183 replies to this topic

[Tincan Nightmare]

John Buford, on 20 September 2013 - 01:43 PM, said:

Actualy not even close. Lights take much more than 10m or even the 20m you say later on to turn around. Range doesn't look quite right because we are in giant robots so what you percive as 10-20m is probly close to 100m. When a light does doe that turn on a dime they have either jump turned or kill the throttle to turn tighter.

Well I don't know about the actual radius of the turn in meters, but the main problem is the fact that lights can circle strafe around a mech at full speed. This makes the best weapon to use against lights up close lasers, since you can try and 'sweep' them, but they are also handicapped by being DOT weapons so that you lose damage scattered across the target. If you have streaks they are good, but you cannot control where the missiles hit. Ballistics can hurt a light, but are much harder to hit with. Meanwhile, that light can keep popping shots into the same location on your mech far more easily (at least if your a slower target, doesn't really apply to another light). A light versus any other weight class in a 1v1 scenario inevitable leads to the light presenting its opponent with just a few snapshots to get damage in, while firing nearly as fast as its weapons can cycle (barring overheating). So speed is only really OP for lights when they can get in close, especially as they come up to the waistline of most heavies and assaults making it even that much harder to hit. I would not mind a real world application of physics, in which the faster you go the larger your turn radius. Light mechs should be engaging in hit and run tactics, not circling around in the open like a vulture because the other mech can't twist or turn fast enough to shoot back.

[Mystere]

Translation: "I can't shoot light mechs. Please nerf them down to my level."

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Tincan Nightmare, on 20 September 2013 - 07:15 PM, said:

Well I don't know about the actual radius of the turn in meters, but the main problem is the fact that lights can circle strafe around a mech at full speed. This makes the best weapon to use against lights up close lasers, since you can try and 'sweep' them, but they are also handicapped by being DOT weapons so that you lose damage scattered across the target. If you have streaks they are good, but you cannot control where the missiles hit. Ballistics can hurt a light, but are much harder to hit with. Meanwhile, that light can keep popping shots into the same location on your mech far more easily (at least if your a slower target, doesn't really apply to another light). A light versus any other weight class in a 1v1 scenario inevitable leads to the light presenting its opponent with just a few snapshots to get damage in, while firing nearly as fast as its weapons can cycle (barring overheating). So speed is only really OP for lights when they can get in close, especially as they come up to the waistline of most heavies and assaults making it even that much harder to hit. I would not mind a real world application of physics, in which the faster you go the larger your turn radius. Light mechs should be engaging in hit and run tactics, not circling around in the open like a vulture because the other mech can't twist or turn fast enough to shoot back.

First of all, circle strafing lights are dead meat. Period. Yesterday with Jenner F I fought against a Cataphract 2X who knew what he was doing. Took about 3 minutes to take down the mech. Reasons being, if I would've gone up close, he would've killed me in 10 seconds. He protected his rear armor very efficiently, so I had to take his front and that takes alot of time. He was heavily armed, I had to evade all the time. Only way I could do this was use terrain at >200 meters from him. I'm no pro with jenners so might have taken more than it had to. But point being - circle strafe = death, caution = win.

And you're absolutely right. Light mechs should be engaging hit and run. Circle strafing lights are exploiting bad aim or spider shield.

[Wolfways]

Aphoticus, on 20 September 2013 - 05:24 AM, said:

I do not agree with some of this; I have over 900 games in a Lyr Muromet with a 200 std engine; with efficiencies, that is 50kph, and can you imagine the torso twist?!?

I can bear down on a light, even when they engage me in the open all by my little lonesome.

It is about anticipating their movement characteristics, maintaining fire discipline, and not getting caught up in the circle race (you have to twist, turn the other direction, and mix it up).

Yes, it is difficult, and when spectating others, it looks to me to be their mouse sensativity is too high causing them to eratically try to aim.

Also, I notices that people never lead their shots, it always looks like they are on the trailing end of the light when firing, and at best, especially with lasers, they merely get touches by the weapons.

and Spider hit boxes are not the problem, they are just small slivers in comparison to everything else (aim small).

Net code is prevalent for ALL mechs, it affects everything on the battle field. The only reason that it appears worse with the spider is because of the size of the stupid thing.

I am not sure what the piloting issue is, that most people are not observing the interaction between the lights and their aiming and utilizing proper alignment, before firing.

When you're spectating, what you see on your screen isn't what they see on their screen. Sometimes not even remotely the same.


On topic. I think they need to slow everything down, including torso twist. Just the speed, not necessarily the numbers (I dont even know if mechs move at the right speed, scale-wise).
Battletech is supposed to be about huge lumbering war machines, not hovercraft. Avoiding damage should be a skill (for all weight class players), not due to how badly the server handles fast moving objects.

I'd also just point out here that in closed beta MWO was a slower paced game because XLengines cost a fortune to fix. Now, with R&R gone everyone just slaps in a big engine.

Edited by Wolfways, 20 September 2013 - 08:22 PM.

[Airu]

150 is fast? coming from tribes ascend - 150 is super slow. I remeber snipers nailing you across the map with flag when you go 360 kph in that game.
Anyway, waiting for MASC + Firemoth (if it ever will be) to collect noobs tears
Now hit registration is a completely different issue, which I, a light pilot, would be glad to have resolved. Since killing other lights would be that much easier.

Edited by Airu, 20 September 2013 - 08:48 PM.

[Throe]

IV Amen, on 20 September 2013 - 07:38 PM, said:

in which the faster you go the larger your turn radius.

