Jump to content

The Player Base And The Open Dissatisfaction With Pgi


75 replies to this topic

Poll: The playerbase and PGI (115 member(s) have cast votes)

Are you willing to give PGI a clean slate and forgive their past grievances for the sake of the game's success?

  1. Yes, I feel my issues with PGI are inconsequential, because I want MWO to suceed (48 votes [41.03%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 41.03%

  2. No, they have lied to us too many times and do not listen to the founders (8 votes [6.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.84%

  3. No, I disagree with the direction they are taking MWO (8 votes [6.84%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 6.84%

  4. Both 2 and 3 (38 votes [32.48%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 32.48%

  5. Other (discuss in a reply) (15 votes [12.82%] - View)

    Percentage of vote: 12.82%

Vote Guests cannot vote

#41 Lupus Aurelius

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 509 posts
  • LocationHarlech, Outreach

Posted 18 September 2013 - 04:59 AM

...and did anyone even notice this being put up yesterday?

http://mwomercs.com/...arrior-justice/

These clauses are particularly interesting:

III. Kerensky's Ordinance
The only insults that are permitted for MechWarriors to refer to one another are 'Dezgra' & 'Surat'.

VII. Moderator's Bar
Rules Lawyering or Backseat Moderation is not permitted: These rules are not exhaustive.
As a continuing development and an online game, we will encounter new and unlisted forms of abuse.
Regardless of wording or lack thereof: the spirit of the law is: Do not abuse the game, services, staff, or players.
The forum and game administration reserves the right to remove access for any MechWarrior at any time. Staff and moderators are not required to reply to any rude, vulgar, abrasive or aggressive messages.

What you say can and will be used against you.

So no, the lack of credibility, the outright censorship of dissent, so called balancing to appease the least common denominator...no, I do not forgive. God(s) forgive, I will continue to hold PGI accountable until they change their behavior and show good faith, credibility, and some level of integrity.

Do as you say, say as you do...

Edited by Lupus Aurelius, 18 September 2013 - 05:05 AM.


#42 Devils Advocate

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 636 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

I just wonder what merits a 'success' when it comes to this game being successful. The developers have been getting paid to implement (and also to delay) features for the last year and being employed is ultimately successful to them. Success to the developers is people spending money on new mechs and camos. Not trying to be disrespectful but it's a job to those guys.

I'm split here. I want to believe that if all the people who care enough to be mad just go away PGI will, all of a sudden, out of totally nowhere, start releasing a huge number of features that have been promised to make the game into what they advertised. I'd love to believe that in a year's time we'll have full blown community warfare with factions and faction specific mechs and prototype weapons and all the stuff Eckman said he'd love to see put into the gamee during his interview, but I kind of feel like just leaving them alone isn't going to inspire that. Maybe if the community stays really publicly critical the devs will actually consider features they've advertised up to this point just to pull cash out of the harder core members of the community. Again, it's a business, so it *might?* be better for business if people stay noisy.

Edited by Devils Advocate, 18 September 2013 - 05:03 AM.


#43 Killhunger

    Member

  • PipPip
  • Knight Errant
  • 46 posts
  • LocationColorado

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:00 AM

View PostThe Cheese, on 18 September 2013 - 04:55 AM, said:


Not at all. I'm reasonably happy with the game that I've played for the money I've spent.

I'm not playing much anymore because I feel like I've done all there is to do. It's all stick, no carrot nowadays.

There's simply too many other great games out there to try out to be spending my time doing the same thing over and over again without any greater objective.


That is exactly my issue with the game.

#44 Enigmos

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Legendary Founder
  • Legendary Founder
  • 1,290 posts
  • LocationPhiladelphia

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:02 AM

View PostKillhunger, on 18 September 2013 - 04:50 AM, said:


I wasn't really including myself in the group your are referring to based on my earlier statement. But I did say All. (I will edit that.)

As stated here:

"I literally played the **** out of this game. I don't feel I deserve a refund for failed promises. (I can see how some feel that way however) When I think about the money spent exacty $120 and no more after the founders. I got a shitload of fun out of this game."

