93 replies to this topic

[MeiSooHaityu]

Alek Ituin, on 08 September 2013 - 07:30 PM, said:

What's with the communal hard-on for the Madcat?

The only difference between a Madcat and Catapult is the fact the Madcat has arms. WHOOP-DEE-F**KING-DING-DONG.


You still have the same uber-tarded torso with the same vulnerable missile boxes. But "OH MAH GERD IT R CAN ARMORS"... no difference, just slightly more work to blast off the same vulnerable pieces.

10 Tons heavier than a Catapult (75 ton mech) and yet was also renowned for it speed. I am thinking a 90+ kph (maybe close to 100KPH) possible Heavy with a pretty nice loadout. It could be a very nice mech.

AS for hitboxes, I am almost certain that the shoulder missile racks will get their own hitboxes (there has been damage indicators that have glitched on startup and shown them). If not, they will probably be tied to the arms and have a rather high armor point allocation. We will see.

[FupDup]

Marmon Rzohr, on 09 September 2013 - 01:23 AM, said:

Catapult-like hitboxes wouldn't be bad neccessarily. Small and hideable CT hitboxes are only useful for brawling mechs (or generally mechs with STD engines), for XLs you need difficult-to-hit side torsi.

This is why the Jager is a very vunerable mech. All it's sexyest loadouts need an XL, and with such big side hitboxes, it's like running with a CT with 20 points of armor less (against players who can aim that is) - not a problem if you run a Jager with a STD engine.

That being said the Jager is still awesome.

Clan XL engines only take up 2 crits per side torso, thereby allowing the mech to survive the loss of one side torso but die when both sides are gone (TT rule is 3 crits from any location, including the CT, to kill an engine). If you've lost both sides, you're pretty much screwed as it is unless you're a zombie Centurion, so having a gigantic CT will not be of help to the Mad Kitteh.

Clan XL engines get the best of both worlds between the IS XL and standard engines, and are viable with nearly any type of hitboxes.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2013 - 04:37 AM.

[Shadey99]

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 September 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

10 Tons heavier than a Catapult (75 ton mech) and yet was also renowned for it speed. I am thinking a 90+ kph (maybe close to 100KPH) possible Heavy with a pretty nice loadout. It could be a very nice mech.

AS for hitboxes, I am almost certain that the shoulder missile racks will get their own hitboxes (there has been damage indicators that have glitched on startup and shown them). If not, they will probably be tied to the arms and have a rather high armor point allocation. We will see.

It's 86.4 kph. And really the Timberwolf (Mad Cat) is possibly the most iconic mech because it was used on package art multiple times and even filled the role of the only mech in some games (mech assault). That it is a cross between a Marauder and Catapult also helps.

And for the launcher boxes... Well they are unlikely to make them arms as the stuff that fits into them is the stuff from the side torsos. I could see the Timber Wolf having a very large center torso with the launchers being almost all there is of the side torsos, though this is still pretty crazy when you consider where the machineguns and lasers fit in the side torsos (for the default config). The Timberwolf has always been oddly shaped and while this meant nothing in TT/P&P and means alot in video games.

[Marmon Rzohr]

FupDup, on 09 September 2013 - 04:15 AM, said:

Clan XL engines only take up 2 crits per side torso, thereby allowing the mech to survive the loss of one side torso but die when both sides are gone (TT rule is 3 crits from any location, including the CT, to kill an engine). If you've lost both sides, you're pretty much screwed as it is unless you're a zombie Centurion, so having a gigantic CT will not be of help to the Mad Kitteh.

Clan XL engines get the best of both worlds between the IS XL and standard engines, and are viable with nearly any type of hitboxes.

True, but the TT effect of having one of the sides blown off with a Clan XL was a speed reduction similar in effect to being legged (if i'm not mistaken, and i very well could be). So it's still much different than with a STD engine.

[Khobai]

Quote

True, but the TT effect of having one of the sides blown off with a Clan XL was a speed reduction similar in effect to being legged (if i'm not mistaken, and i very well could be). So it's still much different than with a STD engine.

Nope destroying a side torso definitely didnt slow down the mech. Just made it generate more heat.

