the Mech can produce:

PGI could have given all mechs an energy level of 100 if you fire it gets decreased by a certain amount depending on weapon of course like 60-80 for a Gauss, 33 for an PPC, 10 for a Medlaser etc. and if you dont have enough energy for a weapon you cant fire it, that actually would have been a lot closer to lore cause it was similar stated in Phelan Kells Trial of Position

Edited by Morderian, 15 February 2014 - 04:36 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

You're an odd sort of fellow to believe that poptart'ing with gauss isn't possible with the current mechanic.

You can jump AND charge AT THE SAME TIME, y'know...

And yet no one does it. There is a reason you dont see gauss/ppc highlanders anymore. Because its very difficult to poptart with gauss atm. The timing has to be perfect. And when youre in a combat situation you cant be worried about getting your timing down perfectly... you need to be able to just shoot.

[Varent]

Khobai, on 14 February 2014 - 01:56 PM, said:

Extending the charge duration would defeat the whole purpose of the chargeup mechanic. if you allow the gauss to hold its charge for longer then you can poptart with it again, by holding the charge, jumping, then firing. The current charge up mechanics prevent poptarting with gauss and thats a good thing.

The only changes the gauss needs are more hitpoints (10 instead of 5) and to lower its cooldown from 4.0 to 3.25 because of the 0.75 charge time (makes it the same dps as it was before the chargeup mechanic was added)

They can pop tart effectively with ac. It changes nothing. The real strength of the gause was in its snap shots. That was the primary complaint, wich had little to do with Jump Sniping. It already has added difficultly with the charge up. Adding a little more time to how long it holds the charge would do very little except give you a touch more time to aim effectively.

[E_Crow]

Ya know, ever since they adjusted the Gauss rifle I have been hitting moving targets a lot more than before. Mainly because of the travel time. It took me all of three rounds to get more or less adjusted to the new feel, and I actually do better than ever. Don't use your horrid aim as an excuse to change a weapon that works just fine.

[E_Crow]

Morderian, on 15 February 2014 - 04:27 AM, said:

PGI could have given all mechs an energy level of 100 if you fire it gets decreased by a certain amount depending on weapon of course like 60-80 for a Gauss, 33 for an PPC, 10 for a Medlaser etc. and if you dont have enough energy for a weapon you cant fire it, that actually would have been a lot closer to lore cause it was similar stated in Phelan Kells Trial of Position

That... is a horrible idea. It might work for I.C.E. engine mechs, but fusion reactors are designed to generate enough energy to fire all weapons non-stop plus movement/ other things. The sheer heat created to do so is why the 'Mechs overheat. Plus, that would make it so that firing one weapon prevents you from firing the other, overheat or not (Which it wouldn't according to Battletech lore).

[Dimento Graven]

AstroTiki, on 15 February 2014 - 08:59 PM, said:

Ya know, ever since they adjusted the Gauss rifle I have been hitting moving targets a lot more than before. Mainly because of the travel time. It took me all of three rounds to get more or less adjusted to the new feel, and I actually do better than ever. Don't use your horrid aim as an excuse to change a weapon that works just fine.

I read arrogantly ignorant posts like this and know the person is full of crap. Just another gauss hater, because he's not allowed to do stupid things like face tank Jaegers and Cataphracts, and wants to keep the weapon down.

Anyone who has used the weapon to extent knows there's issues. Are those issues "game breaking"? No of course not. But the balance has been whacked and the weapon itself has the steepest learning curve and is THE most unforgiving weapon out there.

1. Cockpit vibration seems to 'jigger up' the charge time occasionally.
2. Lag affects the charge time, so that most players with pings over 100 probably won't ever be able to reliably use the weapon effectively.
3. It STILL blows up when there's no ammo, and therefore NO CHARGE.
4. Keeping the reload time the same while adding a .75 second charge time, AND only allowing a .25 second window for firing SERIOUSLY affects the ACTUAL DPS of the weapon in a seriously negative way.
5. The dang charge noise is TOO F'ING quiet in battlefield situations.
6. The stupid HUD colors frequently get washed out not allowing you to see when the weapon is ready to fire (and OMFG cockpit glass actually made that WORSE too, btw).
7. Sometimes for no explainable reason the charging noise doesn't even sound. The game 'forgets' to make the charging noise altogether.

