251 replies to this topic

[DaZur]

Hythos, on 23 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Funkadelic Mayhem is really Tom Cruise?!

... It's all starting to make sense now.

[Marlowe Lecter]

Imperius, on 23 September 2013 - 02:55 AM, said:

First of all your {Scrap} vid shows you noob rushing a bunch of mechs in a strait line and them pummeling you. It doesn't show them shooting you accept what appears on your screen. We don't know how many shots actually did and didn't hit because we needed thier perspective not the lights. Because the lights seem to be oblivious to what us assault pilots see all the time. Then you guys claim we are bad shots. Seriously dude who cares if I posted a video or not I don't! I never had **** to prove to you my word is my word I don't do petty things like lieing about a video games problems. If it wasn't a problem then I wouldn't have had to make so many posts hoping just one PGI employee actually reads it and looks into the issue.

TL;DR Your video was worthless. The video by Exo showed everything we needed to prove and I thanked him. Now add that issue to a person using Guass or PPC's with a long reload/cooldown time with added nerfs to both it's GAME BREAKING!

I run my mouth cause I'm right.

Screen shot (or in this case video) or it didn't happen. It's that simple. Your word doesn't mean anything and if you can't, or won't, try to provide evidence then your arguments mean nothing as well. The one video you are clinging to is flawed in that the user didn’t hit the “R” key (something EVERY pilot should ALWAYS do! Though that’s for a different post) so you can’t see the paper doll of the spider at all.
I will say that the video from the Spider pilot’s perspective is also flawed, as you stated. So what we have is 2 videos that don’t prove anything and a bunch of folks pointing at them as if they did.
We have a few rational folks who have shown that the Devs have stated there is a hit registration issue but notice how those statements don’t specify that it belongs only to spiders or light mechs. They do state that is will be more pronounced in lights and that some suggested fixes, if implemented would hurt larger, slower mechs more than it would affect smaller lighter mechs.
While the original poster is obviously biased in one direction, your posts and refusal to even entertain the notion of providing a video makes you look even more like a zealot. At least the original poster is willing to view evidence of something rather than just screaming his side with hands over his eyes.

Yes Hit Reg on Spiders and other lights is an issue, but I do not think it is anywhere near as bad as the people screaming about it in the forums make it out to be. A little rationality, on both sides, goes a long way toward actually solving problems.

[stjobe]

Marlowe Lecter, on 23 September 2013 - 10:37 AM, said:

Yes Hit Reg on Spiders and other lights is an issue

FTFY. It affects all 'mechs.

[dario03]

Since the patch I think spiders are registering damage much better. I would have said they worked perfectly since the not registering was infrequent enough that I could just dismiss the shots that didn't register as just a fluke, lag spike, maybe I didn't really hit, etc. However a while ago I had a fight with a spider that kept running along a wall and I shot him so many times for nearly full-full damage but yet never got him past yellow that I will say that there is still a problem. But now instead of it being a problem ~50% of the time its only like 5% of the time (completely made up numbers btw).

I of course as with almost everyone else offer no video evidence though. I would if my computer could handle it but it barely plays the game as is (all low settings with usually 25-35fps with dips sometimes down to 15fps) and running a video capture program drops the frame rate to single digits. Which honestly I wonder if thats part of the problem. Maybe I and others that see this more often don't have good enough computers and its frame rate drops are throwing off how the game works. I know most games shouldn't have that kind of effect but I think I heard some fighting games do or it could just be a weird glitch.

So anybody that says that are seeing the problem especially often, how well does your computer run the game?

Edited by dario03, 23 September 2013 - 10:58 AM.

[Lostdragon]

Hythos, on 23 September 2013 - 10:30 AM, said:

Oh; meaning the message about PPC's 'cause you felt the need to 'flame' about? Or the message I wrote before that when I described a 50pt+ alpha that dealt no visible damage....

Such playful banter

I didn't flame you, I pointed out that you were wrong. I then made a sarcastic comment about how you completely changed your story when it was pointed out that 5 PPCs at PBR are not expected to do damage to anything. Someone might have believed you if you had said you meant ERPPCs.

I tell you what though, I will be happy to help you prove this is happening. We can group up and I will power down and let you shoot my Jenner with all those weapons you described and we will see what happens.. I have a VPN service so we can do this several times with me at different pings to test how that impacts it.

My only requirement is you fraps it and post all the results in this thread, no matter what happens.

Edited by Lostdragon, 23 September 2013 - 11:02 AM.

[Hythos]

Lostdragon, on 23 September 2013 - 11:01 AM, said:

My only requirement is you fraps it and post all the results, no matter what happens.

Absolutely! I'll PM ya when I'm able to.

[Pendraco]

I can not claim to know what the problem is.....Spider size, Hit boxes or HSR. But I can tell you that in drops I have been in with spiders they are ALMOST always the last Mechs on the field. Often decide the outcome and regularly see them running through entire teams for FAR, FAR longer than ANY other Mech could hope to survive....what other Mech can draw concentrated fire from 5+ Mechs for 3+ MINUTES.....I see this often, and I know others must as well.

