173 replies to this topic

[Nick Makiaveli]

I get it. You have a new mech, or a new loadout and you need to change up your controls. But one small piece of advice.

What where the *transmission garbled* you are shooting at the beginning of a map. Not all of us have mechs who speed is measured in inches per hour. I just absolutely LOVE starting a battle with half my leg armor blown off or having some SRMs shoved up my exhaust ports.

Some light mechs max out an armor location under 30 ya know. If I am running gun heavy, probably not at max which means yes I have lost all my leg armor before even spotting an enemy.

Thanks and have a nice day.

***EDIT***
Adding the below as it is a great summary

Tesunie, on 25 September 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

So, here is my question to help the topic:
What can be done to prevent this from happening?

So far, I've seen this list causes for why someone shoots at the start of the match:
- I like hearing my weapons fire.
- I don't want to waste time in the testing grounds.
- I can't help myself from shooting my weapons.
- I'm too lazy and impatient.
- I alt-tab out of the game while it is match finding or loading the screen so I can do other things, and then when I click into the game it accidentally fires all my weapons, sometimes resulting in friendly fire.
- Sometimes a bug happens which is outside my control that fires all my weapons.
- Sometimes, while I type, it didn't type but instead it fires my weapon groups.
- Sometimes, instead of hitting f4 (or whatever), I hit the number 4, shooting off all weapons in group 4.
(Did I miss any?)

So, what are possible solutions to these problems?
- Testing grounds. You can test heat endurance, weapon reload, damage output, etc.
- If you have to test in a match, you can turn around and shoot the (more than likely) wall behind your mech, inconveniencing only yourself and not your team. Also helps minimize risk of friendly fire.
- Wait about 10-20 seconds into the match for the faster mechs to remove themselves from the group and go where they are going, and then commence weapons test.
- Change weapon group 1 to be blank, and upon start of match use the arrow keys to select weapon group 3, having that set up as what weapon group 1 would be.
- Report a fire bug when you see if happen. If you can repeat it, include what you did to make it happen.
- Try to make sure you are typing into chat, but sometimes it will happen. No suggestions from me here.
- Try to make sure you are hitting the correct button, but accidents do happen. Apologize and move on.

Anyone else have anything to add? Did I miss anything? Any other user side solutions that others can think of to counter some of these problems? Any suggestions one can make to PGI to make it less penalizing to the team or to punish the responsible person more?

For PGI, I'd suggest some of the following ideas to consider:
- Make mechs immune to friendly fire for the first 10 seconds of the match. (I do not recommend this, but it could solve the problem.)
- Make FF penalties apply to damage only. The more damage you cause to a friendly mech, the worse the penalty. Keep or remove the current teamkill penalty. I'd suggest removing the teamkill and replace with team damage. Make it similar, but more expensive, to damage done rewards. (Make it like Damage Done/Component Destruction rewards, but as penalties and maybe at twice the rate. That way, you blow off a friendly mechs arm, you pay for the component destruction.)
- In combination of FF damage and/or teamkill penalties, maybe have these penalties be shifted as an income for the person on the receiving end of the damage. (You blow off my arm, you pay for new arm. Just like with a car and an accident. You damaged my car and it's your fault, you pay for the damages.)
- Disable weapons fire for the first 10 seconds of the game. (Would probably help prevent sniping from base to base in river city too.) (I do not recommend this.)
- Try to enforce testing grounds more. Possibly have mechlab as a spot on a map, and testing ground is your default area where you load in? Then you can walk to your mechbay for mechlab construction and mech changing, and when you exit the mechlab, you enter into a testing ground area. From the testing ground area, you can launch into missions. If we have lobbies, testing grounds could also be merged with a "while you wait" area. (Random idea, probably require a lot of work.)


I think I'm out of ideas at the moment. So, any other ideas other people have?

Edited by Nick Makiaveli, 29 September 2013 - 07:48 AM.

