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Gauss/ppc Problems


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#1 Decep-Qi-Kons

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:18 PM

By making these changes to the game, you've, basically, made the role of sniper so utterly impossible for all but the most dedicated player, and the learning curve so steep, that the casual gamer is being punished.

As the game stands right now, here are the problems with sniping, or effective use of the gauss or PPC right now.
  • The PPC is now painfully slow, leading, for anyone new, is going to be impossible
  • While the Gauss projectile is faster, the mechanic is crippling and is not at all intuitive
  • For the gauss, the charge up is too long and the self discharge too short to attack people poptarting or running through cover, basically any situation where you only have a glimpse of the target
  • The self-discharge is so fast, that it's hard to even line up a shot on a target once you're ready to commit
  • because of the self discharging, you can't prepare yourself againt someone moving through cover
  • Because you have to charge and shoot before you discharge, you have to open yourself up to LRMs while you negotiate the mechanic, meaning LRM's are back to being the most effective long ranged weapon
  • It is not easy to switch, mentally and contextually, from guass to the normal game mechanic. I find myself precharging weapons that don't need it, and obviously firing them too soon
  • While these two weapons were modified, no lesser used weapons like the AC10 or the LX-10X were augmented to compliment or supplement the weapons inventory to fill the void
  • good snipers will still be good snipers, new snipers will just be destroyed by them
  • when a teammate steps in front of you, it, effectively, disables your weapon if you were in the middle of operating the mechanic
  • lag, with the new gauss changes, means its hard to be prepared for mechs that are hopping around (on a related note, I had to just yell at my guest for torrenting without telling me, yes, I know how to read the ports open on my firewall, wiseguy!)
  • UPDATED: Sound queue is so inaudible in a firefight, it's disorrienting trying to use the weapon
  • UPDATED: High-impulse damage and smoke/fire effects ruin Gauss mechanic and render chargetime useless
  • UPDATED: Any medium that uses this weapon has to give up mobility while using it, rendering it more a liability than an asset
  • UPDATED: Any Assault that uses this weapon has to contend with a host of other weapons using the default game mechanic, making a critical weapon a liability
  • UPDATED: Weapon strikes on the bounding boxes of the terrain or buildings are now a frustrating and grave consequence we trying to possition your mech to line up a shot.
  • UPDATED: I obviously need a high dollar gaming mouse if I want to use this weapon because there is no room for overshooting the target when trying to beat the discharge timer.
  • UPDATED 9/07: While specialized, homogenous gauss mechs are probaby not affected by the change, what about heterogenous mechs that come with a gauss weapon, stock, and cannot fit an AC20? People with heterogenous builds are going to have a harder time keeping the Gauss in their mix of weapons and will, to them, become a liability, totally invalidating all but the most extreme of the cannonical mech designs which include the gauss
There are three ways I see that this can be improved
  • make the AC-10 and LB-10X more effective. LB-10X slugs and increases muzzle velocity for the both would certainly help. They won't hit as hard as the Gauss, but at least there will be something for the more casual sniper
  • extend the auto discharge to 5 seconds. That will allow the sniper to be better prepared for covered targets, but still combat campers. It will also give people the ability to predict discharge of an enemy and time their runs between cover
  • if none of the above, have a simple fire mechanic for the Gauss where the muzzle velocity is that of the PPC, so it can still be an effective weapon in tighter situations.
Updated: It seems to me this weapon is only effective if it is the only or primary weapon of a build, which feels counter to the table top game since a gauss rifle was something that could pretty much ALWAYS be fired. Therefore, I feel it is only the domain of the Jager or the Gauss Cat, since they are really the only two chassis than can boat two gausses.



About the only thing I have learned to improve upon my view point is that by assigning the weapon to my thumb button, I can more easily differentiate the mechanic. My thumb must be different enough, or at least smarter, than the rest of my fingers.

Edited by Killkie, 07 September 2013 - 02:00 PM.


#2 Jesus Box

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Posted 05 September 2013 - 11:31 PM

This is PGI now. They gut builds for no logical reason except to stop people from using them. Like the other things they ruined; there was nothing wrong with a Gauss+PPC combo. This is one I liked using myself because 2 Gauss weighed too much while 2 PPC ran too hot. Gauss+ERPPC was a perfect mixture. I never PPC boated, but I did do this. Well now they nerfed the PPCs(again) and put in a BS delay on Gauss. You now have to tell the gun to load itself before firing, and if you don't fire <1.5s later, the gun then unloads itself. Why would it do that? Tell me what sense that makes. Even the most braindead of PGI's followers shouldn't be defending this one. THE GUN HAS TO BE TOLD TO LOAD ITSELF. IT THEN UNLOADS WHEN NOT FIRED. ?????????????? PPC now does 0 damage at minimum range. I wish I could PPC these Devs to the face and ask them how much it hurts; probably lot more than 0. PPC has now been nerfed to toilet. No idea why anyone would use it anymore. At all. ER Large is better at long range, and ML or LL is better for closer up.

