2555 replies to this topic

[Myssi]

Heffay, on 24 September 2013 - 09:10 AM, said:

Ok, then what about the raw data itself?

Someone help me out. Is his argument a red herring or a straw man? "Ignore the data, discuss Excel charts."

I'm sure the data is correct. For users and page hits about /r/mwo.
Please explain how does that relate to the player base of MWO itself. Are these users all new also to the game? If so, how do you know that.
If not all of them are not new users to the game, what percentage is, if any? What percentage of /r/mwo users are already existing users of MWO? Is there a chance that some of the users are already users here but looking for a place where information about the game is more accessible and in one place instead of having to shuffle through different pod casts, 3rd party sites like NGNG and the mwomercs forums?
How is this data of yours relevant to the game? Please help me understand this data point better.

[Lonestar1771]

Viper69, on 24 September 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not that I think the game is doing well but...For everyone poo pooing Heffays graphs, produce a graph to show your point, at least he is providing some data, all anyone else is doing is saying his data is flawed, if it is flawed produce a counter argument with data pointing that out. Its not rocket science, if your going to argue a point argue it with some form of intelligence, dont just argue to argue.

Do I think Heffays graph is accurate, not really but I cant find anything better to go off of so really there is no point in arguing if I cannot produce a counter point.

So counter a graph with a graph? Why? His numbers are arbitrary at best and he knows it. We all do.

[Nekki Basara]

Viper69, on 24 September 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not that I think the game is doing well but...For everyone poo pooing Heffays graphs, produce a graph to show your point, at least he is providing some data, all anyone else is doing is saying his data is flawed, if it is flawed produce a counter argument with data pointing that out. Its not rocket science, if your going to argue a point argue it with some form of intelligence, dont just argue to argue.

Do I think Heffays graph is accurate, not really but I cant find anything better to go off of so really there is no point in arguing if I cannot produce a counter point.

His data is accurate, his presentation is lacking. Your reading seems to be behind the thread a bit though, so you might want to catch up.

[Tarzilman]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 09:13 AM, said:

Nope.

You DO NOT reuse the same graph to have two different scales, but even so, you have to IDENTIFY/SHOW which scale uses what.

It's not my fault that you can't even do a proper graph in Excel.

1. It's not my graph.

2. Forget the graph, look at the numbers. The numbers are growing and that may probably be, because the interest in MWO is growing...->

Quote

Hell, I've gone to reddit just to see the trolling.

<-...rather than ppl are just going to reddit to watch the others trolling.
That's kinda outrageous. Just my opinion.

Edited by Tarzilman, 24 September 2013 - 09:21 AM.

[Viper69]

Well if I am behind forgive me then.

[Heffay]

Viper69, on 24 September 2013 - 09:15 AM, said:

Not that I think the game is doing well but...For everyone poo pooing Heffays graphs, produce a graph to show your point, at least he is providing some data, all anyone else is doing is saying his data is flawed, if it is flawed produce a counter argument with data pointing that out. Its not rocket science, if your going to argue a point argue it with some form of intelligence, dont just argue to argue.

Do I think Heffays graph is accurate, not really but I cant find anything better to go off of so really there is no point in arguing if I cannot produce a counter point.

For the record, they are from reddit, not me. I think I attributed the source in my original post, but in the event there was some confusion, I apologize.

[Nekki Basara]

Tarzilman, on 24 September 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

1. It's not my graph.

2. Forget the graph, look at the numbers. The numbers are growing and that may probably be, because the interest in MWO is growing...->

<-...rather than ppl are just going to reddit to watch the others trolling.
That's kinda outrageous. Just my opinion.

As I pointed out earlier, the numbers have risen from 0.5% of the claimed MWO registered accounts to a mighty, TOTALLY RELEVANT I SWEAR 3%. It's possible that those unique views represent every single active player in MWO, but equally possible that they represent just 3% of them and a few journalists covering the media backlash but not actually playing. We'll never know.

[Tarzilman]

Lonestar1771, on 24 September 2013 - 09:14 AM, said:

I can make an arbitrary graph if you want me to, but metacritic seems to be a hot bed of bad reviews. The MWO forums, reddit, all the articles that have nothing good to say. That's my proof that the game is unsuccessful. If the game/devs didn't have their issues do you think all of those things would be they way they are today?

What I see at metacritic are on the one hand many biased reviews and bad votings from those disappointed haters from the forums, not the same nicknames no evidence, just an assumption, and on the other hand review from ppl that probably didn't spent so much time in the game to understand, how it works.
To your last question: If the game but especially the devs didn't have their issues, if the devs would have been honest to the community and told them about the problems regarding delays and other stuff, then I'm sure, there would be a significantly higher rating than 5.3 at metacritic.

Edited by Tarzilman, 24 September 2013 - 09:40 AM.