These are just the most frequently experienced issues, specific to gauss. Toss in all the other known game issues (hit registration, the sometimes seemingly random application of HSR, etc.) and sometimes the weapon is darn near unusable.

Edited by Dimento Graven, 15 February 2014 - 10:40 PM.

[FlameDragon]

Honestly I think It makes it fair, and it feels more like a sniper.I think the PPC needs a short charge time though.

[Morderian]

Astro Tiki that with firing non stop is not fully true if you read the Blood of kerensky books there was mentioned things about the power problems with Weapons
i will qoute from the Book a bit:

"Great weapon. It uses magnetic currents to launch a ball of ferrous metal about the diameter of a melon. Generates next to no heat and packs one hell of a wallop. The only problem is that its power requirements are fairly heavy. If you try to shoot it and the lasers at the same time, the computer will have to cycle and allocate power, so it will take a bit longer to get your salvo off."

"Vlad isn't in control. Natasha warned me about the power requirements for a Gauss rifle. Vlad hit the triggers for everything in his first shot. He's got the Gauss rifles set up as his primary weapons, so they get first crack at the power from his fusion engines!"

i think that make a kind of powerlevel for the Mech actually a good canon like idea and it cuts down high Alpha strikes

[Thanatos676]

Dimento Graven, on 15 February 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

I read arrogantly ignorant posts like this and know the person is full of crap.

Funny, i always think the same thing whenever i read something you post.

[SuriViruS]

Morderian, on 16 February 2014 - 07:04 AM, said:

Astro Tiki that with firing non stop is not fully true if you read the Blood of kerensky books there was mentioned things about the power problems with Weapons
i will qoute from the Book a bit:

Well that hit the spot. Finally someone brought it up.
Although the novels give a lot room for interpretation (reactor size, gausscannon size, etc.),
they give the same room for balacing.

I might have said it before, but I think energy-management could change this game back more into a sim and could
resolve the gauss "problems" better than the actual mechanics.

[Dalberon]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 September 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

The Charge up is for simulating the 60 meter minimum range a Gauss should have had.

How can a lump of metal traveling at speeds need 60 meters before it does damage? That is illogical.

As the gauss stands today I can't use it effectively. I have seen a few opponents seem to do pretty well with them, so I do not think it is impossible; but doesn't match up with a play style I can do well at.

It would make more sense to me if after reload it auto charged and then you could fire it once charged. Basically just decrease the fire rate on it. *shrug* I've had to remove them from all my mechs which has resulted in a couple mechs just not being played. I can't rationalize having that much weight on a weapon I can't utilize effectively except in sniper situations.

[Lightfoot]

Yeah, you all bring your Duke Nukem Gauss Rifles against me in a match. You make good salvage.

MWO was almost perfect about a year ago with the exception of an LRM bug. Now it's got about 5 working weapons and no reason to use Mechlab. I would be more worried about that than a couple of pop-tarting mech pilots. If you don't want pop-tarting petition PGI to block firing weapons while jjetting. Period.

[countTZT]

The Gauss Rifle seems perfect now.
It's a weapon hard to use but that gives you excellent adwanteges if you are sniping.

1: It doesn't have impact on the heat.
2: YOU DONT SEE THE BULLET (and that is really important)
3: It doesn't make smoke or too much shake on the mech hit, so the mechwarrior could have problem to localize the sniper.

Now, if you eliminate the "warming up sequence", whoever could be able to aim and press at the right moment, that in a medium range (500 m) gives the hit almost sure (the bullet is not soo slow).
And what about that guys who use the jetpack to stalk? Jump, aim a second and hit. It would really suck. It would be like the MW4 Laser sistem.