So, naturally, everyone switched to another build. What you see now is AC/Ultra boats, which is exactly what I predicted was coming. Every game is full of Ballistic heavy builds or boats. They heat scale nerfed the energy builds, so now everyone will boat Ballistics. AC2s, 5s, and Ultras aren't yet on the BS heat list, so they are still safe to boat. But I'm sure those guns will be next. The crybabies will never be happy. They will just shift their cries to the next build, and then PGI will nerf it. Slowly, one by one, we're losing every diverse and viable(NOT OP) build this game once offered. It's becoming more and more of a 300m brawler pewpew and nothin else, which is what PGI seems to want out of this game. That came in its first wave after ECM patch(Every game 300m pewpew), and now it's coming back with all the super nerfs to ranged weapons. The Ballistics are the only good long range guns left. Once they are nerfed next, it's going to be all about 300m builds again. You see tons of Ballistic stackers now and it's because they are the only good long range guns left. After these get gutted too, what'll be left? Brawler builds, that's what. Everyone will be in the same build with any Mech and just run to 300m to pewpew until one dies. It's going to be 300m pewpew online. Tell me I'm wrong? Tell me the Ballistics won't be next on PGI's nerf list in the coming patches. Next patch you'll probably already see Ultra jam chance brought back up, because now everyone is using the gun again.

#3 Decep-Qi-Kons

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:25 AM

Have you stopped to consider, Jesus, that maybe the ppc/gauss build was overpowered?



View PostJesus Box, on 05 September 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

This is PGI now. They gut builds for no logical reason except to stop people from using them. Like the other things they ruined; there was nothing wrong with a Gauss+PPC combo. This is one I liked using myself because 2 Gauss weighed too much while 2 PPC ran too hot. Gauss+ERPPC was a perfect mixture. I never PPC boated, but I did do this. Well now they nerfed the PPCs(again) and put in a BS delay on Gauss. You now have to tell the gun to load itself before firing, and if you don't fire <1.5s later, the gun then unloads itself. Why would it do that? Tell me what sense that makes. Even the most braindead of PGI's followers shouldn't be defending this one. THE GUN HAS TO BE TOLD TO LOAD ITSELF. IT THEN UNLOADS WHEN NOT FIRED. ?????????????? PPC now does 0 damage at minimum range. I wish I could PPC these Devs to the face and ask them how much it hurts; probably lot more than 0. PPC has now been nerfed to toilet. No idea why anyone would use it anymore. At all. ER Large is better at long range, and ML or LL is better for closer up.

So, naturally, everyone switched to another build. What you see now is AC/Ultra boats, which is exactly what I predicted was coming. Every game is full of Ballistic heavy builds or boats. They heat scale nerfed the energy builds, so now everyone will boat Ballistics. AC2s, 5s, and Ultras aren't yet on the BS heat list, so they are still safe to boat. But I'm sure those guns will be next. The crybabies will never be happy. They will just shift their cries to the next build, and then PGI will nerf it. Slowly, one by one, we're losing every diverse and viable(NOT OP) build this game once offered. It's becoming more and more of a 300m brawler pewpew and nothin else, which is what PGI seems to want out of this game. That came in its first wave after ECM patch(Every game 300m pewpew), and now it's coming back with all the super nerfs to ranged weapons. The Ballistics are the only good long range guns left. Once they are nerfed next, it's going to be all about 300m builds again. You see tons of Ballistic stackers now and it's because they are the only good long range guns left. After these get gutted too, what'll be left? Brawler builds, that's what. Everyone will be in the same build with any Mech and just run to 300m to pewpew until one dies. It's going to be 300m pewpew online. Tell me I'm wrong? Tell me the Ballistics won't be next on PGI's nerf list in the coming patches. Next patch you'll probably already see Ultra jam chance brought back up, because now everyone is using the gun again.


#4 Tetatae Squawkins

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:30 AM

View PostJesus Box, on 05 September 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

Like the other things they ruined; there was nothing wrong with a Gauss+PPC combo.



Actually. Unlike most of the other builds they ruined for no reason. Guass+PPC was one of the legitimate balance issues in this game.