This is true in MechWarrior Online. Any 'Mech can make a much tighter turn at a slower speed, as their steering systems are not based on forward movement. Case in point, any 'Mech can turn at zero net forward speed.

I think you're talking about turning *speed*. And that, I believe, does not change based on forward movement speed, which is probably what you're complaining about.

[PEEFsmash]

Find me ONE SINGLE top-level assault/heavy player who thinks that lights are truly overpowered.

Hint: You won't find one, because top-level assault/heavy players can aim, and make short work of lights. People who complain about lights are venting their own frustration at THEIR OWN poor aim and positioning, and declaring themselves as "no better than average" players.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 20 September 2013 - 11:22 PM.

[MustrumRidcully]

Kyone Akashi, on 20 September 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

It's not a "one-hit" if it comes from more than two weapons, is it? I could just as well claim a Jenner dies to "one-hits" as soon as somebody with a triple Gauss shows up.

No, that's one hit. You aimed once, you shot once, the damage was dealt, target is dead.

The key to "one-hit" is - if the enemy has a fair chance to react (instead of being able to have a prophetic vision of the bad things waiting for him around a corner), it's not one-hit.

[Drehl]

ultra bad assault pilots need to be balanced!


there is no issue with the speed of lightmechs.
the only problem I can see is hitdetection on spiders...

[Baba Yogi]

Its not just about spider, ive seen ravens absorb hits like an atlas. Something need to be done about this. Though i wonder why would you play a light if these issues are fixed. They really have nothing else to do in game than fight. Caps chasing is really slow and boring makes you combat ineffective, and everyone can scout since 3pv

[Zozob]

I don't find hitting lights to be much of a problem in my heavies and assaults but I have a good ping generally (50ish). Occasional hit detection problems aside, I don't think lights are OP by any means (I pilot them as well).

[Autobot9000]

I agree to many points in this thread.

1) Spider hitbox isn't working. Maybe it's not the hitbox itself, but maybe the thresholds of size/netcode meet here, because this mech and its hitboxes are particularly small? A developer needs to assesss this, not a player, but this is definitly a problem. Ravens don't seem to have this problem. Jenners seem to have it to some extent.

2) Light mechs shouldn't perform equivalently in 1v1 combat to assaults, heavies and mediums (they currently do, which seems to be a design goal for PGI). There should be rewarding tasks for light mechs to do in the game other than duelling mechs. Light mechs duelling siginifcantly heavier mechs is cheesy. Once you get this sorted out you can also address the unrealistic movement of lights, which is again cheesy. It's not the sheer speed, it's the non-physical turning for the most part, that looks like Mickey Mouse. The whole idea of equivalence is broken and a mere substitute to keep this game a simple Unreal-Tournament style shooter.

Edited by Autobot9000, 21 September 2013 - 03:10 AM.

[Wolfways]

PEEFsmash, on 20 September 2013 - 11:21 PM, said:

Find me ONE SINGLE top-level assault/heavy player who thinks that lights are truly overpowered.

Hint: You won't find one, because top-level assault/heavy players can aim, and make short work of lights. People who complain about lights are venting their own frustration at THEIR OWN poor aim and positioning, and declaring themselves as "no better than average" players.

I doubt any player who calls himself a "top-level" player would admit it, and if you bother to read you'll see that in the loads of threads about lights the majority of them have nothing to do with aim. It is about lights absorbing a ridiculous amount of damage.

[Wispsy]

So you cannot manage to hit light mechs with SSRMs?

k...

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

If lights were nurfed in speed, armor, turn rate, firepower or in any other way they would be useless. If you listened to the NGNG "Russ Bullock Part 1 and 2" You would hear them say the truth. The truth is, unlike any other mech game in this game all mechs including the lights are viable and useful in the game.

Learn to aim, lead, not lead and ranges and weapon speeds. In other words learn to play. Good pilots take me out all the time and I'm a darn good light pilot.

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 21 September 2013 - 04:19 AM.

[Snowcrow]

Lighter mechs(flea) need to go faster than 150. The devs will allow this when hit registration improves.

Edited by Snowcrow, 21 September 2013 - 04:16 AM.

[Kunae]

Snowcrow, on 21 September 2013 - 04:16 AM, said:

Lighter mechs(flea) need to go faster than 150. The devs will allow this when hit registration improves.

... so never, you're saying.

[Mehlan]

Quote

I doubt any player who calls himself a "top-level" player would admit it, and if you bother to read you'll see that in the loads of threads about lights the majority of them have nothing to do with aim. It is about lights absorbing a ridiculous amount of damage.

What 'loads of threads'? There's a scattered few, and in those a few consistent pilots (like yourself) who are dedicated to trying to get 'lights' nerfed because:
1> They cant adapt
2> They want to ignore that it's seems to be combination of factors that are not primarily mech related.

Several times those 'few' have been asked for information to ping times, and jitter etc...which has been ignored.

[Kunae]

Wolfways, on 21 September 2013 - 03:18 AM, said:

I doubt any player who calls himself a "top-level" player would admit it, and if you bother to read you'll see that in the loads of threads about lights the majority of them have nothing to do with aim. It is about lights absorbing a ridiculous amount of damage.

That's not what this thread is about. And 99% of the time what you're talking about has to do with broken spiders, even though people try to conflate Jenners into it, spitefully.

This particular thread is about how the OP can't shoot, and wants all lights nerfed down to the point where he can maybe hit them.

[Earl White]

Improve hit detection/damage recognition, problem solved.