129 replies to this topic

[OmniJackal]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 25 September 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

OmiJackal I 100% agree with you the whole idea of this game is so far one big promise of what it will be, with no reason as to why we havent seen anything new. The mechs are a cash grab and until the cow runs out of milk or pgi starts respecting their customers i cant see change any time soon.

Exactly. The Phoenix package hasn't even been delivered yet and they're already talking about a clan invasion package. This is a SLAP IN THE FACE to everyone that spent money on these guys in good faith. I wish I was a lawyer because the constant lip service to INVESTORS at this point seems down right criminal.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

would be nice if this subject could get settled as it does pop up enough, we need a dev or someone of authority to fill us in on the current price reasoning and what is the money going to. Right now im seeing almost no dev interaction with the community and only willing to answer youre own question, this doesnt paint a picture of success if anything it looks like the ship is sinking and you dont want to cause a panic.

[OmniJackal]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 25 September 2013 - 07:34 PM, said:

would be nice if this subject could get settled as it does pop up enough, we need a dev or someone of authority to fill us in on the current price reasoning and what is the money going to. Right now im seeing almost no dev interaction with the community and only willing to answer youre own question, this doesnt paint a picture of success if anything it looks like the ship is sinking and you dont want to cause a panic.

The price point is there because people will pay anything for BT. People are complaining that a mech here costs $30 but look at what the tabletop hobby costs. I finally quit Warhammer 40,000 after the $10,000 mark. The price would be justified only if the game was where they said it would be at by this point.

[FactorlanP]

My opinion...

In a free to play game, the primary goal is to entice players to make micro transactions... In fact, that FIRST micro transaction is the most important.

The first transaction "breaks the dam", so to speak. Helps the player get comfortable with the idea of spending a small amount of cash on a game.

A couple of dollars here and there, no big deal at all....

It makes people more likely to be open to the idea of spending "a little bit more" for a cool accessory or piece of equipment...

Personally, I think that PGI is foolish to limit C-Bills as harshly as they have.

They have effectively made buying a mech a very very serious investment of a players time. When, in fact, they should be making it very easy for a player to fill up those free four mech bays very quickly...

A mech bay is the micro transaction that breaks the spending cash dam...

But for some reason, PGI is more focused on the high end transactions... The Hero mechs and Champion mechs.... These ARE NOT micro transactions....

Paint colors, camouflages, and mech bays should be dirt cheap, just to get folks in the mood to spend money on the game.... Then, entice them to spend on Hero mechs and more pricey stuff later, after they are accustomed to laying out real cash...

Just my opinion, your mileage may vary...

[OmniJackal]

Very good point. If you're out drinking with friends, once you break that seal you spend the rest of the night peeing every 15 minutes.

Edited by OmniJackal, 25 September 2013 - 08:15 PM.

[Texas Merc]

FactorlanP, on 25 September 2013 - 07:58 PM, said:

In fact, that FIRST micro transaction is the most important.

The first transaction "breaks the dam", so to speak. Helps the player get comfortable with the idea of spending a small amount of cash on a game.

A couple of dollars here and there, no big deal at all....

It makes people more likely to be open to the idea of spending "a little bit more" for a cool accessory or piece of equipment...

Personally, I think that PGI is foolish to limit C-Bills as harshly as they have.

edited for clarity

[FactorlanP]

Texas Merc, on 25 September 2013 - 08:20 PM, said:

edited for clarity

Thanks... I apologize if I wasn't clear... A lifelong friend sent me an especially nice micro-distillery bottle of scotch which I just couldn't wait to sample...

[CrashieJ]

Funny thing is, I don't they KNOW how to price things correctly to draw in a paying-customer base.

$30-$40 a mech? HECK NO

PGI is better off selling mechs at a $5-15 range depending on weight class and throwing in a few free tidbits for the lols

"F*CKING MICROTRANSACTIONS, HOW DO THEY WORK?"

Saying that the Atlas is a top tier Avatar was a really bad move.

[FactorlanP]

gavilatius, on 25 September 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Funny thing is, I don't they KNOW how to price things correctly to draw in a paying-customer base.

$30-$40 a mech? HECK NO

PGI is better off selling mechs at a $5-15 range depending on weight class and throwing in a few free tidbits for the lols

"F*CKING MICROTRANSACTIONS, HOW DO THEY WORK?"