So we have to believe that either most Spider pilots are part of some Uber Elite Mechwarrior Piloting group, or that something might be broken with the Spider?

Edited by Pendraco, 23 September 2013 - 11:04 AM.

[stjobe]

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

in drops I have been in with spiders they are ALMOST always the last Mechs on the field.

They are usually left until last because they are no threat.

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

Often decide the outcome

If you mean by capping out the slow assaults left on the enemy team, I regularly do that in my Commando as well.

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

and regularly see them running through entire teams for FAR, FAR longer than ANY other Mech could hope to survive....what other Mech can draw concentrated fire from 5+ Mechs for 3+ MINUTES.....I see this often, and I know others must as well.

And yet nobody can produce a video of it happening. Isn't that amazing?

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:04 AM, said:

So we have to believe that either most Spider pilots are part of some Uber Elite Mechwarrior Piloting group, or that something might be broken with the Spider?

Or that people remember when a Spider does the light dance, but not when a Commando/Jenner/Raven does it? Because Spiders are teh Devul and there's a million forum threads about them?

Yes, hit reg is wonky. Yes, there's holes in the 'mechs hit boxes. Yes, the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit.

Does that mean the Spider is broken, or does it mean that hit reg is wonky, hit boxes have holes in them, and the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit?

[Pendraco]

stjobe, on 23 September 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

They are usually left until last because they are no threat.


If you mean by capping out the slow assaults left on the enemy team, I regularly do that in my Commando as well.


And yet nobody can produce a video of it happening. Isn't that amazing?


Or that people remember when a Spider does the light dance, but not when a Commando/Jenner/Raven does it? Because Spiders are teh Devul and there's a million forum threads about them?

Yes, hit reg is wonky. Yes, there's holes in the 'mechs hit boxes. Yes, the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit.

Does that mean the Spider is broken, or does it mean that hit reg is wonky, hit boxes have holes in them, and the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit?

Well, I am just giving you my observation from many, many matches since Closed Beta, Yes I have seen other mechs do these things, Raven used to have the "magic". I have also seen Spiders with enough kills to embarrass any assault pilot.

Spiders not a threat? Any one actually believe that?

[Pendraco]

stjobe, on 23 September 2013 - 11:15 AM, said:

Yes, hit reg is wonky. Yes, there's holes in the 'mechs hit boxes. Yes, the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit.

Does that mean the Spider is broken, or does it mean that hit reg is wonky, hit boxes have holes in them, and the Spider is a small, agile, fast moving target that's hard to hit?

LOL, I think this is funny. What do you need a video to prove again? Maybe all these things make it a little OP? Just a little?

[Lorcan Lladd]

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

LOL, I think this is funny. What do you need a video to prove again? Maybe all these things make it a little OP? Just a little?

It would be OP if it wasn't a Spider.
Even if it's not easy to hit, it cannot take or dish out any significant amount of damage; in fact, without the added protection of faulty hit registration, the Spider would not be able to hold its ground against the likes of the Jenner and Raven, to say nothing of heavier 'Mechs.

I'd rather fight a lance of Spiders over a lance of D-DCs any day.

[stjobe]

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:21 AM, said:

Spiders not a threat? Any one actually believe that?

Unless you're a base to be capped, a Spider isn't a threat. It's the least armed 'mech in the whole game. It has a maximum of 3 energy hardpoints and doesn't have the tonnage to mount more than one heavy energy weapon.

Pendraco, on 23 September 2013 - 11:26 AM, said:

LOL, I think this is funny. What do you need a video to prove again? Maybe all these things make it a little OP? Just a little?

Which part? The bug of the wonky hit reg (which affects all 'mechs), the bug of the holes in the hit boxes (which also affects all or at least most 'mechs), or the part where it's small, fast, and agile (which all lights are)?


Once the bugs are fixed, Spiders will still be small, fast, agile, and hard to hit. Will you still call them "a little OP" then?

[Mehlan]

Quote

Well, I am just giving you my observation from many, many matches since Closed Beta, Yes I have seen other mechs do these things, Raven used to have the "magic". I have also seen Spiders with enough kills to embarrass any assault pilot.
Spiders not a threat? Any one actually believe that?

I asked for, have yet to see a spider jock with a 3-4.0 KDR posted up...heck anyone even have a 1.5-2.0 kdr spider?

[Andrew Porter]

So... would it be fair to say that the overall position here is that hit boxes are somewhat dodgy across the board (which is more pronounced in smaller mechs due to smaller surface area), hit detection is variable across the board (more pronounced in smaller mechs due to high speed), and whatever HSR voodoo PGI do between patches (I don't know what they do, more worryingly they may not know either!) sometimes improves the situation and sometimes makes it worse? Oh, and the phenomenon differs from player to player, with some proper good players reporting huge problems and some proper good players reporting no problems at all. I guess that means that there is little point discussing it here, because one players apples are another players oranges, and all we can do is wait for PGI to fix it.