I was mostly addressing the issues that some have.

My main issue is there isn't enough for me to play. Content and game modes etc. I thought my post was constructive and on topic.

- Kill


I understand that desire for more of what makes MechWarrior a real story, which I hope will arrive with CW. However I believe the biggest problem PGI/Pirahna has is their coddling all the players who feel a need to blame their tools and teammates for the poor quality of their matches. The developer has spent too much time trying to respond to the people complaining only to discover that as soon as they try and implement a solution they are bashed for it and the complaints all begin to focus on a different tool (LRM, ECM, PPC, UAC5, etc.) as their scapegoat. Had the devs paid attention to their numbers instead of trying to appease all the dezgra (who may be Hawken players trying to recruit new cannon fodder to their game) we would likely already have CW, new maps, and etc..

Edited by OriginalTibs, 18 September 2013 - 05:29 AM.


#45 Shadey99

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • The Tip of the Spear
  • 1,241 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:04 AM

View PostDeathsani, on 18 September 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

I am not a founder. I am just some open beta player who misses the franchise and wants the game to succeed and I have a question for those folk that answered to the effect of stating that they no longer trust the company. Why are you still here? Life is short and there are an infinite number of things you could be doing. Why persist with constant useless criticism and obnoxious insults behind the shield of the mighty internet?


Well I'll give this comment a brief answer: Because we are BT fans and want the game to not be rubbish so even if this game dies someone may take up the challenge again in the future. I would however prefer they follow through on their promises and deliver a solid game.

#46 Kaldor

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,239 posts
  • LocationWisconsin

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:07 AM

It is very unlikely I will ever give PGI another dime. I own enough mech bays, 40 at last count, and have enough mechs, 38 at last count, that I should never have to spend another dollar.

I voted option 3.

I could care less about the "f_cking golds" (founders) and how they b_tch about what they want. I am one of those "golds" and I can understand concessions from canon to get the game working correctly from a balance perspective. My issue is that they have lied to us. (option 2) The things that they told us 2 years ago would never be in game, well they did it anyway. I also disagree with the direction they are taking the game (option 3) as they tailor the game for the CoD kiddies that are 14 years old, with about a 14 minute attention span.

I really wish them no ill will, but I think they put themselves "on an island" and ignored the core player base (founders and long time Mechwarrior/Battletech fans) that will make the game sustainable.

#47 DegeneratePervert

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 790 posts
  • LocationKansas

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:20 AM

Many people, especially founders, forget that this game is not theirs. It is PGI's toy, and PGI will do whatever they please with it. They forget that they agreed to the EULA, which stated that the game could possibly change completely from it's starting point, to better suit the masses.

The overwhelming negativity the forums experienced was caused by people who forget that they aren't investors, and PGI owes them nothing. That isn't to say certain things were not utterly FUBAR (balance), but the hatred spewed at the devs was unwarranted.

#48 xRatas

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Bad Company
  • Bad Company
  • 514 posts
  • LocationFinland

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:24 AM

While I can forgive the past, I hold no hope for the future.

#49 Andrew Porter

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 41 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:34 AM

voted 'other' so thought I would explain my position.

Firstly, to put my opinions in perspective; I have not put much money into this game (just for mechbays), and I have had a lot of fun out of it. As a F2P I think it is ok, and as I cant think of any great F2P games, ok is pretty good. The core mechanic is great, matches are often great fun and without too many annoying bugs (maybe I have been lucky on that score, only had 3 crashes ever, broken minimap a dozen times, nothing major). It isn't P2W, but the pricing structure for things discourages me from spending money, tbh. Not enough microtransactions, things like paints, decals etc. should be a things I can casually spend small amounts on and prices have consistently been too high in my opinion. That isn't a big deal for me though. All my mechs are green, and all bought with CBills, and I can live with that.