[scJazz]

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2724640

probably the best fix evah... just wish they would implement it!

[Nick Makiaveli]

scJazz, on 12 September 2013 - 09:31 AM, said:

http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2724640

probably the best fix evah... just wish they would implement it!

That would go a long way to stopping it. Just get pissed that I have to either sit and wait, then play dodge the Assault mech to try to get back up in front, or risk getting my assets shot off.....

[Sadistic Savior]

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 September 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

I get it. You have a new mech, or a new loadout and you need to change up your controls. But one small piece of advice.

What where the *transmission garbled* you are shooting at the beginning of a map. Not all of us have mechs who speed is measured in inches per hour. I just absolutely LOVE starting a battle with half my leg armor blown off or having some SRMs shoved up my exhaust ports.

Some light mechs max out an armor location under 30 ya know. If I am running gun heavy, probably not at max which means yes I have lost all my leg armor before even spotting an enemy.

Thanks and have a nice day.

For the most part I agree with you...but

FFS, you're the one in the fast mech. Why are you running in front of me anyway? These are big maps. You do not need to have your *** in my face.

I have only actually hit someone once that I remember. I felt awful about it, but the guy started bitching and I saw where it was going, so I just left the game and went to a new one. Technically it is my fault, but not running in front of other mechs at the start of the game would also solve the problem.

(This is a game and people get bored at the start of these maps, and it is also a good time to test weapon grouping and heat...this is something that is not going away. Sorry)

[vettie]

My solution is a bit simplistic but it works damn well...

When I try a new load out or a new mech, BEFORE I go into battle with real live friendlies and enemies, I go to the Testing Grounds to set my weapons groups and test the ROF and HEAT. I got a pretty good idea that that is why they put the Testing Grounds in there. Other than a computer malfunction or keyboard lockup (not happened in 8 or so patches), I have not hit a friendly a launch since the Testing Grounds were introduced.

I might also add that i dont fire at launch either. Nothing good can come of this. That friendly that just took a 40pt alpha COULD possibly protect you butt in just a few minutes, that is, if he isnt dead from the addition of enemy fire in the area of the friendly fire...

Testing Grounds - It works...

[Unnatural Growth]

Earlier today on Alpine assault mode, I had a guy in a Spider shoot me in the back after we had already started moving out of the drop zone. I was in my Hunchback, and stopped, turned around and went right up in his face. He started swinging his arms and torso back and forth like mad, but never said a word.

I seriously thought about giving him a full alpha to the head (7 ML's and an ERLL should have jogged his brain box), but I did not. I did type, "Thanks for the friendly fire" in team chat.

Not even that brought an apology out of him.

He then ran off and cap rushed the enemy base, and got wiped out for his trouble.

Sigh.

It's just so preventable.

Edited by OldOrgandonor, 12 September 2013 - 06:13 PM.

[VanWinK1LL]

Sadistic Savior, on 12 September 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

For the most part I agree with you...but

FFS, you're the one in the fast mech. Why are you running in front of me anyway? These are big maps. You do not need to have your *** in my face.

For real? You're blaming the light mechs, the ones that are supposed to go ahead of you to scout, for getting shot in the back and starting the game with a handicap? That's some messed up logic. Maybe, instead, trigger happy jerks can show some self restraint and not "test" their weapons (trust me, they'll work) when there's a good chance they'll hit a teammate.

Stop making excuses for this pointless behavior and use the testing grounds. They're there for a reason.

[Sadistic Savior]

VanWinK1LL, on 12 September 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

For real?

For real.

You know people will test weapons. You run into their line of fire anyway. If you know what the result will be, why do you do it?

Quote

You're blaming the light mechs, the ones that are supposed to go ahead of you to scout

They do not need to be dead center in front of me to do that. The maps are big.

Quote

Stop making excuses for this pointless behavior and use the testing grounds. They're there for a reason.

I'll do my best not to shoot you if I see you. But if you insist on crossing right in front of me, you are taking a risk. Sorry.