The development of this game never ceases to amaze me. PGI acknowledged there is a problem quite a while ago... who has to come back from holiday this time?

Edit: just wanted to explain my bolshy 'QQ moar' attitude near the start of the thread; I have never personally had a clear case of hit-detection-gone-wrong or whatever, so incorrectly assumed that I was really good at the shooting and every one who was complaining was just bad at the shooting and deluded. Sorry about that.

Edited by Andrew Porter, 23 September 2013 - 11:47 AM.

[Pendraco]

Lorcan Lladd, on 23 September 2013 - 11:34 AM, said:

It would be OP if it wasn't a Spider.
Even if it's not easy to hit, it cannot take or dish out any significant amount of damage; in fact, without the added protection of faulty hit registration, the Spider would not be able to hold its ground against the likes of the Jenner and Raven, to say nothing of heavier 'Mechs.

I'd rather fight a lance of Spiders over a lance of D-DCs any day.

I see, so Spiders NEED to be broken. Got it. Perhaps they could break the Commando as well, I hardly see those on the field anymore at all.

As for facing Spiders or D-DC's....alone? Does not matter really, outcome would be the same.....At least you could run from the D-DC's?

[Mehlan]

Quote

So... would it be fair to say that the overall position here is that hit boxes are somewhat dodgy across the board (which is more pronounced in smaller mechs due to smaller surface area), hit detection is variable across the board (more pronounced in smaller mechs due to high speed), and whatever HSR voodoo PGI do between patches (I don't know what they do, more worryingly they may not know either!) sometimes improves the situation and sometimes makes it worse? Oh, and the phenomenon differs from player to player, with some proper good players reporting huge problems and some proper good players reporting no problems at all. I guess that means that there is little point discussing it here, because one players apples are another players oranges, and all we can do is wait for PGI to fix it.

The development of this game never ceases to amaze me. PGI acknowledged there is a problem quite a while ago... who has to come back from holiday this time?

Terminology is off, but you seem to have the gist. Hitboxes in general seems to be fine, hit detection/hsr would seem to be the primary issue, degree of issue possibly compounded by network performance/latency/stability. To be fair to pgi, this is a 'flip a switch' and it's 'fixed' kinda thing...more like trying to tune/balance 4 carbs with just a screwdriver and your ear.

[Andrew Porter]

Mehlan, on 23 September 2013 - 11:51 AM, said:

To be fair to pgi, this is a 'flip a switch' and it's 'fixed' kinda thing...more like trying to tune/balance 4 carbs with just a screwdriver and your ear.

Fair point, I doubt it is easy... that said in a game about shooting robots with your big robot it is pretty important that there is consistency between shooty robots, so...

That makes me think... is this a user specific problem or is it match specific? I mean, are some matches bad detection and others better detection? If it is player-by-player does anything work to help, like reinstalling the game, rebooting router, whatever?

[stjobe]

Andrew Porter, on 23 September 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

Fair point, I doubt it is easy... that said in a game about shooting robots with your big robot it is pretty important that there is consistency between shooty robots, so...

That makes me think... is this a user specific problem or is it match specific? I mean, are some matches bad detection and others better detection? If it is player-by-player does anything work to help, like reinstalling the game, rebooting router, whatever?

There used to be a bug that desynced the hit box from the in-game model if e.g. a 'mech shut down while travelling at speed; once it started up again the hitbox stayed desynced, often several meters in front of the 'mech.

That bug is fixed as far as I know, but several of the anecdotes I read remind me of that bug, and I wonder if a similar bug may still be here.

[BlackIronTarkus]

Im so glad someone made this topic, I was about to do it myself because personnally, I havent come across a single mech that I couldn't hit because of HRS.

The only case where I had problem hitting a mech, and in that case it was a centurion, it was because his ping was so high that he kept warping all over the place and thus making it impossible to lead him.

[PEEFsmash]

Ghogiel, on 23 September 2013 - 08:10 AM, said:

Meanwhile in MWO this is happening....





Video footage from today 2PM UK time.
I backed up my claim about hit detection issues.


inb4 excuses and hand waving away of unmistakeably clear video evidence.

/thread

Great video! Very clear hit detection problems, I'll bet that if this was recorded post patch, it was this weekend.

However, to say "/thread" misinterprets the point of this thread. The point I'm trying to make, and you confirm this with your vide, is that this is not a light issue. You are clearly miss-hitting on a heavy mech, which should tell us that this is not a "light lagshield invincible moving too fast lights" but a general issue with hit detection of all mech chassis that sometimes crops up.

Thanks for posting, you get no hand waving from me.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 23 September 2013 - 12:35 PM.