70 replies to this topic

[Laban]

Hmm, interesting thread. I own 3 spiders, 3 atlases, 3 cataphracts. I can say from maxing out all 9, the spiders are definitely good on surviability as long as I'm not stupid. Granted, sometimes I'm stupid, or just unlucky. Like... the time a {Richard Cameron} teammate blew off my leg at the start of a match.... for no apparent reason. (maybe he was against me in a prior game, who knows. Meh.) I haven't noticed any spider hit box issues when using them, or killing them... with either my spiders or my other mechs. My favorite mech to use (and one I have my best kill to death ratio) is definitely my Ilya Murets. Followed closely by my Atlases. I'll keep an eye on it, and see if I have any issues... I can say this though. I learned to kill spiders by playing one and asking another spider player their thoughts. I always shoot for the legs. Always. I shoot a little infront of where they are running, and right at the ground with any balistics, and right at the legs with lasers. I hardly ever have any more issue with Spiders than any other small mechs. The small mechs that give me the biggest issue are actually jenners. I have one of those too heh. Ironically, they have more armor on the legs than spiders. Perhaps that is why blowing off the legs is the best anti-spider tactic I've found and the one I stick with. Regardless though, I'll start trying to core them and see if it is missing the hit box or not registering. Probably after I leg the little f'ers so I can hit them.

[Xtrekker]

Well I can say that after a couple of days running around in the Spider (cleared basic last night), I'm rather enjoying my invulnerability. I've always tried not to jump on board with the current meta exploit (never ever even thought about buying a 3L), so this is a bit of a change for me.

A lot of people miss...shots all over the place. But a lot of people hit, and I know I take more damage than many of my heavies. The damage is always spread out all over the place -- I've ended many matches with next to no armor left. And that's just because I like to brawl...in a 30 tonner. In a larger mech, that seldom happens as people see where I am damaged and can actually aim.

If I'm lucky, people just give up and I sting them to death with my pew pew. If they don't give up, I'm doing my job as a harasser.

I think it's a mix. There's definitely something broken as I absolutely know when I should have taken more damage from a volley.

I know in MWLL there was a speed barrier due to CryEngine 2. Didn't mean much until aerospace was introduced. I want to say that cap was 150 kph (but I'm not sure if I remember that correctly, it's been a few years). And if I recall, it wasn't an actual limitation, but an issue with performance and the server registering positions correctly. You traveled faster than the server could update the client. The solution is to guess where an object will be, i.e. HSR. I wonder if this is some residual engine limitation in CryEngine 3?

[Laban]

I would have to say "invulnerabilty" is a definite exageration. Are you hard to hit when moving at 152 kph? Yep. I have tagged spiders using both my ilya and my atlases when they were going balls out though. I'd suggest we keep the discussion away from blatant exageration though, it does little to help further the developement of the thread in a possitive or truthful direction.

I will say this, hitting light mechs.. especially Jenners and Spiders... is hard as hell with anything other than lasers (accross the legs) and lbx 10. I actually ran the LBX10 in my Ilya specifially for Spiders and it worked pretty well... lead the shot and they run right into a spray of ****. As I stated, I'll take a look at hit locations when I'm killing them later (since... they don't seem to be "invulnerable" when I'm legging them with lasers) as that may be a very valid point to this thread. I know their legs register alright though, and their legs have **** for armor.

More useful insights by folks testing hit locations would be appreciated over hyperbole.

[Xtrekker]

I'll excuse myself from your one-sided argument then, as you possibly cannot tell me what my experience has been thus far, and yet here you are devoting paragraphs to it.

[TheNef]

Yes you're correct and the same issues exist with other mechs of every weight. Every other mech other than the spider however gets a pass in most instances because its not a spider.

[Koniving]

Risko Vinsheen, on 13 September 2013 - 10:29 PM, said:

It is. Because with the hit registration issues I've had a harder time registering hits on Atlases and Highlanders than Spiders.

Agreed. Someone fired 3 ER PPCs back to back against my flamer stalker at less than 400 meters while running. All three gave impulse, made me shake, gave him the register (we were on coms and synch-dropped to fight each other), etc. I was still 100% health for all 3 PPCs. It wasn't until he fired a laser that I got damage.

[Mehlan]

You've got a post by niko saying that small-fast targets need to you lead the target..... then there's another dev saything there is indeed an issue with some weapons and how hit detection takes place and damage is applied. Meanwhile despite that you have people that will swear up and down that it is just the 'spider'.