#5 IceLom

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:09 AM

View PostJesus Box, on 05 September 2013 - 11:31 PM, said:

THE GUN HAS TO BE TOLD TO LOAD ITSELF. IT THEN UNLOADS WHEN NOT FIRED. ??????????????


it builds up the required energy to fire the projectile, it it does not fire the projectile it dissipates that energy in order to not damage the weapon and mech.

it makes perfect sense from a fluff point of view and has nothing to do with loading and unloading the weapon. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coilgun there you go that is how they work pretty logical to think it may need to prep some capacitors in order to have the required energy for the magnets all at once.

(this post has nothing to do with the balance of the change, just pointing out how stupid the person sounds stating that it loads and unloads itself)

#6 Chrithu

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:32 AM

My CDA-3M says: "Sniping with ERPPCs is as fun as ever."

Especialy since everybody now thinks they are worthless weapons and does not pack them anymore so no one is able to snipe back.

Basically by making them sniping weapons exclusively and worthless on short range sniping became a fun thing to do again since it isn't the prominent meta anymore.

I am a PPC lover and I really welcome the changes (except for the changed projectile speed. How dare you force me to adapt my aiming???!!! CURSE YOU PGI).

About Gauss: Well I dunno. I don't mind the charge up but without proper documentation a lot of people will have a hard time figuring out how to use the Gauss. That's my biggest critique on it. The chareg up sound should be louder and maybe once charged up there should be "beep beep beep" getting fater signaling your time you have to release the shot. Anything audible should be there as there simply is too much going on on screen to also pay attention to some charge up bar even if it is right beside the crosshair.

Edit: Sorry I think I have misread the OP.

Edited by Jason Parker, 06 September 2013 - 09:38 AM.


#7 Decep-Qi-Kons

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:47 AM

Yeah, the sound is completely inaudible during a firefight, making it disorrienting when you are at close range. I guess this plays in to the gauss minimum range meta of tabletop, but if I were an innersphere engineer, fixing that problem would be a priority.

So, what I feel is, from a "Counterstrike" stand point, the gauss is the awp. that's great. Have it be the big, slow, painful to use but borderline overpowered gun. Can we have the Scout, please? A decent enough weapon that will still be useful to people not dedicated to the sniping role? I think the AC10, which is underpowered and rarely used, could become the new mid level sniper, if they just sped up the rounds. And, personally, the LB-10X is, in no way, a long ranged weapon and is only useful late in the game. A slug version of the ammo would turn it in to a capable light sniper weapon.

View PostJason Parker, on 06 September 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:


About Gauss: Well I dunno. I don't mind the charge up but without proper documentation a lot of people will have a hard time figuring out how to use the Gauss. That's my biggest critique on it. The chareg up sound should be louder and maybe once charged up there should be "beep beep beep" getting fater signaling your time you have to release the shot. Anything audible should be there as there simply is too much going on on screen to also pay attention to some charge up bar even if it is right beside the crosshair.

Edit: Sorry I think I have misread the OP.


#8 Decep-Qi-Kons

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 12:47 PM

I am still working with this game mechanic, trying to be very fair, but I am finding more and more flaws. I have just added two more:
  • UPDATED: Sound queue is so inaudible in a firefight, it's disorrienting trying to use the weapon
  • UPDATED: High-impulse damage and smoke/fire effects ruin Gauss mechanic and render chargetime useless


#9 Decep-Qi-Kons

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 02:26 PM

Updated again. I continue to test this weapon and find faults for it.
  • UPDATED: Any medium that uses this weapon has to give up mobility while using it, rendering it more a liability than an asset
  • UPDATED: Any Assault that uses this weapon has to contend with a host of other weapons using the default game mechanic, making a critical weapon a liability
  • UPDATED: Weapon strikes on the bounding boxes of the terrain or buildings are now a frustrating and grave consequence we trying to possition your mech to line up a shot.
  • UPDATED: I obviously need a high dollar gaming mouse if I want to use this weapon because there is no room for overshooting the target when trying to beat the discharge timer.
Updated: It seems to me this weapon is only effective if it is the only or primary weapon of a build, which feels counter to the table top game since a gauss rifle was something that could pretty much ALWAYS be fired. Therefore, I feel it is only the domain of the Jager or the Gauss Cat, since they are really the only two chassis than can boat two gausses. [/color][/color]

About the only thing I have learned to improve upon my view point is that by assigning the weapon to my thumb button, I can more easily differentiate the mechanic. My thumb must be different enough, or at least smarter, than the rest of my fingers.[/color]

Edited by Killkie, 06 September 2013 - 02:33 PM.