However, and I not trying to be unkind... PGI are not competent. They have shown time and again that they are not competent, and I have absolutely no reason to believe they will ever deliver on the larger metagame. Whatever we get, if we get anything, will be underwhelming. They will continue to display incompetent community management, communication, quality control, you name it. They literally do not know any better, and are not capable of improvement. They have no track record of success, and no reputation to tarnish. People will never sadly shake their heads at what became of the devs that did that fishing game.

So, it isn't about me forgiving them, or hating them, or feeling betrayed... they are just guys who have made a fun MOBA but bitten off more than they can chew outside of that core. If you think of the core gameplay as steak, and the surrounding meta as mash, then what we have is a fine steak with no mash, but the mash is always coming soon. I love a fine steak, but in the end you need the mash. Right now I am constipated from steak-only dinners, so I am off to find some mash, because it just isn't appearing here. I am sure I will pop in for a mouthful of steak every now and again, but I am starting to miss fish, and sausages, and pie, and all the other things I used to eat before I got hooked on steak. I hear there is a new joint called Star Citizen, that intend to do all of those things, so I am hoping they can deliver the balanced meal I am missing here. I will pay for it only once I have seen it is real though.

I hope that makes sense. Injured neck yesterday so taking pretty strong painkillers today, that might explain my slightly bizarre analogy.

Edited by Andrew Porter, 18 September 2013 - 05:46 AM.


#50 Felbombling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,980 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:38 AM

View PostDeathsani, on 18 September 2013 - 03:25 AM, said:

I am not a founder. I am just some open beta player who misses the franchise and wants the game to succeed and I have a question for those folk that answered to the effect of stating that they no longer trust the company. Why are you still here? Life is short and there are an infinite number of things you could be doing. Why persist with constant useless criticism and obnoxious insults behind the shield of the mighty internet?


It just dawned on me, but being a fan of Battletech and MechWarrior, and by extension MechWarrior: Online, is sort of the same relationship a fan of the Toronto Maple Leafs had with the franchise during the Harold Ballard ownership reign. Ballard knew that Maple Leaf Gardens was a guaranteed sellout every single night. People lucky enough to have season ticket subscriptions were handing their tickets down to family and friends in their wills. Knowing this, he ran the team on the cheap. Players started getting good and wanted more money? Trade them for cheaper players. What were people in a hockey crazed city and nation going to do... stop attending the games because the team stunk? And stunk they did... year after year they were the laughing stock of the NHL, yet the people suffered through. When people ask true fans of MechWarrior why they are still here if they are unhappy with the direction of the game, I guess you could point to that analogy and say, "Ok... I get it."

#51 Joseph Mallan

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 35,216 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationMallanhold, Furillo

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:46 AM

View PostLupus Aurelius, on 18 September 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

...and did anyone even notice this being put up yesterday?

http://mwomercs.com/...arrior-justice/

These clauses are particularly interesting:

III. Kerensky's Ordinance
The only insults that are permitted for MechWarriors to refer to one another are 'Dezgra' & 'Surat'.

VII. Moderator's Bar
Rules Lawyering or Backseat Moderation is not permitted: These rules are not exhaustive.
As a continuing development and an online game, we will encounter new and unlisted forms of abuse.
Regardless of wording or lack thereof: the spirit of the law is: Do not abuse the game, services, staff, or players.
The forum and game administration reserves the right to remove access for any MechWarrior at any time. Staff and moderators are not required to reply to any rude, vulgar, abrasive or aggressive messages.

What you say can and will be used against you.

So no, the lack of credibility, the outright censorship of dissent, so called balancing to appease the least common denominator...no, I do not forgive. God(s) forgive, I will continue to hold PGI accountable until they change their behavior and show good faith, credibility, and some level of integrity.

Do as you say, say as you do...
III So Only Clanners can use insults. And lame ones at that. Lyran soldiers have been calling Combine soldiers Snakes since before The Exodus. Expand the allowable insults to encompass all the In Universe insults for Unity's Sake!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 18 September 2013 - 05:47 AM.


