178 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

Haven't the lights that were planned been faster thus delayed? They can't pump out a mech overnight there is, probably, a long lead time for legal and technical reasons.

Also, remember that there is very little difference in a lot of light mechs, They simply don't have the tonnage to offer much in terms of variety.

You say they can't pump out a mech overnight, but they have pumped out something like 35 mech variants since the last release of a light mech. 35 variants, and 7 Hero Mechs.

Also, the reason that light mechs don't have any variation is because of my points 11-14. There is no variety of light weaponry. The only viable light weapons for serious play are medium lasers and streaks, and streaks are only good against other lights, and are most effective as filler-weapons on Heavies and Assaults to braindead-easy kill lights.

If we had ER Smalls, ER Mediums, useful Smalls, Small Pulses and Medium Pulses, as well as SRMs that did 2.5 damage, useful NARC, Heavy Machineguns and Light Autocannons, then you would see a wealth of variety in the Light class.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 24 September 2013 - 11:55 AM.

[DONTOR]

LOL just because your bad with the Deaths Knell doesnt mean it is bad. Its unbelievably fun to play if you have it mastered, although I admit it was a pain in the a$$ to get it there.

[Agent 0 Fortune]

Locust arrives in 3 weeks.

[Kunae]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 11:43 AM, said:

ECM exists in the timeline. I don't know what you are referring to by "in its current implementation". Everything in this game has been tweaked to some degree.

Read up on it. What MWO has is ~3 completely separate ECM systems in one teeny-weeny package.

[PEEFsmash]

DONTOR, on 24 September 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

LOL just because your bad with the Deaths Knell doesnt mean it is bad. Its unbelievably fun to play if you have it mastered, although I admit it was a pain in the a$$ to get it there.

.......

It might be very fun to play, that doesn't make it good. I really hope I don't have to go into a lengthy argument about why the Deaths Knell is a poor man's (or should I say Rich man's?) Jenner-F. As fun as it may be, it is a terrible mech that will never see the light of a competitive 12-man match.

[FupDup]

Speaking of light mech weapons, I'd love to see the Magshot Gauss Rifle. Basically, it's 0.5 tons, takes 2 slots, gets 50 ammo per ton (MWO would increase to 75 to match other ballistics) does 2 (frontloaded) damage, and has the range of a medium laser. Now THAT would be great for Spiders, Ravens, and Cicadas.

Edited by FupDup, 24 September 2013 - 12:02 PM.

[DocBach]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

If we had ER Smalls, ER Mediums, useful Smalls, Small Pulses and Medium Pulses, as well as SRMs that did 2.5 damage, useful NARC, Heavy Machineguns and Light Autocannons, then you would see a wealth of variety in the Light class.

You'll get ER Smalls and mediums with the Clans. SRM's doing 2 damage is just fine - have you ever thought that maybe the light class isn't suppose to be a powerhouse in the scheme of things?

Right now we have lights that all pretty much do the same thing, which is be quick harassers. The variety that do other things would be terrible unless there was very strict weight limits ie the Panther, UrbanMech, and others would be DOA as they are slow lights. The Javelin would be a good addition as its a missile boat light that jumps, though. One of its variants comes stock with Streak Missiles, making it a great hunter of other lights.

Edited by DocBach, 24 September 2013 - 12:06 PM.

[A banana in the tailpipe]

[Zultor]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

You say they can't pump out a mech overnight, but they have pumped out something like 35 mech variants since the last release of a light mech. 35 variants, and 7 Hero Mechs.

Also, the reason that light mechs don't have any variation is because of my points 11-14. There is no variety of light weaponry. The only viable light weapons for serious play are medium lasers and streaks, and streaks are only good against other lights, and are most effective as filler-weapons on Heavies and Assaults to braindead-easy kill lights.

If we had ER Smalls, ER Mediums, useful Smalls, Small Pulses and Medium Pulses, as well as SRMs that did 2.5 damage, useful NARC, Heavy Machineguns and Light Autocannons, then you would see a wealth of variety in the Light class

You can't have these weapons because they haven't been invented/introduced in the timeline yet.

You really want to go back to the days of uber powerful SSRMs? Seriously! Ok, you can have 1 or two on your light and heavy/assaults will have 6 and own lights again. One of the best things for lights was nerfing the fire and forget SSRMs.

Heavy Machine Gun and Light Autocannons didn't come out till 3068.

