178 replies to this topic

[Deathlike]

FupDup, on 24 September 2013 - 01:45 PM, said:

Light mechs *under standard conditions* are not able to stay in firefights as long as their heavier counterparts, which reduces their damage/kill/assist farming capabilities (things which make money and xp). Capturing points gives all but zero rewards.

Oh Conquest nerf, oh how I stopped playing thee.

Edited by Deathlike, 24 September 2013 - 01:53 PM.

[Mystere]

Orkhepaj, on 24 September 2013 - 01:19 PM, said:

why not just remove lights? they have no real role

You're going to have to pry my cold dead corpse out of my Spider to take it way from me.




As for not having any role, the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that spiders seem to produce among AssaultWarriors is proof enough that they do have a role.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 24 September 2013 - 01:32 PM, said:

Oh, don't get me started...

The reward system in this game is tailored to the one thing that lights really aren't good at, and there's exactly zero incentives to do anything but that.

Incidentally, that thing is also what heavies and assaults excel at.


The lolwut now? Come on Bishop, you're usually better than that.

Yes, they need to fix bugs and issues, but that's no reason to halt light 'mech production for nine freaking months. Back in the spring, when HSR was introduced, nobody complained about "indestructible" lights - did their hit boxes get bugged since then? Or is everyone just exaggerating their heads off to nerf an already underplayed weight class just because they can't bother to learn playing against them?

See, I can do it too

I didn't say that is why, or presume to speak for them Jobe. I simple said, IMO, since the Wolfpack seems to be the new Meta, until they balance it, you won't hear me cry over there not being MORE light mechs magically able to shrug off ac20 rounds like rain. Sorry that ****** on your personal bailiwick for driving mechs, but it's just my opinion on the matter. Through teamwork and hit and fade, Lights should be able to fight against larger mechs.

They should not be able to run through your ranks with impunity against mechs with much more armor and firepower and shred them.

And I would hope you know me better than to think I am exaggerating. I might not walk around stroking my epeen like some users, but I am a pretty damn solid pilot. And I cannot begin to count the number of times I have aimed CT rear on a shutdown Spider or Commando, and unleashed anywhere from a 40-78 pt alpha, only to have the thing power up and run away without even having breached armor. And that ain't even getting to the moving ones I know I have tagged that go unscathed. DO I also get the one hit splats? Yup. But not near as often or consistent as I should.

HSR, Hit Detection has been acknowledged to be borked by the Devs. The Models ALL have holes and gaps, which allow for shots to pass straight through, a lot at the waist will allow damage to pass from the front to hit the REAR torso. a "Known issue, workign as intended" according to the Dev who responded to my help ticket about my Protector getting rear CT cored out FROM THE FRONT.

There are some dang good Light Pilots out there bro. But just like back in the day with the Ravens, there are a ton who are taking advantage of the hit issues, knowingly or not, to seem a LOT better than they really are. (Not to mention I still wanna know whats up with all the uber high ping Lights teleporting all over the battlefield. Actual glitch or exploit?)

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 September 2013 - 02:00 PM.

[stjobe]

Orkhepaj, on 24 September 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

heh ? how is it harder? pls enlighten us

The reward system rewards doing damage, getting assists, and killing. All things heavy and assault 'mechs are good at.

Lights, with their low armour and relatively lower fire power, aren't as good at doing damage, getting assists, and killing as their heavier brethren. Therefore, it is harder to get XP/CB in a light than in a heavier 'mech.

Also, some people seem to be under the delusion that lights should be scouts and not fight at all. Well, if that gave anything but a pittance of spotting XP, you might have a point. But it doesn't, so you don't. Scouting is not a role in MWO.

It should probably be noted that mediums are in almost the same boat as lights here, but they're generally a bit better armed and armoured than lights, so they tend to have a bit easier to rack up the damage (and thereby kills/assists, which directly translates to CB/XP).

[A Man In A Can]

Oh yeah the Javelin. The Commando with jump jets. Has enough different variants before 3050 that aren't OP if they make the hardpoints literal. Just 2-3 missile hardpoints in the chest? With the third being 4 laser hardpoints? Yeah. Could certainly be added without affecting too much.