#52 Felbombling

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,980 posts
  • LocationVancouver, BC

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:46 AM

As to the poll, PGI have made a ton of mistakes with the game and the core game mechanics they chose. I don't think Paul has a hope in hell of balancing this game anytime in the near future so long as there is no heat penalty system and weapon convergence stays as is. The whole collection of core mechanics, right down to ammunition per ton, promotes heavy weapon boating for pin-point accurate high alpha builds. While they are making some headway with the ghost heat penalty system and the Gauss desync, the actual problems still exist, ready to be exploited by other front loaded damage combinations. I think I'll come back when collisions are back in the game, but I know full well that 30 point alpha strikes will probably always be part of the game. I will say that I do feel a little bit for the founders. They ordered a steak, yet the waiter brought them a salad and told them they'd love it.

Edited by StaggerCheck, 18 September 2013 - 05:50 AM.


#53 Zyllos

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 2,818 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:47 AM

I am not concerned or hurt from the lack of CW, UI2.0, DX11, ect. I know these things will come in due time.

My problems is I can not get past the lack of understanding that the current Armor System with Player Aim is a blantently broken mechanic. The Armor System is 100% based around the fact that weapon's fire was random but it placed into MWO against a system where weapons can be easily aimed at a point and ALL equiped weapons fire onto that single point.

It has broken any and all flavor, canon, and mechanical balance of the game. And with PGI not acknowledging that this is a problem has quite put me off in wanting to continue playing, regardless of the unique stuff to be implemented in the near future.

This problem has also lead to unpopular mechanics to alleviate the issue, like ghost heat. Almost every game, the majority of the damage has only hit the Center Torso or Left/Right Torso dependent on the mech. Rarely do you see damage dealt to Arms and only sometimes against Legs..

#54 MaddMaxx

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Survivor
  • Survivor
  • 5,911 posts
  • LocationNova Scotia, Canada

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:56 AM

View PostLupus Aurelius, on 18 September 2013 - 04:59 AM, said:

...and did anyone even notice this being put up yesterday?

snip

Do as you say, say as you do...


Quote

I will continue to hold PGI accountable until they change their behavior and show good faith, credibility, and some level of integrity.




This BS is absolutely incredulous coming from these Forums. The Forums that never has had any Good Faith, zero credibility and absolutely SFA integrity.

P.S. Please stop making BS Polls. It is getting tiresome. Really.

#55 Joseph Mallan

    ForumWarrior

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • FP Veteran - Beta 1
  • 35,216 posts
  • Google+: Link
  • Facebook: Link
  • LocationMallanhold, Furillo

Posted 18 September 2013 - 05:59 AM

View PostMaddMaxx, on 18 September 2013 - 05:56 AM, said:




This BS is absolutely incredulous coming from these Forums. The Forums that never has had any Good Faith, zero credibility and absolutely SFA integrity.

P.S. Please stop making BS Polls. It is getting tiresome. Really.

That is a faulty generalization. I know I have integrity, and many of the folks I associate with do to.

#56 Wolfways

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Mercenary
  • 6,499 posts
  • LocationIn a shutdown overheated mech near you.

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:10 AM

I chose "both 2 and 3" and i'll explain why.

2) PGI may not have lied but they have broken promises (There will be no 3pv, there will be 3pv but seperate queues...). I understand that a company wants to make money but if you don't have faith in your own vision of the game you're making why make it? Oh yeah, because money beats integrity.
As for not listening to the founders, well i can't fault PGI for that. Buying early access and ingame items does not entitle you to have more input that other players. But PGI have shown that they don't listen to any of the players. They add somehing to the game in a way they think is right, and only after months of players complaining will they slightly change it, just enough to appease the majority of players who will accept a slight change instead of the needed change.
Also, saying "we need to get better at communication" doesn't fix the fact that you have already insulted players and shown you have no respect for them.

