70 replies to this topic

[Felio]

First, it's completely impossible for there to be a hitbox problem without PGI doing it deliberately. They use software to place the hitboxes and would be able to see any gaps or omissions.

What people might be doing is confusing hitboxes with hit detection. And if there's a problem with hit detection, which is certainly possible, it would affect all mechs equally. All hits are determined by the same code, regardless of mech.

Here's where I think confirmation bias comes in. Someone reads on the forums or in chat that Spiders have bugged hitboxes, and they start paying more attention to hit detection on Spiders.

When they hit one, no big deal, that sort of thing happens all the time, and it's supposed to. When they just barely miss or there is a hit detection problem, it sticks out in their mind and they remember it -- it confirms their belief, which gets stronger.

They aren't paying as much attention to hit detection on other mechs, so they are more likely to chalk up missing to actually missing, and it isn't remembered -- even if they are, in fact, running into a hit detection problem.

[Xtrekker]

I don't know, I think right now a Spider is involved in my death at least 50% of the time (some nights it seems like 100%). Straight on running in and running out, it still doesn't seem to matter what you hit them with, they take way more than an assault to pull down, if at all. Even when I bring out the AC40, I'm lucky to get better than yellow armor.

I finally gave up and built a Spider last night. From my experience of jumping into a brand new Spider, loaded up with goodies, but no pilot bonus, and never having run one before -- yes, for a 30 ton mech, it is OP and IMO broken. I led one match with 3 kills and soaked up a ridiculous amount of damage.

Don't know what the cause is, but then again, I'm not supposed to need to know that.

[Vexidious]

To answer your question: No.

[The Boz]

Felio, on 13 September 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

Could the Spider hitbox problem be just a meme perpetuated by confirmation bias?

No.

[Felio]

At least use a grumpy cat pic when you say that.

[Risko Vinsheen]

It is. Because with the hit registration issues I've had a harder time registering hits on Atlases and Highlanders than Spiders.

[Deathsani]

I don't think I agree with you, but this was a well posed argument. Thank you for classing up the forums a bit.

[Mindwyrm]

I know it's not bias when I shoot a spider in the back at 127m and he doesn't take damage. This wasn't an illusion, and I wasn't hallucinating. I shot him with a standard ppc from my commando.

[GRiPSViGiL]

Hit detection seems to be hit or miss for me. There are times I kill 2 Spider's circling me in 4 consecutive AC20 rounds and other times were I don't so much as scratch a light mech after mutiple ballistic hits. I don't notice the issue as much with lazers obviously because you have more time to do the damage but it can be frustrating when things are not on sync with what you see on the screen.

Edited by GRiPSViGiL, 13 September 2013 - 10:57 PM.

[DarkDevilDancer]

I've fired point blank at a legged spider and registered no hit, its not a meme its just a statement of fact they are bugged where HSR is concerned.

[Foxfire]

The problem isn't the hit box.. it is HSR.

[Ozric]

This is a totally valid question, and one I have put considerable effort into testing myself. As far as I can tell the HSR issues, or whatever the problem with lights is, do indeed effect all light mechs to some extent. The main factors seem to be top speed and overall size and are most apparent with Spiders and Jenners, but anything going 150 is trouble. Ravens have some problems with their skinny legs, as do Cicadas, but their torso's are big enough to offset this, and the unlucky commando with its urbanmech-like compactness is still pretty vulnerable.

So is there any difference between a Spider and a Jenner? I think there is. An unhittable Jenner is certainly more frustrating, and more dangerous, because the firepower on the tiny invulnerable frame can cut you down as fast as a medium mech, but Spiders last longer. Don't get me wrong, I consider myself a good Spider pilot and I know that when the stars align I can match anyones performance. But I am a god in my 5D right now, and unless I am in a mech that itself moves at 150+ I will rarely engage someone that is.

TL/DR
Yes, there are problems with light mech hit detection (or something).
Yes, Spiders are the most broken.

[Felio]

Ozric, on 14 September 2013 - 06:14 AM, said:

TL/DR
Yes, there are problems with light mech hit detection (or something).
Yes, Spiders are the most broken.

I'm totally open to the possibility that whatever the problem is, something about spiders (small, fast, jumpy?) makes them more suceptible to it.