Since when has a Small Laser ever been useful except when you put 12 on a medium mech?

Sorry, but you are mixing points and the absurdity of many of your points is probably overshadowing your main point.

- I think your main point is you want more lights. Okay, I can get behind that but I think there are legit reasons why you haven't seen them. After all the Locust is eye candy. It has pathetic stats and armament. I don't think you are going to see many people playing it when it is released.

- When you complain about nerfs (SSRM, etc) I have to laugh because they helped lights not hurt them. Yes lights became a little less powerful but mediums, heavies and assaults became a lot less powerful thus lights moved up the power curve.

- The weapons you want simply don't exist. They aren't going to completely blow up the game for ER Small Lasers when no one cares about them.

Also, I find it interesting you never mentioned the biggest buff in the history of gaming when knockdown was removed. Lights have a much easier time now then they ever did.

[JudgeDeathCZ]

I am not light mech pilot only but I like lights which are ingame over assaults except Awesome(yeah I am weird) and Victor and I rly do not see why I should buy and play new Atlas hero over D-DC or play DK over commando-2D/raven-3L/Jenner-D/Spider-5D.
I am desperately looking forward to Locust bcuz it will be probably last light until Clans arive.

[PropagandaWar]

Once they fix the spider issue they can come out with lights galore. I don't care. I still don't understand why the Jenner, Raven, and Commando seem to get hit more often then not but the spider... well it just needs to be fixed. If I see 2 jenners rush my hunchback I say bring it. I have a good chance of being stomped but still I know they "tend" to take damage. If I see a single spider half the time its like why bother (This after you see two shots not register).

One thing I wish they would fis and this is in regards to all mechs they shouldnt be able to turn on a dime going at high speeds. Turning a street corner at 100kph is not even close to realistic 136kph even more so.

[PEEFsmash]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

You can't have these weapons because they haven't been invented/introduced in the timeline yet.

You really want to go back to the days of uber powerful SSRMs? Seriously! Ok, you can have 1 or two on your light and heavy/assaults will have 6 and own lights again. One of the best things for lights was nerfing the fire and forget SSRMs.

Heavy Machine Gun and Light Autocannons didn't come out till 3068.

Since when has a Small Laser ever been useful except when you put 12 on a medium mech?

Sorry, but you are mixing points and the absurdity of many of your points is probably overshadowing your main point.

- I think your main point is you want more lights. Okay, I can get behind that but I think there are legit reasons why you haven't seen them. After all the Locust is eye candy. It has pathetic stats and armament. I don't think you are going to see many people playing it when it is released.

- When you complain about nerfs (SSRM, etc) I have to laugh because they helped lights not hurt them. Yes lights became a little less powerful but mediums, heavies and assaults became a lot less powerful thus lights moved up the power curve.

- The weapons you want simply don't exist. They aren't going to completely blow up the game for ER Small Lasers when no one cares about them.

Also, I find it interesting you never mentioned the biggest buff in the history of gaming when knockdown was removed. Lights have a much easier time now then they ever did.

I think you are really bad at reading, because you are attempting to refute a bunch of points that I never made. When did I say I wanted a Streak buff or say that I didn't agree with the Streak nerf? The Streak nerf was the best thing that has happened to lights in the last 5 months. When did I say that Small lasers were useful?

PGI has already said they aren't going to stay strict to the timeline, and they have "fudged it" before. Now is the time to fudge it for the sake of gameplay. I'm not waiting around 18 years for an ER Small Laser lol. You have got to be kidding me.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 24 September 2013 - 12:11 PM.

[Kunae]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:05 PM, said:

Also, I find it interesting you never mentioned the biggest buff in the history of gaming when knockdown was removed. Lights have a much easier time now then they ever did.

That wasn't a buff. That was a nerf. I'll explain:

When knockdowns were in, pilots of them needed to be skilled, or they just died. When it was removed, you suddenly had all the stupid noobs flying Jenners because they were hard to kill due to the netcode, at that time. This created great animosity towards lights, and Jenners in particular, which has lead to a heaping-helping of unwarranted nerfs to Jenners, which have been demanded and applauded by the reactionary community fed up with noobs in lights.

This hostile environment exists to this day, and when knockdowns eventually get put back in, these "nerfed due to irrational hatred" lights are going to be severely underpowered and worthless. And the foolish, and easy to hate, community will cheer.

Edited by Kunae, 24 September 2013 - 12:13 PM.