Then there's the Firestarter....which they'll probably release with another buff to flamers. Would certainly be a nice humanoid 35 tonner.

I wouldn't hold my breath for any Urbanmechs. Too much work needed to rip out the existing engine system just to include one mech that most people will think is bloody insane if they think the Raven X series is too slow for lights. And you can pretend to be an Urbie anyway in a Spider.

But ultimately, the devs aren't going to add any more new chassis of mechs as they want to make use of the buffer they have, which will go all the way to the end of the year. That means all you have to look forward to are the Phoenix mechs and any hero mechs of older chassis along the way.

Next year though I suppose we'll see.

[Stoicblitzer]

are you still playing this?

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

I didn't say that is why, or presume to speak for them Jobe. I simple said, IMO, since the Wolfpack seems to be the new Meta, until they balance it, you won't hear me cry over there not being MORE light mechs magically able to shrug off ac20 rounds like rain. Sorry that ****** on your personal bailiwick for driving mechs, but it's just my opinion on the matter. Through teamwork and hit and fade, Lights should be able to fight against larger mechs.

What is a "wolfpack" if not teamwork? By your own words, they "should be able to fight against larger 'mechs".

Not that I personally see much of any light "wolfpacks", but that may just be my low Elo or my PUG playstyle.

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

They should not be able to run through your ranks with impunity against mechs with much more armor and firepower and shred them.

And they don't.

[Bishop Steiner]

Mystere, on 24 September 2013 - 01:53 PM, said:

You're going to have to pry my cold dead corpse out of my Spider to take it way from me.




As for not having any role, the vast flowing rivers of male nerd rage tears that spiders seem to produce among AssaultWarriors is proof enough that they do have a role.

I just hope you still feel that way when/if they fix the hit registry. I still remember the delightful river of nerd rage tears from all the "pro" pilots in their immortal Raven-3Ls when they suddenly weren't impervious anymore and it exposed who the real LightWarriors were, and who the Tryhards were.

We need all the REAL Light pilots we can get. We don't need all the wannabes who THINK they are good because they can exploit broken hit detection.

stjobe, on 24 September 2013 - 01:59 PM, said:

What is a "wolfpack" if not teamwork? By your own words, they "should be able to fight against larger 'mechs".

Not that I personally see much of any light "wolfpacks", but that may just be my low Elo or my PUG playstyle.


And they don't.

and they do. All the bloody time. Must not see it in your ELO.

4 Lights, unless actually piloted by UberWarriors, should NEVER be able to spend several minutes running among 8-12 Medium thru Assaults and live. Have witnessed it many time. Some of it is the skill of the Heavier unit being lacking. Some of it is mechs getting nailed with unbelievable damage and registering little to no damage.

Sorry to break it to you, but a Light Mech was never meant to be able to go toe to toe in battle with heavier units. They were supposed to be able to prevail ONLY through non linear warfare and hit and fade tactics.

Not park behind a mech going to town with machineguns, get nailed with 4 ac20 rounds to the torso, then run away to park behind another mech.

Edited by Bishop Steiner, 24 September 2013 - 02:10 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Want more hero lights? HAVE A HERO ATLAS! XD

Boars Head comming soon.

[100mile]

What really needs to happen is more experience/cash for doing light pilot tasks....there needs to be more emphasis/rewards put on being a light pilot.....

More light mechs do us no good if the role has no meaning....

You wanna wine n cheese party have that as your center peice...

[Mystere]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

I just hope you still feel that way when/if they fix the hit registry. I still remember the delightful river of nerd rage tears from all the "pro" pilots in their immortal Raven-3Ls when they suddenly weren't impervious anymore and it exposed who the real LightWarriors were, and who the Tryhards were.

We need all the REAL Light pilots we can get. We don't need all the wannabes who THINK they are good because they can exploit broken hit detection.


and they do. All the bloody time. Must not see it in your ELO.

I've been running Spiders, with an ERPPC to boot, well before they both even became "fashionable".

As such, everyone else that followed was just a copycat as far as I am concerned.

[MonkeyCheese]

I was saying this a while ago http://mwomercs.com/...ost__p__2645218

But its obvious with the MC - ton scale the bigger the mech the more it costs in real money.