That's what I mean by it affecting all mechs equally. Sort of like the wind: It blows on everything equally, but a kite is going to get tossed into the air.

[BillyM]

So, taking Psychology 101 this semester?

...lol, no. Spiders are broken, flat out.

[Faithsfall]

When i fire a ac/20 round which i see passes through a stationry spider that is firing at me, without any dmg being registered then yes there is a problem with spiders.

[Euri Yggdrasil]

I have had some issues with Spiders but I never really concerned myself with the supposed bugged Hit Registers.
That changed last night when I was dead in my Assault, and watching a Spider pilot on Tourmaline. He kept overheating, and the opposing mechs pummeled him, and next to nothing registered...on a shutdown, immobile mech. Definitely something wrong.

[Angel of Annihilation]

Felio, on 13 September 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

First, it's completely impossible for there to be a hitbox problem without PGI doing it deliberately. They use software to place the hitboxes and would be able to see any gaps or omissions.

What people might be doing is confusing hitboxes with hit detection. And if there's a problem with hit detection, which is certainly possible, it would affect all mechs equally. All hits are determined by the same code, regardless of mech.

Here's where I think confirmation bias comes in. Someone reads on the forums or in chat that Spiders have bugged hitboxes, and they start paying more attention to hit detection on Spiders.

When they hit one, no big deal, that sort of thing happens all the time, and it's supposed to. When they just barely miss or there is a hit detection problem, it sticks out in their mind and they remember it -- it confirms their belief, which gets stronger.

They aren't paying as much attention to hit detection on other mechs, so they are more likely to chalk up missing to actually missing, and it isn't remembered -- even if they are, in fact, running into a hit detection problem.

I think 99% of the complaints are this.

PPCs are popular so people die to them and if they die to them, well it must be OPed because they are such LEET players they shouldn't die to anything. That person who dies comes to the forum and posts a complaint.

Others come to the forums, read the complaint and think to themselves, "Wow, I too died to a PPC. Since I have UBER LEET SKILZ, it must be that PPCs are OPed since obviously someone else thinks they are too.".

The another person jumps into the thread. He has a different view and posts that they are fine. However there are already 3 UBER LEETS that have posted they were killed by the PPC so it must be OPed and he finds himself on a Island.

More people join the conversation, read how 3 out of 4 people think the PPC is overpowered and well since the majority of people think the PPC is OPed, it must be true.

Eventually the thread gets to 100 posters. 80 of them are from UBER LEETS who got killed by PPCs and just know they are OPed, 20 are the voice of reason but they are the minority so they MUST just be trying to protect their favorite weapon and are the ones that ABUSE the use of these OPed weapons.

Finally, 10 different threads are born, all spouting the same jibberish from UBER LEETS about how the PPC is OP and anyone who claims different is either an Abuser or a Baddie because how can anyone question the UBER LEETS authority on this subject.

Thus a NERF is born.

[DarkDevilDancer]

We don't want spiders merged, I myself like to jump around in one from time to time.

What we want is equality, it's not right that hit detection works fine on heavies and assaults but makes spiders near immortal, I've experienced it from both sides and it's an issue that needs fixing.

[Angel of Annihilation]

DarkDevilDancer, on 14 September 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

We don't want spiders merged, I myself like to jump around in one from time to time.

What we want is equality, it's not right that hit detection works fine on heavies and assaults but makes spiders near immortal, I've experienced it from both sides and it's an issue that needs fixing.

Hit detection doesn't always work fine on heavies and assaults. I distinctly remember a few weeks ago where I was shooting a Atlas in his big head (not cockpit unforunately) because it was the only thing visable and the hits kept registering as me hitting his legs.

Also the average survival rate of my Spiders, ironically is exactly the same as the average survival rate on all my mechs. If the Spiders truly had hitbox issues, I should have seen a huge increase in survivability instead.

Honestly I think the issue is more tied to ping than anything else. If you have a low ping as I do, the Spider takes hits pretty normally, if you have a high ping, then hit registration becomes an issue. This is the only way I can explain why my Spider die just quick as any other mech I own while some spiders can take Dual AC/20 bursts to the Chest and not even flinch.

Edited by Viktor Drake, 14 September 2013 - 09:48 AM.

[Superslicks]

well I still think its has something to do with the so called lag exploit, I've had lights and spiders, and I had no problem in dying when using them, because I don't suffer from lag