[DocBach]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 12:09 PM, said:

PGI has already said they aren't going to stay strict to the timeline, and they have "fudged it" before. Now is the time to fudge it for the sake of gameplay. I'm not waiting around 18 years for an ER Small Laser. You have got to be kidding me.

I'm betting we'll see substantial jumps in the timeline as expansions, most likely the Technical Readout Years. Next update would be 3055, no new technology yet, just more expensive 'Mechs that come with stuff like XL, endo, and DHS from the get.

[Kunae]

JudgeDeathCZ, on 24 September 2013 - 12:06 PM, said:

I am desperately looking forward to Locust bcuz it will be probably last light until Clans arive.

Heh, no.

Clans will not "arrive" until 2015, at the earliest, and I am sure we'll get more lights before then.

[Zultor]

The problem isn't the lack of light mechs the problem is the lack of a role for light mechs in the game. Basically MWO is an arena style shooter so firepower is king.

At the end of the day this game needs to make money, nothing wrong with that, so look at all the mechs that have been released and think to yourself which ones made the game the least amount of real life money. I bet that list would be filled with mostly lights. Reasoning being they have the least firepower thus undesirable and I can grind out the xp and cbills for a light mech in a single play session so no need to spend real money on MC or premium for them.

The only fix would be for a game mechanic to be introduced that made lights necessary. That is the intend of Conquest mode and capping but since the maps are so small it isn't really relevant.

In short the game design is why you aren't seeing a priority on lights and that is the most difficult thing to change.

[Deathlike]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 24 September 2013 - 11:58 AM, said:

Locust arrives in 3 weeks.

There's a pretty good chance it'll debut in 2, even though people that order their PP will get theirs in 3. The itchy buying finger is still available on schedule.

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

You'll get ER Smalls and mediums with the Clans. SRM's doing 2 damage is just fine - have you ever thought that maybe the light class isn't suppose to be a powerhouse in the scheme of things?

Right now we have lights that all pretty much do the same thing, which is be quick harassers. The variety that do other things would be terrible unless there was very strict weight limits ie the Panther, UrbanMech, and others would be DOA as they are slow lights. The Javelin would be a good addition as its a missile boat light that jumps, though. One of its variants comes stock with Streak Missiles, making it a great hunter of other lights.

Actually, the current state of HSR for SRMs, despite the increased damage is actually pretty terribad. I'm trying to grind with the C4 (which I have effectively trolled myself) and the state of SRMs even while chainfired is just terribad. Streaks are far more reliable, despite the randomness (and its tendency to annihilate BJs).

[stjobe]

For the record, it's not five months, it's eight.

The Spider was introduced with the Jan. 15th patch.

And yes, it's about g-ddamn time we got a new light; in the time since the Spider was introduced we've gotten three mediums (Blackjack, Trebuchet, Kintaro), three heavies (Quickdraw, JagerMech, Orion), and two assaults (Victor, Highlander).

Either way you count things - counting the Locust or the whenever-it-arrives Flea - we're still at least one and perhaps two light 'mechs short.

As a light pilot, I find this unacceptable.

[Kunae]

Zultor, on 24 September 2013 - 12:13 PM, said:

The problem isn't the lack of light mechs the problem is the lack of a role for light mechs in the game. Basically MWO is an arena style shooter so firepower is king.

At the end of the day this game needs to make money, nothing wrong with that, so look at all the mechs that have been released and think to yourself which ones made the game the least amount of real life money. I bet that list would be filled with mostly lights. Reasoning being they have the least firepower thus undesirable and I can grind out the xp and cbills for a light mech in a single play session so no need to spend real money on MC or premium for them.

The only fix would be for a game mechanic to be introduced that made lights necessary. That is the intend of Conquest mode and capping but since the maps are so small it isn't really relevant.

In short the game design is why you aren't seeing a priority on lights and that is the most difficult thing to change.

Maps need to be 10x+ larger, games need to last 2-6 times as long, and should be more linear as far as objectives go.

[Deathlike]

stjobe, on 24 September 2013 - 12:15 PM, said:

For the record, it's not five months, it's eight.

The Spider was introduced with the Jan. 15th patch.

I remember the days where I trolled Spiders during its debut with the OP 3L. It was DOA at the time.

Of course with the wonky HSR, hitboxes and better pilots, I guess the Spider is "climbing back up the spout".

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 12:17 PM.