[TexAce]

Viktor Drake, on 07 September 2013 - 07:46 PM, said:

The sad part is alot of the Clan mechs are going to be totally DOA due to thier shapes.

The Timberwolf (Madcat) for example has a huge CT that juts forward and can be easily hit from the side just like a Catapult, plus it has huge missile boxes which will have to be either attached to their arms or side torsos. Whatever the case they are going to be very vulnerable to fire. Same goes for the Maddog (Vulture), hit has the same jutting forward torso as a Dragon.

Also look at the sheer mass and width of the Warhawk and Direwolf. Both have the jutting torso but have huge side torsos as well. Oh and talking about a Walking CTs, just look at the Gladiator and the Gargoyle. The Summoner might have this problem as well.

This leaves the Hellbringer, Nova, Stromcrow, Ice Ferret, Viper, Kit Fox, Mist Lynx and Fire Month which are basically the lights and mediums with only one 65 ton heavy that doesn't look like it will have hit box issues.

This is not true. The missile boxes will have their own section in the paperdoll. It won't be arms, nor side torsos, nor CT.

There is a screenshot of a UI glitch somewhere in this forum showing that the sections already are in place, just hidden.

[Alek Ituin]

People who responded to my post:


You blathered on about {Scrap} I wasn't talking about. "Oh boy, it has lots of pod space!" Doesn't change the fact the design is just a Catapult with arms. "But wait, it goes fast!" It's still a Catapult with arms.

"But, but.., Clan tech!" CATAPULT WITH ARMS.

Do you people ever stop whacking it to Madcats and realize it's got a crappy torso layout, with huge easy to hit missile boxes still? No matter what technical advantages it has, the actual design of the 'Mech still suffers from MAJOR drawbacks.

Edited by Alek Ituin, 09 September 2013 - 05:54 AM.

[TexAce]

found it

[Marmon Rzohr]

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 05:36 AM, said:

Nope destroying a side torso definitely didnt slow down the mech. Just made it generate more heat.

Really ? Thx for the correction, I was sure there was a movement effect

TexAss, on 09 September 2013 - 05:49 AM, said:

This is not true. The missile boxes will have their own section in the paperdoll. It won't be arms, nor side torsos, nor CT.

There is a screenshot of a UI glitch somewhere in this forum showing that the sections already are in place, just hidden.

I'm not so sure, wouldn't seperate hitboxes generate a bunch of problems ? Such as the armor weighing much more, because it would be like having 2 extra arms, and the fact that it would make such mechs much harder to disarm compared to "standard" ones ?

[Kaarde]

B3RZ3RK3R, on 08 September 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

Don't forget them 12 medium lasers, 12 Clan ER medium lasers! If you have a good tracking with your pew pew, lights are going to be a scarce sight

Meh, with the Ghost heat in place you couldn't alpha them without roasting yourself. Personally I'd advocate splitting them up into four weapons groups and firing them off that way.

[TexAce]

Marmon Rzohr, on 09 September 2013 - 05:55 AM, said:

Really ? Thx for the correction, I was sure there was a movement effect


I'm not so sure, wouldn't seperate hitboxes generate a bunch of problems ? Such as the armor weighing much more, because it would be like having 2 extra arms, and the fact that it would make such mechs much harder to disarm compared to "standard" ones ?

I'm just stating what I saw. And I posted a picture of it a post above yours.

[Khobai]

Quote

This is not true. The missile boxes will have their own section in the paperdoll. It won't be arms, nor side torsos, nor CT.

Thats purely speculation. And quite frankly it would be idiotic to give clan mechs that advantage but not extend the same advantage to IS mechs.

Quote

There is a screenshot of a UI glitch somewhere in this forum showing that the sections already are in place, just hidden.

Its a UI glitch. There is absolutely no correlation between that and a madcat.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 06:44 AM, said:

Thats purely speculation. And quite frankly it would be idiotic to give clan mechs that advantage but not extend the same advantage to IS mechs.

I don't think that's really an advantage. The pods are so high above the torso that the pods would probably never absorb fire intended for the torsos if they were separate hitboxes. And the high pods will also make the mech partially expose itself before it can even see over a ridge. Not to mention, it would be hilariously easy to tear the ears off and remove the Mad Kitteh's missile capabilities (unless they allow other body parts to hold missiles, depending on how they implement Omnimechs).