[Deathlike]

Tarzilman, on 24 September 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

2. Forget the graph, look at the numbers. The numbers are growing and that may probably be, because the interest in MWO is growing...->

Having two different scales for the same axis is confusing. At least bother to color the #s of the scale sides they are meant to represent... it looks rather lazy to me, trying to combine two graphs that represent completely different things.

Numbers are irrelevant if the data cannot be interpreted.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 09:35 AM.

[Tarzilman]

Nekki Basara, on 24 September 2013 - 09:25 AM, said:

(...) It's possible that those unique views represent every single active player in MWO, but equally possible that they represent just 3% of them and a few journalists covering the media backlash but not actually playing. We'll never know.

Agree.

Quote

As I pointed out earlier, the numbers have risen from 0.5% of the claimed MWO registered accounts to a mighty, TOTALLY RELEVANT I SWEAR 3%. (...)

Finally an increase of at least 500%. Depends on the pov.

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 09:33 AM, said:

Having two different scales for the same axis is confusing. At least bother to color the #s of the scale sides they are meant to represent... it looks rather lazy to me, trying to combine two graphs that represent completely different things.

For gods sake, PLEASE make your own great looking super duper extraordinary shiny graph with many colours and glitter and stuff!




Edit: Pardon. 500%

Edited by Tarzilman, 24 September 2013 - 09:42 AM.

[Wales Grey]

Eh, why are people excited about user rates on known den of "ephebephiles", MRA, and racism, le reddit?

[Deathlike]

Tarzilman, on 24 September 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

For gods sake, PLEASE make your own great looking super duper extraordinary shiny graph with many colours and glitter and stuff!

Nope.

There's nothing like trying to prove something that I'm not interested in doing.

If you want to show a point, at least do it right, instead of defending the poor design. Oh wait, I've just described MWO.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 09:43 AM.

[Tarzilman]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Nope.

There's nothing like trying to prove something that I'm not interested in doing.

If you want to show a point, at least do it right, instead of defending the poor design. Oh wait, I've just described MWO.

Damn. You must be a very serious and sorrowful man.

*gives him a hug*

[Heffay]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 09:43 AM, said:

Nope.

There's nothing like trying to prove something that I'm not interested in doing.

If you want to show a point, at least do it right, instead of defending the poor design. Oh wait, I've just described MWO.

Nice strawman. Stay away from matches.

I'll be sure to let the guys at reddit who made that know you disapprove of their graph making skills.

Edited by Heffay, 24 September 2013 - 09:50 AM.

[Deathlike]

Heffay, on 24 September 2013 - 09:49 AM, said:

Nice strawman. Stay away from matches.

It's not a strawman. I bet the goons could have awesome charts and graphs that do the same thing.

If you don't want to fix your graph, that's fine with me. Let the community decide if they can read the graph that you have posted.

Quote

http://en.wikipedia....isleading_graph

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 09:56 AM.

[Wales Grey]

Deathlike, on 24 September 2013 - 09:51 AM, said:

It's not a strawman. I bet the goons could have awesome charts and graphs that do the same thing.

If you don't want to fix your graph, that's fine with me. Let the community decide if they can read the graph that you have posted.

I'm honestly unsure which scale is for which bar. Also, not providing datapoints? for shame.

[Heffay]

Wales Grey, on 24 September 2013 - 09:55 AM, said:

I'm honestly unsure which scale is for which bar. Also, not providing datapoints? for shame.

The data was provided, a couple of posts earlier.

[Nekki Basara]

Here, I made you a better one:



ETA: I actually messed up there, but MSPaint is unfun to use even with this little effort.

Edited by Nekki Basara, 24 September 2013 - 10:05 AM.

[Myssi]

Heffay, on 24 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

The data was provided, a couple of posts earlier.

Since you didn't answer me earlier, assuming due to missing the post because the constant updates on the thread, I'm quoting myself and hoping to get an answer that helps me understand the relevance of this data in the graphs. I'm sure the data is relevant after all, or you wouldn't have brought it up.

Myssi, on 24 September 2013 - 09:18 AM, said:

I'm sure the data is correct. For users and page hits about /r/mwo.
Please explain how does that relate to the player base of MWO itself. Are these users all new also to the game? If so, how do you know that.
If not all of them are not new users to the game, what percentage is, if any? What percentage of /r/mwo users are already existing users of MWO? Is there a chance that some of the users are already users here but looking for a place where information about the game is more accessible and in one place instead of having to shuffle through different pod casts, 3rd party sites like NGNG and the mwomercs forums?
How is this data of yours relevant to the game? Please help me understand this data point better.

[Wales Grey]

Heffay, on 24 September 2013 - 09:57 AM, said:

The data was provided, a couple of posts earlier.

Thanks for telling me that thing I knew, and implying that I'm some kind of moron for not immediately grasping which unlabeled Y-Scale belonged to which dataset.

I'm sorry I'm so dumb and stupid, Surat.

Edited by Wales Grey, 24 September 2013 - 10:09 AM.