OldOrgandonor, on 12 September 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Earlier today on Alpine assault mode, I had a guy in a Spider shoot me in the back after we had already started moving out of the drop zone. I was in my Hunchback, and stopped, turned around and went right up in his face. He started swinging his arms and torso back and forth like mad, but never said a word.

I seriously thought about giving him a full alpha to the head (7 ML's and an ERLL should have jogged his brain box), but I did not. I did type, "Thanks for the friendly fire" in team chat.

Not even that brought an apology out of him.

In his defense, an apology is pretty pointless after that. He knows he screwed up. Apologizing won't fix anything and won't placate the person shot. Everytime I have seen someone apologize this has been the case.

I have been shot in the back lots of times...I never bothered to ask for an apology because I didn't see the point. One time I knew for sure it was on purpose...instead of asking for an apology I legged him and then let him kill me.

[StarGeezer]

With the possible exception of teammates who sidle up right behind you in a confined space (limiting your egress), people who start off matches by firing their weapons is one of my biggest peeves. It's unnecessarily dangerous to your fellow mechs, can feasibly give away your position to the enemy, and is generally pointless. Even if you have to rework your weapons groups on the fly for whatever reason, they're going to fire however you have them set up, "test fire" notwithstanding.

And yes, Mr. Sadistic, it is PRECISELY because I've had the hide torn off me too many times that I make a habit of either bringing up the rear or swinging way out to the side to avoid such "mishaps." In my admittedly limited time in the game (just past 500 drops, in about 4 weeks) I have only misfired once at the beginning of a match due to the ALT-TAB glitch, and I just take pains not to repeat that in the future. Thankfully, I didn't hit the guy in front of me in the process (shot right over his head though...missed him by thiiiis much! )

[Tesunie]

Sadistic Savior, on 12 September 2013 - 12:25 PM, said:

For the most part I agree with you...but

FFS, you're the one in the fast mech. Why are you running in front of me anyway? These are big maps. You do not need to have your *** in my face.

I have only actually hit someone once that I remember. I felt awful about it, but the guy started bitching and I saw where it was going, so I just left the game and went to a new one. Technically it is my fault, but not running in front of other mechs at the start of the game would also solve the problem.

(This is a game and people get bored at the start of these maps, and it is also a good time to test weapon grouping and heat...this is something that is not going away. Sorry)

We may be in the fast mech, but that doesn't excuse the fact people DON'T have to unload weapons (wasting ammo most times) for no reason at all in a live fire match. You want to test your weapons? Test them in the Testing Grounds. Your configurations will last from match to match (though may get reset on a patch from time to time), and your weapons will honestly fire.

I have never shot my weapons off in the start of a match. And, before testing grounds was in, if I needed to test my weapons fire (for matching location like lasers on right arm all being shot at the same time), I AIM FOR THE GROUND or HIGH INTO THE SKY. Straight in front of your mech is ASKING to hit a friendly mech trying to move into position. It is not the allies fault the weapons fire happened to hit him, it is the person who shot the weapon's fault to have fired the weapon in the first place. It's as bad as blaming someone in real life for being in front of the gun when it fired, instead of the person who pulled the trigger and fired the weapon. I'm sure that it wouldn't fly in a court of law, why should it fly here? (Some exceptions may apply)

As for big maps, yeah, most of them are big. However, everyone loads in the same small corner of the map. It can't be helped if I have to cross in front of my team to get to, oh say, Kappa in Conquest. Fast mechs are going to move, and fast, in the start of the game. Probably should plan on it, and, if you must, test your weapons later on in the match.


As for apologizing, if you say "Sorry I hit you", I'm sure most people don't mind. Accidents do happen. Not saying anything at all makes it feel like you either did it intentionally, or you don't care. Personally, when I see friendly fire happen early in the game, I will watch the person (and if I'm slower or same speed) and aim my weapons at them. If I see it again, I will shoot. Done it on an Awesome a long while back that decided it would be funny to unload his weapons into my Stalker, twice. I dropped his health by 5% in a single alpha after he hit me for a second time. That seemed to be enough to snap him out of it and move on.