Saying that the Atlas is a top tier Avatar was a really bad move.

If Hero mechs were in the $8 range I would probably have them all... You should see what I spent on Rise of Flight...

When you get to the $20 neighborhood, the logical side of the brain tends to kick in a bit harder...

I can easily tel lmy wife that I spent $8 or $9 on a game.... I tell her I spent $35, and she starts to wonder "on what"...

I tell her that I spent $35 several times, and she REALLY starts to wonder...

Edited by FactorlanP, 25 September 2013 - 08:44 PM.

[OmniJackal]

gavilatius, on 25 September 2013 - 08:32 PM, said:

Funny thing is, I don't they KNOW how to price things correctly to draw in a paying-customer base.

$30-$40 a mech? HECK NO

PGI is better off selling mechs at a $5-15 range depending on weight class and throwing in a few free tidbits for the lols

"F*CKING MICROTRANSACTIONS, HOW DO THEY WORK?"

Saying that the Atlas is a top tier Avatar was a really bad move.

Look at World of Tanks and War Thunder in comparison. In world of tanks everyone and their freaking mom owns a Type-59, Lowe, T34, Super Pershing, IS-6, all of them, or a combination of a few of them. I own several myself. Those were/are expensive tanks but they can get away with charging that much because the game has excellent replay value and a competetive community. A Lowe and T34 costs over $50 and people still buy them. Now what about War Thunder? FW-190 D-13, $20, P-51d-NA-20, $20, New flavor of the month premium Spitfire Mk. 9, I don't want to do math, less than $10? Those planes are all extremely fun to fly. In fact MOST premium planes in War Thunder are less than $10 and I'm pretty sure ALL of them are under $20 (except the XP-55 which is being reduced in price and the German La-5 which still has its old fotm broken flight model price). Now THAT'S great value. And then just to sweeten the deal both Wargaming and Gaijin CONSTANTLY have sales that make me actually want to spend money. PGI has sales? 50% off an overpriced color...big freaking deal. If colors were half the price they are now they'd still be twice as much as I would pay for them.

So where is the disconnect? REPLAY VALUE. War Thunder and WoT both have SHOWN progression in terms of advancing the game. Both have released a steady stream of content. Both have more things to do. Both keep me coming back and spending more money. What does MWO have? Empty promises. Missed deadlines. Ghost heat (I will never stop pointing out how ridiculously stupid ghost heat is, I think PGI owes me a poster of it so I can hang it on my wall for easy reference). The same old mechs with new models and different layouts to play on the same boring maps on the same boring game modes. Give us UI2.0. Give us CW. Give us Solaris. Then you have earned the right to charge us $50 for a mech.

[Dr B00t]

Crohnic, on 25 September 2013 - 05:37 PM, said:

I've changed my mind about the value of Hero Mechs which I used to consider overpriced. That is due to recognizing the value of a permanent c-bill boost versus the cost of Premium time. A Hero Mech will slowly pay back your investment every time you bring it out of the Mech Lab. The F2P model is not designed for value minded players (aka tightwads) such as myself to buy more than a couple of Hero Mechs. I personally would be happy with just a Hunchback Hero Mech.

Also keep in mind that the true cost of MW:O is more than what you get in terms of pixels, it is also about funding the servers which have traditionally been supported through subscriptions or FPS clans depending on the game. Let's say that the cost of keeping the server running breaks down to $2 per paying customer per month, that is $24 set aside out of your c-bill purchases right off the bat each year. If you translate that to 30-50% of the cost of a Hero Mech as keeping the sever going, then the value of what you get for your money spent seems a little more reasonable.

Of course, you should shoot for the getting the best deal by purchasing c-bills during Thanksgiving or Christmas when they are expected to go on sale. I bought 14,400 c-bills during Christmas for $50 (288/dollar). Wait until your Hero Mech of choice goes on sale and combine the savings.

14.4k c-bills? nice...but my modem is 36k!