#10 sC4r

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:10 PM

i tried it and while i like the nerf to overall gauss/ppc combo im not sure this is the way to go for gauss

it works well if i dont have to worry about anything else but gauss... in that case i actually find this as buff i just kept spamming fire and let it discharge entire game and let it shoot only when i got some enemy around

on the other hand should i use other weapons i find it way too difficult to even fire it... you see here im fighting atlas... so fire gauss (click+ instant realease -> nothing happens) then im about to fire some large lasers... then maybe something else in general i forget i need to charge the gauss and it gets even worse if im under fire (its hard to see that weapon group turn green)

so if this is to stay i propose to give a feature that -> should the player only click (no holding) the gauss will charge up and instantly fire... idc make it toggle in options like arm lock/3PV

for ppcs i think it was a bit overboard now but i wont complain so long as it makes lots of snipers dissapear

Edit: bold text + pretty much killkie already said what i wanted to say

Edited by sC4r, 06 September 2013 - 03:13 PM.


#11 ShortBusBully

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:36 PM

I have never been a big a ppc fan. Not that I hate people using them, I just never liked using them. I prefer ballistics over energy. But PGI is making me convert to energy because imo the only good ballistic left is the AC/20 and UAC5. I loved the guass and have a dual guass jaeger. Yes I know its a glass mech but I learned to use it and average around 550 damage per game. I totally agree the sound is way to low and the discharge time is way to short. I don't complain much about this game but I agree PGI went just a little overboard on this one.

#12 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:43 PM

The only people who support the changes are the freakin loosers who can't beat it the way it was. Using this combo was done by Meta players and Snipers, so a small majority. The larger community cried about it and now your hard earned and spent dollars mean nothing to PGI as they are catering to the majority, the wider player base they can attract, the freakin arcade game loving console tardtastic ones who generally can't play anyway and cry till the devs make the game suit them. Break the game for the skilled players, make it better for the larger non-skilled crying group.

#13 ShortBusBully

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 03:56 PM

View PostWerewolf486, on 06 September 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

The only people who support the changes are the freakin loosers who can't beat it the way it was. Using this combo was done by Meta players and Snipers, so a small majority. The larger community cried about it and now your hard earned and spent dollars mean nothing to PGI as they are catering to the majority, the wider player base they can attract, the freakin arcade game loving console tardtastic ones who generally can't play anyway and cry till the devs make the game suit them. Break the game for the skilled players, make it better for the larger non-skilled crying group.


LOL I agree but disagree. It is not the majority. Like everything else in life its those that cry the loudest that get their way. Half the community never comes to the forums, I am guessing. But the half that does visit, 2/3 rds of them cry about everything so PGI listens to them. Every game I have ever played is this way and will always be this way. Some day (ok I know this is fantasy) a company will exist that its devs actually play the game consistently and LISTEN to everyone, just not the whiners. If they listened to everyone and made changes not based on majority but common sense, then that would be a great game.

#14 Wolfways

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 04:06 PM

View PostDirtyC, on 06 September 2013 - 03:36 PM, said:

I have never been a big a ppc fan. Not that I hate people using them, I just never liked using them. I prefer ballistics over energy. But PGI is making me convert to energy because imo the only good ballistic left is the AC/20 and UAC5. I loved the guass and have a dual guass jaeger. Yes I know its a glass mech but I learned to use it and average around 550 damage per game. I totally agree the sound is way to low and the discharge time is way to short. I don't complain much about this game but I agree PGI went just a little overboard on this one.

Ballistics have much higher dps than energy weapons.
I'm using 2xAC2's and 2xAC5's on my Jager and it rips mechs apart in seconds...or overheats :(

#15 Jesus Box

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 06:08 PM

View PostKillkie, on 06 September 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Have you stopped to consider, Jesus, that maybe the ppc/gauss build was overpowered?


It was not OP, lol, no more than any other sniper build. But I guess all sniper builds are OP, eh? I guess that's why they are "all" getting nerfed into toilet. Ah, it makes perfect sense now. My mistake. They should just remove long range weapons then. Why not skip these nerf steps and go straight to the end that they(and you) want?

View PostWerewolf486, on 06 September 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

The only people who support the changes are the freakin loosers who can't beat it the way it was. Using this combo was done by Meta players and Snipers, so a small majority. The larger community cried about it and now your hard earned and spent dollars mean nothing to PGI as they are catering to the majority, the wider player base they can attract, the freakin arcade game loving console tardtastic ones who generally can't play anyway and cry till the devs make the game suit them. Break the game for the skilled players, make it better for the larger non-skilled crying group.