3) I don't like they way they seem to be moving further away from the Battletech game they claim to love. For example, why was there a need to give ECM abilities that it doesn't have in BT? Why is the AC2, which in BT does the same damage as an MG but has a very long range, now one of the highest dps weapons in the game?
I understand some things need to change for the sake of balance, like giving missiles more damage as they can't be aimed, but why put the weapon in the game, without increasing the range of the weapon like has been done with other weapons, then introduce other little things to "fix it" (i.e. appease players who don't use the weapon and complain about it instead of learning to counter it) with multiple small nerfs that never actually fix the problem (i.e. indirect fire).
Look at the heat system. Players have been saying all along that the heat system is bad, yet PGI refuse to listen to anyone and blindly follow their belief that "heat management must be an important part of MWO" while removing the heat system that was part of BT and giving players the mechlab which gives players the ability to create mechs with decreased heat generation. Do they not wonder why they have to keep nerfing popular weapons with "extra heat fixes"?
I just feel that PGI are using the BT IP to increase sales on a game that would have had much less support if they had created their own IP.

Do i want MWO to succeed? Of course i do. I still play and find what limited content there is to be fun...for now.
Do i care if PGI makes money? No. I won't spend any more money on the game until it is significantly improved and PGI show they have some idea of what they are doing.

And those who are telling people to grow up and make a better game if they think they can. I think you need to grow up if you think that there aren't MWO players, past and present, who couldn't make a better game. It isn't lack of ability that stops them, but rather time, money, and the law.
Imo MW:LL was one of those "better games" that unfortunately stopped development because of MWO, whether a C&D was issued or not. It may not have been the best game ever but at least that team had a grand vision and were sticking to it.

In the end though i only blame myself for believing that what PGI promised sounded like EVEOnline with mechs (so much that i thought the tiny maps we had in closed beta were placeholders just for testing things until the big release) instead of WoT with mechs. I guess i'm just naive -_-

#57 Jestun

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,270 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:26 AM

Forgive them as they continue to do more of the same? No.

Give them a chance if they swallow their pride, reverse decisions like no 1PV queue and start engaging with the community? Quite possibly.

Comprimise is required from both sides if the wounds are to heal.

#58 Fut

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • Moderate Giver
  • 1,969 posts
  • LocationToronto, ON

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:31 AM

I voted "Other" because I didn't like the other options.

The issues that PGI have created with the players are not inconsequential, however I want this game to succeed so badly that I'm willing to turn the other cheek.

I just don't want to vote for an option that down-plays how brutally dishonest and sneaky the Devs have been over the course of Beta.


View PostFunkadelic Mayhem, on 18 September 2013 - 03:12 AM, said:

If you want a more honest poll dont make it public. I chose the option "I dont vote in public polls"


So you have an opinion, but you don't want people to know it's your opinion?

Time to grow a pair, buddy.

Edited by Fut, 18 September 2013 - 06:33 AM.


#59 DeadOnAim

    Member

  • PipPip
  • 34 posts

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:37 AM

View PostFut, on 18 September 2013 - 06:31 AM, said:

I voted "Other" because I didn't like the other options.

The issues that PGI have created with the players are not inconsequential, however I want this game to succeed so badly that I'm willing to turn the other cheek.

I just don't want to vote for an option that down-plays how brutally dishonest and sneaky the Devs have been over the course of Beta.




So you have an opinion, but you don't want people to know it's your opinion?

Time to grow a pair, buddy.


What else would you expect from a thinly-veiled racist? They are cowards after all...

#60 Alois Hammer

    Member

  • PipPipPipPipPipPipPipPip
  • 1,296 posts
  • LocationHooterville

Posted 18 September 2013 - 06:44 AM

View PostPalmaRoma, on 18 September 2013 - 02:51 AM, said:

I personally feel they at least deserve one more chance before the playerbase deems it necessary to openly rebel against this. What say you forum?


I got nothing against second chances. Even third. But when "one more chance" translates to something on the order of a 12th chance, we're well beyond any reasonable expectation of change. There comes a point where the only rational statement on the entire situation is the spiel about the definition of insanity being doing the same thing (trusting PGI's word, for instance) over and over while expecting different results.

PGI has repeatedly made clear what kind of results we can expect from them every time.



2 user(s) are reading this topic

0 members, 2 guests, 0 anonymous users