The Gauss is a "pro gun". If you don't know how to use it, dont use it.
I toke down 5 mechs in a row, (got the screen), obviusly you won't aim to the lights, but un tank the Atlas that moves around is a pretty smart idea.

I go around with a Cataphract, and the double Gauss is pretty tough.

[Lightfoot]

Dimento Graven, on 15 February 2014 - 10:37 PM, said:

I read arrogantly ignorant posts like this and know the person is full of crap. Just another gauss hater, because he's not allowed to do stupid things like face tank Jaegers and Cataphracts, and wants to keep the weapon down.

Anyone who has used the weapon to extent knows there's issues. Are those issues "game breaking"? No of course not. But the balance has been whacked and the weapon itself has the steepest learning curve and is THE most unforgiving weapon out there.

1. Cockpit vibration seems to 'jigger up' the charge time occasionally.
2. Lag affects the charge time, so that most players with pings over 100 probably won't ever be able to reliably use the weapon effectively.
3. It STILL blows up when there's no ammo, and therefore NO CHARGE.
4. Keeping the reload time the same while adding a .75 second charge time, AND only allowing a .25 second window for firing SERIOUSLY affects the ACTUAL DPS of the weapon in a seriously negative way.
5. The dang charge noise is TOO F'ING quiet in battlefield situations.
6. The stupid HUD colors frequently get washed out not allowing you to see when the weapon is ready to fire (and OMFG cockpit glass actually made that WORSE too, btw).
7. Sometimes for no explainable reason the charging noise doesn't even sound. The game 'forgets' to make the charging noise altogether.

These are just the most frequently experienced issues, specific to gauss. Toss in all the other known game issues (hit registration, the sometimes seemingly random application of HSR, etc.) and sometimes the weapon is darn near unusable.

On top of all that it's the weakest DPS/ton ballistic. Any fool with a pair of AC5's can beat the Gauss Rifle and UAC5's blow it away so I wish you all would stop fabricating Gauss Rifle stories that the facts prove are your imagination. Anyone can have a good game with any weapon. That proves nothing.

I am just astonished that PGI deployed such a game destroying nerf on the Gauss when all that was ever needed was to increase the recharge time as was done in previous MechWarrior games. And it did ruin MWO for many mechs (those mechs with one ballistic hardpoint) and players. Don't deny it.

[Morderian]

Well i have to disagree here with you count the Gauss is not a "Pro" weapon when used used in the old configs of dual Gauss or Gauss + PPC.

to the Dual Gauss:

well you have the same weapon with the same Speed, Convergence, charge time etc. with 15 Damage per Gun thats an 30 pinponit alpha that anybody with a bit of training and weapongroup management can use (put in all groups for a giant green light),
my K2 with its dual gauss config makes 600 damage in most matches while i dont even get an feeling of exitement from a fight, just postion, load, fire, position, load, fire again and again quite boring and easy and extremely rewarding and any light mech the runs towards you over open field also dies after 1-2 salvos exept when HSR is not working (happens sometimes with 150 Ping)

Gauss and PPC:
well the old meta classic, load the gauss fire it and let the PPCs follow after it also easy to use and very rewarding,
gets even easier with a Jumpsniper because you dont risk much of your armor and your biggest nemesis cant load as fast as you disappear (Gauss),
your only problem is the Heat the PPCs produce but that is a good thing because Gauss + PPC Snipers now got their DPM reduced and it is not as superior as before

so what did the Gauss change do:

- buffed Gauss boating
- had no effect on the old meta builds for decent pilots just 1-2 training games and you are back to what it was before
- did reduce the number of lesser used mechs even more (like the Dragon)
- made a Jumpsnipers life easier because the Weapon that always could answer it cant fire fast enough

well why do we not see so many mechs with Gauss now, exept dual Gauss boats:

- there are even more rewarding configs that before no one actually thought about because they had their easymode build and now out of overhyped fear got a new one that is even better (my Highlander likes his 2 AC5 that replaced the Gauss)

- most people dont want to learn the mechanic becasue there are even easier things to use for a good score and lets be honest that is what for most people counts as much damage as easy as possible