[Equalizer]

Well, whatever the issue with the Spider may be, there certainly is a problem with hitting them. Just a couple of minutes ago I unloaded 9 Medium lasers alpha into a stationary Spider - was aiming for the CT, a little below he head and BAM - not a scratch on the freakin' thing. It didn't even bother to move so I shot one of its legs next and since that hit did actually register, it finally ran away. That very same game one of my teammates complained that he shot a stationary Spider with AC20 + 4 ML alpha and it did nothing. I'm not quite sure what to make of this TBH - might be hit reg problems or hit box problems or both, but all other lights can be hit much, much more reliably in comparison.

[MisterFiveSeven]

Koniving, on 09 October 2013 - 08:50 AM, said:

Agreed. Someone fired 3 ER PPCs back to back against my flamer stalker at less than 400 meters while running. All three gave impulse, made me shake, gave him the register (we were on coms and synch-dropped to fight each other), etc. I was still 100% health for all 3 PPCs. It wasn't until he fired a laser that I got damage.

Hence the confirmation bias.

If all shots have a 5% change of not regging, and you are shooting at the smallest, fastest target possible, you are going to have a much harder time differentiating between that 5% and HSR and the quality of your aim (say 30-50% hit rate with ballistics?).

My registration seems to be plagued by Victors, dunno why. But it's definitely not the spider, just registration in general.

[KnightedChaos]

I do believe it is a HSR thing, I've pegged a virgin atlas with an AC/20 and no dmg was registered on more then one occasion, are spiders hard to hit, yes they are fast moving lanky things, do they have more hit detection issues then other mechs no, I think is just that they are hard to hit to start off with so when you score a hit and it falls into the 5% HSR bug or whatever the issue is it sticks in your head more

[Finn McShae]

Probably a mix. I do know the other night (after a month break) I was hoping the HSR was fixed but noticed that a close range, rear shot to the hip on a spider w/4 MLAS and a AC/10 all showing "red" crosshairs didn't do any damage.

[Alaskan Nobody]

MisterFiveSeven, on 09 October 2013 - 11:13 AM, said:

Hence the confirmation bias.

If all shots have a 5% change of not regging, and you are shooting at the smallest, fastest target possible, you are going to have a much harder time differentiating between that 5% and HSR and the quality of your aim (say 30-50% hit rate with ballistics?).

My registration seems to be plagued by Victors, dunno why. But it's definitely not the spider, just registration in general.

I have shot at not-moving spiders and had them register no damage.

I have shot at not-moving atlas and had them register no damage, though much less frequently, which is why the spider gets all the attention.

[Thejuggla]

It may be hitbox issues it may just be game reg causing it maybe both. I know reg isn't very good, sometimes in any big and slow mech the enemy will have a clean shot on me ill even see it hit me and hear an impact sound but my armor is still undamaged. There was one time I hit a spider 3 times with an ac20 and some random laser fire, he's still a healthy yellow he should of been at least orange in more than one spot. I don't really seem to have that much MORE problem with shots registering on a spider compared to other lights seems like anything fast and small doesn't like registering hits.

[Ngamok]

There is always this:

http://www.youtube.c...d&v=N-qab_iBB2w

And to be honest, some times I see this after hitting them myself. It varies I guess how HSR is working at the time or something.

Edited by Ngamok, 09 October 2013 - 01:10 PM.

[East Indy]

I've thought about that, but I've just seen too many — as someone else put it — "what-the-heck" incidents surrounding both friendly and enemy Spiders.

[RandomLurker]

Aim at the leading edge of a fast target. Regardless of HSR, there is still a certain amount 'lag shooting' required, just like the old days.

At least you don't have to fire into the empty space ahead of them any more.

[Ngamok]

So last night I hit a Spider with an ER PPC at about 250m. No damage registered on the paper doll. I usually have 41 ping to the game servers.

[Caswallon]

OK here's how to solve it once and for all.

1) Grab a spider,the current trial one is fine.

2) Drop in a match and find an enemy spider.

3) Fight

4) Then tell us just how unbelievably frustrating that was (or wasn't) and why.

I suspect most will find it a frustrating and difficult fight indeed. I pilot spiders and know THE LAST thing I want to fight is ANOTHER SPIDER. This is not a coincidence. Going back to the OP's premise I think there is an element of truth to it, its human nature to cry foul rather than admit a lack of skill on our own part. However I find Spiders seem disproportionately hard to get hits on compared to similar speed other lights, and I pilot them all from time to time.

[DONTOR]

The hitbox problem is an excuse for poor aim. I havent noticed any problem as of yet. Killed 3 spiders in one match in my victor with repeated AC10 hits to same area. All 3 were fresh. I have 127 ping almost always.

Edited by DONTOR, 10 October 2013 - 07:09 AM.

[Training Instructor]

Don't forget that the gameplay experience for everyone isn't the same. People shooting at mechs with dramatic geographical/ping discrepancies will often have a much different result than shooting at a mech that's being piloted by a guy in the next state.