But yes, having seperate pods for existing mechs like the Hunchie or upcoming ones like the Thunderbolt would certainly make sense (the Hunchie actually NEEDS something like this).

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2013 - 06:51 AM.

[Kaox Veed]

MeiSooHaityu, on 09 September 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

10 Tons heavier than a Catapult (75 ton mech) and yet was also renowned for it speed. I am thinking a 90+ kph (maybe close to 100KPH) possible Heavy with a pretty nice loadout. It could be a very nice mech.

Omnimechs can't modify their structural components or engines.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think that's really an advantage. The pods are so high above the torso that the pods would probably never absorb fire intended for the torsos if they were separate hitboxes.

Of course its an advantage. Youre compartmentalizing your side torso weapons separately from your XL engine. Youre getting all the benefits of having high mounted weapons without the drawback of having your side torso shot out.

Quote

And the high pods will also make the mech partially expose itself before it can even see over a ridge

IS mechs already have that disadvantage. Like the Catapult. Or an even worse case IMO is the Atlas' head which can be shot at while its cresting a ridge long before its weapons clear the ridge to shoot back. Under that logic, the Atlas' head shouldnt count as part of its center torso.

So far PGI has kept crit slots identical to tabletop so theres no reason to believe theyll be adding this missile pod nonsense.

Edited by Khobai, 09 September 2013 - 07:00 AM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

Of course its an advantage. You're compartmentalizing your side torso weapons separately from your XL engine. You're getting all the benefits of having high mounted weapons without the drawback of having your side torso shot out.

High mounted weapons only make an impact if they're ballistics or energy. For missiles the effect would be negligible due to LRMs not requiring the user to target specific hitboxes and SRMs are just close range. Also, the drawback to the pods is that THEY WOULD BE EASIER TO SHOOT OFF THAN A HUNCHBACK'S HUNCH. A lot easier.

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

IS mechs already have that disadvantage. Like the Catapult. Like an Atlas' head can be shot at while its cresting a ridge long before its weapons clear the ridge to shoot back. Under that logic, the Atlases head shouldnt count as part of its center torso.

I don't think you understood my post. I didn't say the Kitty had to shoot over the hill, I said he had to see over the hill. The Atlas's camera is in the head, meaning that he can still see over the hill despite not being able to fire. As for the Catapult, the arms are mounted lower than the Mad Cat's pods. A lot lower. Especially on the K2, which is very very good at peeking over a hill and taking a shot before anybody has enough time to return fire against it.

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 06:56 AM, said:

So far PGI has kept crit slots identical to tabletop so theres no reason to believe theyll be adding this missile pod nonsense.

They've also ****** up mechs like the Awesome and Kintaro, so there's no reason to believe they'll be making the Mad Cat more survivable than the average medium.

Edited by FupDup, 09 September 2013 - 07:15 AM.

[Khobai]

Quote

I don't think you understood my post. I didn't say the Kitty had to shoot over the hill, I said he had to see over the hill. The Atlas's camera is in the head, meaning that he can still see over the hill despite not being able to fire.

Oh i just use 3PV to make sure I dont get shot at when I crest.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 09 September 2013 - 07:07 AM, said:

Oh i just use 3PV to make sure I dont get shot at when I crest.

That's a whole different can of worms. The question is, will the Kitteh's pods be positioned that they are targetable even while using 3PV? Only the art team has the answer to this one...

[C E Dwyer]

Fred013, on 07 September 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

Oops, I meant Timberwolf.
http://www.nogutsnog...opic,936.0.html
Bryan Ekman says they have a Madwolf in testing. That means we'll be getting a Timbercat Soon^TM!

and just how long is soon..I mean cw and ui2 are 9-12 months late.. so soon acording to BE time scale could mean 2015

[CrashieJ]

all you {Noble MechWarriors} spooging yourselves over the "Tumblewimp"

I'll be waiting for the THOR, why?

so I can pretend to be this guy:


DERP

Edited by gavilatius, 09 September 2013 - 07:17 AM.