[Sadistic Savior]

Tesunie, on 13 September 2013 - 10:49 AM, said:

As for apologizing, if you say "Sorry I hit you", I'm sure most people don't mind.

That has not been my experience. Most of them are (justifiably) irritated about it, and they let you know it, accident or no.

Whether I am on the receiving end or the one doing it, whenever it happens I just quit and start a new game. There is no real way to salvage it. (Unless I think they did it on purpose, in which case I get revenge first).

[Unnatural Growth]

Sadistic Savior, on 13 September 2013 - 10:12 AM, said:

In his defense, an apology is pretty pointless after that. He knows he screwed up. Apologizing won't fix anything and won't placate the person shot. Everytime I have seen someone apologize this has been the case.

Actually it depends on the person. And in this case, you are wrong. An apology goes a long ways towards restoring trust between team mates. It is basically down to trust. You have your back turned to several strangers on your "team", and you are trusting them not to be stupid and shoot you. If one does, then you want to know if they even recognize their stupidity or not.

The apology indicates there is a remote chance this player is not a complete block of wood, or a griefer. Neither of those can be trusted behind you with weapons.

The lack of an apology causes my finger to hover over the alpha strike key while I try to decide their fate.

[Sheraf]

Learning not to run in front of someone firing line is hard but worth it in the end Sometimes I still make that mistake, but that is my fault

Edited by Sheraf, 14 September 2013 - 10:59 AM.

[John Buford]

Well I like the sound of wubwubwub that SPL make so when I am on my JR7-F I will test fire them ONCE at the start of a battle. however I will make sure I am off to the side and have clear arcs of fire. Then and only then will I fire a short burst into the ground next to me. Oh and make sure to please pretty please with sugar on top fire into the air when ever you can. Just makes it that much easier for me to find you when I am scouting.

[Project Chaos]

Nick Makiaveli, on 12 September 2013 - 09:24 AM, said:

I get it. You have a new mech, or a new loadout and you need to change up your controls. But one small piece of advice.

What where the *transmission garbled* you are shooting at the beginning of a map. Not all of us have mechs who speed is measured in inches per hour. I just absolutely LOVE starting a battle with half my leg armor blown off or having some SRMs shoved up my exhaust ports.

Some light mechs max out an armor location under 30 ya know. If I am running gun heavy, probably not at max which means yes I have lost all my leg armor before even spotting an enemy.

Thanks and have a nice day.

This is why noobs should always check out the training grounds before they go into battle & ruin their team's time in combat.

I am a super noob, and am unable to even play MWO right now (til my PC gets here) but I have watched enough videos from NGNG to know not to shoot my own teammates.

[Tesunie]

Sheraf, on 14 September 2013 - 10:59 AM, said:

Learning not to run in front of someone firing line is hard but worth it in the end Sometimes I still make that mistake, but that is my fault

So, basically I should "cower in fear" behind my allies as I can't "cross" their "arcs of fire" or it will be my fault if I get shot.... Riiiight. Or they can just control their itchy trigger finger for a few moments longer into the match when everyone has already started to find their paths on the map, then test fire their weapon when they know it is safe.

However, the exception to this is when I'm running around someone, and I "run into" their fire. Then it's my bad. I ran in front of your guns in a live action fire fight, and you just happened to fire your guns at your target and I ran in the way. That, is different.

[MortVent]

had one throw a fit about running in front of my mech in a firefight... if you don't notice a catapult launching missiles and shooting lasers while backing up. You deserve my initials carved in your butt for running in front of me.

Also had someone core a raven I was testing out... full alpha strike from behind at start.