That's it. That's hitting the nail right on the head. The game is a cash crop now. They don't care about balance. They care purely about catering it to make a buck. It's also why 3PV is being put in, a feature that doesn't belong at all in this game. The players that wanted a strategic competitive MW with tons of diverse guns/weapons to use are the ones getting the shaft. The good players(which are the minority, sadly) are getting the shaft as the game is being watered down change after change. Pretty soon it'll be like MW with safety floats in the pool; so no one can drown or has to L2P. Don't worry, PGI has your back. You don't have to learn how to play or actually get good at the game. PGI will give you little baby floats. They'll "fix" whatever build people is killing you with. It'll be alright. See the problems here?

View PostWolfways, on 06 September 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Ballistics have much higher dps than energy weapons.
I'm using 2xAC2's and 2xAC5's on my Jager and it rips mechs apart in seconds...or overheats :(


Ballistics are the way to go atm. They've not yet been nerfed down by PGI. They've become FOTM guns thanks to PGI's stupidity. So now you see them stacked up every game, AC 2s, 5s, Ultras. But I'm sure they'll get nerfed next. This is PGI now. They will create FOTM builds between each of these senseless nerfs. You'll never have a balanced game and people will now just switch between FOTM builds. This is what happens when you cater the game rather than balance it properly.

#16 Darkfieros

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 07:54 PM

View PostKillkie, on 06 September 2013 - 08:25 AM, said:

Have you stopped to consider, Jesus, that maybe the ppc/gauss build was overpowered?


How is it overpowered? A LRM boat with double lrm 20 can put that much damage in you. Is it a strong alpha yes, but it doesn't win games alone. If people were dumb enough to run out in the open they deserved the pummeling the lrms, the ppc, and the gauss gave them. For brawlers there is a price to be paid for closing in that much. Speed nerfs are laughable on energy based weapons and a minimum distance for damage as well. Explosive rounds don't need time to arm...they aren't missiles (lrm minimum distance). There is a reason there is an alpha strike in the game. Now little mechs have one less thing to fear rolling up on a mech that is double/almost triple their weight and that is a joke. There was nothing wrong with the ppc and gauss as they were. Ac2 builds could easily counter them by spotting them first, As well as spotter mechs for LRM destruction. Now there isn't much to fear from gauss nor ppcs unless the other team is bad enough to get baited and you don't get targeted at all.

#17 Devils Advocate

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 08:10 PM

As somebody who averages 500-700 damage every match with my dual Gauss jager, if you can't figure out how to use the new Gauss you should probably find an easier game to play. With 3 mastered Awesomes I can tell you the PPC wasn't overpowered without the Gauss getting involved but it was, perhaps, too popular. A fully decked out 8 Q is almost completely useless right now because of how terrible PPCs are at the present time but I guess if weakening PPCs increases brawling I'll live with it. And by live with it I mean I'll never use my 8Q again.

Before this change the Gauss rifle was an AC15 that generated no heat and had more range than the AC10. Now it's a sniper rifle. I'm ok with that.

#18 Smart Bomb

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:14 PM

View PostDevils Advocate, on 06 September 2013 - 08:10 PM, said:

With 3 mastered Awesomes I can tell you the PPC wasn't overpowered without the Gauss getting involved but it was, perhaps, too popular. A fully decked out 8 Q is almost completely useless right now because of how terrible PPCs are at the present time but I guess if weakening PPCs increases brawling I'll live with it. And by live with it I mean I'll never use my 8Q again.


Ya, these nerfs to the PPCs hurt the Awesome 8Q and 9M the most, also known as the chassis designed specifically to carry them. PGI seems to have such utter contempt for the Awesome as they've done nothing to make them viable with PPCs.

Edited by Smart Bomb, 06 September 2013 - 09:14 PM.


#19 Werewolf486 ScorpS

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 09:38 PM

What is the Alpha of a CTF-3D with a Gauss and dual ERPPC's? 35! and it's considered OP?

I have a CTF-1X that can Alpha at 45, is that OP? What about my 3 Victors that alpha at 50 with speed and JJ's? OP?

Why not break every damn weapon in the game and call it a patch!

#20 Wolfways

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Posted 06 September 2013 - 10:24 PM

View PostWerewolf486, on 06 September 2013 - 09:38 PM, said:

Why not break every damn weapon in the game and call it a patch!

Give them time...





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