[John Buford]

So PEEF while I do agree with you that there needs to be more Lights which ones are you looking for them to add? You keep shooting down things like the Locust and the Javalin and while they are not top tier they can be fun which is why I play.

[stjobe]

Bishop Steiner, on 24 September 2013 - 02:05 PM, said:

Sorry to break it to you, but a Light Mech was never meant to be able to go toe to toe in battle with heavier units. They were supposed to be able to prevail ONLY through non linear warfare and hit and fade tactics.

This is where you're mistaken. A well-piloted light versus a well-piloted assault should be a toss-up, not a walkover for the assault. A well-piloted light versus a badly piloted assault? Cake-walk for the light. A well-piloted assault versus a badly piloted light? Same cake-walk for the assault.

The game's very existence hinges on this, make no mistake. If pilot skill becomes immaterial to success, this game is dead.

Player versus Player, not tonnage versus tonnage.

[PEEFsmash]

Syllogy, on 24 September 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

I find it hilarious that you gripe about light mechs not taking damage, but then insist that the speed cap should be removed, which would make the problem even worse.

Where did I ever gripe about light mechs not taking damage? I have said just the opposite, that lights are taking the same amount of damage as anyone else. Just link me the post where I said that.

[Odins Fist]

PEEFsmash, on 24 September 2013 - 11:28 AM, said:

"No New Lights In 5 Months"

Yeah, and this is a bad thing why..??

[Monky]

100 tons is pretty light, c'mon guys. They could let us do orbital PPC strikes.

[Bishop Steiner]

stjobe, on 24 September 2013 - 02:24 PM, said:

This is where you're mistaken. A well-piloted light versus a well-piloted assault should be a toss-up, not a walkover for the assault. A well-piloted light versus a badly piloted assault? Cake-walk for the light. A well-piloted assault versus a badly piloted light? Same cake-walk for the assault.

The game's very existence hinges on this, make no mistake. If pilot skill becomes immaterial to success, this game is dead.

Player versus Player, not tonnage versus tonnage.

And that is where I disagree. Part of skill shoudl be tactics. Lights should be able to beat Heavies. Through the occasional skill imbalance, but more often then not, through superior tactics and patience.

You don't take a SEAL team highspeed sandrail into a "fair" fight with an M1A1. You set up ambushes, bring it where it's lack of mobility is a detriment, and otherwise use your light and fast assets to try to counter it's armor and firepower.

That is NOT the scenario seen often in MWO, currently. Unless it's a Medium Pilot. Then they don't get the nice protection Lights currently do, and have to use those tactics. Do GOOD light pilots use them? Sure. But there aren't THAT many good pilots in this game, period, let alone good light Pilots.

But no dude. On a flat, featureless field, a Light Mech, piloted against an equal pilot in a Heavy or Assault, should not win. Hate to say it, but straight up combat is NOT supposed to be the role of a Light Mech, no matter tha borked status of roles and rewardsin MWO.

[Shadey99]

DocBach, on 24 September 2013 - 12:01 PM, said:

Right now we have lights that all pretty much do the same thing, which is be quick harassers. The variety that do other things would be terrible unless there was very strict weight limits ie the Panther, UrbanMech, and others would be DOA as they are slow lights. The Javelin would be a good addition as its a missile boat light that jumps, though. One of its variants comes stock with Streak Missiles, making it a great hunter of other lights.

While this Panther PNT-10K as a JR7-D shows what a stock Panther looks like, based on existing lights a fully 'upgraded' Panther could likely look more like the 'Panther' JR7-D. Much like alot of Spider builds now except with missiles in the CT. It is slightly slower than a typical 'light' in the current meta and much more like some mediums... But then it is 35 tons, another 5 tons and it would be a medium.

Personally I think the Hussar (151 kph stock), Javelin (Light missile boat much like the Commando, but with JJs), Firestarter (lots of energy slots and a couple ballistics), Mongoose (base 130 kph and solid hard points), Mercury (The Fleas bigger brother and a much bigger risk to the speed cap with a stock speed of 129.6 kph), and Urbanmech (The only real light mech to carry big ballistics AC10s, Gauss, and AC20s) would all be solid additions to MWO... Though some probably easier to play than others.

[Curccu]

But hey less than 3 weeks to locust!! with nerfed machineguns :/