Been dinged a few times lately, but also up armored all my cats so not so bad (unless it's to the rump)

Gotten into the habit of sidestepping and following up in the rear anyway now as a lrm boat pilot, or as support to others from flankers. It's sad that it's also to keep my allies from burning me down out of boredom

[Mao of DC]

I had something similar to this happen to me the other day. I was running my Victor and just happened to be spawned at the front of our group. So I hit max throttle and started moving out. Then some guy in a Kintaro cuts in front of me and I stepped on him. So he starts raising hell about how I need to learn to drive. I was walking in a straight line I hadn't touched the left or right yet. So I asked him how it was my fault that he got stepped on when, I was ahead of him and hadn't changed direction yet. His response was, "Well didn't you see me? I'm in a big mech you stupid f***er." I was like " No I didn't see you as I was in front of you.". The conversation quickly went downhill from there. So I suggest to all the fast moving mech pilots out there be aware of where and how fast the larger slower mechs are. What are these dumb *** pilots going to do when collisions are put back into the game. During closed beta we had to get skilled at avoiding other mechs or run the risk of falling down. In fact I wish they never took it out the level of driving skills was much higher then. Something about taking damage AND falling down does that. Yes the tackling Dragons sucked but I learned to DODGE the Dragon and so did everyone else. Also people didn't stop RIGHT behind other mechs as much. But that is another pet peeve of mine. If a mech comes to a corner and starts to back up because they need cover. Don't stand in the way so that they get pummeled then killed. It isn't in your best interests to do so.

Edited by Mao of DC, 14 September 2013 - 07:23 PM.

[Tesunie]

Mao of DC, on 14 September 2013 - 07:20 PM, said:

I had something similar to this happen to me the other day. I was running my Victor and just happened to be spawned at the front of our group. So I hit max throttle and started moving out. Then some guy in a Kintaro cuts in front of me and I stepped on him. So he starts raising hell about how I need to learn to drive. I was walking in a straight line I hadn't touched the left or right yet. So I asked him how it was my fault that he got stepped on when, I was ahead of him and hadn't changed direction yet. His response was, "Well didn't you see me? I'm in a big mech you stupid f***er." I was like " No I didn't see you as I was in front of you.". The conversation quickly went downhill from there. So I suggest to all the fast moving mech pilots out there be aware of where and how fast the larger slower mechs are. What are these dumb *** pilots going to do when collisions are put back into the game. During closed beta we had to get skilled at avoiding other mechs or run the risk of falling down. In fact I wish they never took it out the level of driving skills was much higher then. Something about taking damage AND falling down does that. Yes the tackling Dragons sucked but I learned to DODGE the Dragon and so did everyone else. Also people didn't stop RIGHT behind other mechs as much. But that is another pet peeve of mine. If a mech comes to a corner and starts to back up because they need cover. Don't stand in the way so that they get pummeled then killed. It isn't in your best interests to do so.

Someone actually complained about the 1 point of damage caused by ramming?

Anyway, the problem we are talking about isn't so much ramming, but being shot at during "weapon's testing" at the start of the match. If you had shot him instead of him running into you, I could see his complaint.

People that creep up to your rear are rather annoying, and potentially deadly too.

Good news, last I knew, they where going to put knockdown back, eventually...

[Mao of DC]

Tesunie, on 14 September 2013 - 07:27 PM, said:

Someone actually complained about the 1 point of damage caused by ramming?

Anyway, the problem we are talking about isn't so much ramming, but being shot at during "weapon's testing" at the start of the match. If you had shot him instead of him running into you, I could see his complaint.

People that creep up to your rear are rather annoying, and potentially deadly too.

Good news, last I knew, they where going to put knockdown back, eventually...

Technical with a Victor it is 8 points of damage. The formula is weight of mech/10. But yes that jackass complained about it. I know they are putting it back in just wish they would do it soon. One of the main reasons they took it out was that when you fell it went to 3rd person. Well they put 3rd person in the game so why not put collisions back in already.