[Sandpit]

Bottom line is this. You have quite a few players telling you they won't spend money because it's too expensive. You have a some saying they spend money regardless. If pgi were smart (which is debatable and subjective) they would drop the price. Two things happen at this point, first those players not spending money? They start spending money. That increases revenue. Secondly, the players already spending money don't change the amount of money they spend, they just get more content for the same amount. The only problem with this?(and the entire game as a whole in the eyes of some at this point) There must be enough regular content and replay value in order to keep those players spending

[CrashieJ]

Sandpit, on 25 September 2013 - 09:03 PM, said:

Bottom line is this. You have quite a few players telling you they won't spend money because it's too expensive. You have a some saying they spend money regardless. If pgi were smart (which is debatable and subjective) they would drop the price. Two things happen at this point, first those players not spending money? They start spending money. That increases revenue. Secondly, the players already spending money don't change the amount of money they spend, they just get more content for the same amount. The only problem with this?(and the entire game as a whole in the eyes of some at this point) There must be enough regular content and replay value in order to keep those players spending

OH MY GOD, A STEADY STREAM REGULAR CONTENT AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE?

do you know who can really do the job?

THE ******* COMMUNITY.

[Zanathan]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 25 September 2013 - 05:36 PM, said:

The only way something will ever happen in our favour (the player/consumer) is if people stopped buying MC anything until a dev gives a reason to spend our money.


Until then as the saying goes "a fool and his money are soon parted"


vote with youre wallet not a forum poll

Unfortunately I have a feeling the number of people willingly to spend outweighs those of us trying to make a statement with our wallets.

Just look at the new Atlas hero mech threads for proof ...

[CrashieJ]

OmniJackal, on 25 September 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

The price point is there because people will pay anything for BT. People are complaining that a mech here costs $30 but look at what the tabletop hobby costs. I finally quit Warhammer 40,000 after the $10,000 mark. The price would be justified only if the game was where they said it would be at by this point.

but the thing is, the TableTop items last you what, 10-20-35 Years if handled properly?
-Not in MW:O, expect the servers to go down and the lights turn off

can you change the rules of tabletop depending on certain conditions?
-Not in MW:O, expect playstructure based around the whims of developers

can you make your own campaigns and post them up on fansites?
-sorta in MW:O, but expect PGI to whisk it away to the "fanart" section

-can you actively give voice commands?
not in MWO, C3 VOIP is a dud.

TLDR: yeah you spent $10,000 on a GW playset... but guess what, 30 years down the road, you can still play with that set... and 30 years down the road Warhammer 40K will still be relevant.

[Sandpit]

gavilatius, on 25 September 2013 - 09:09 PM, said:

OH MY GOD, A STEADY STREAM REGULAR CONTENT AT AN AFFORDABLE PRICE?

do you know who can really do the job?

THE ******* COMMUNITY.

2 years ago I suggested letting players design logos, decals, and such. I could pay a fee to upload the decal and have a player marketplace I could put them up for sale on. I could charge whatever I wanted in c-bills. So say your unit wanted a custom decal. I pop open PhotoShop and design one for you. I pay the server xx MC to upload the design. You pay me xx amount of c-bills for the content. I makes monies, pgi makes money, everybody nappies. Voce versa you could also do an all MC design where I pay xx MC and then charge players xx amount MC out of the marketplace. Once again pgi wins due to everyone buying MC to make these transactions. You could even charge a broker fee that takes xx% of the MC back to the house and removed from the economy to help prevent inflation. Obviously you would have to have some checks and balances and tweak the system here and there to ensure market doesn't get flooded and inflation doesn't run rampant

[Kaijin]

PGI is the developer, and doesn't set the prices. The publisher they sold their collective souls to does. That publisher is IGP, a shadowy mystery company. Some insight into their pricing strategy might be gleaned from the who's who of 7G Entertainment, IGP's parent company, both of which were probably created on the same day.

Nick Foster is CEO of 7GE (and also of IGP). Nick is the former COO of the since failed game publisher Outspark, and he was also the CTO for Starz Media.

Kelly Zmak is Pres. of Publishing, formerly Pres. of Relic Ent., and VP. Prod. Sierra Ent.

Richard Waller was CFO. According to his linkedin page, he is "Co founder and CFO of an online game company in Canada", but his employment with 7GE is listed now as past employment (Aug 2011 to Sep 2012). Prior to 7GE, he's been Nexon's CFO, and also Senior Director of Finance at Apple Japan.

Anthony Brown is Founder of 7GE. He is also the GM of Seven Group Data Management, an IT company that is apparently 7GE's parent company.

7GE doesn't have much of a footprint - Just this investment brochure I got the above info from. www.7gentertainment.com goes to IGP's page.

It's a mystery who they replaced Richard Waller with, as IGP isn't forthcoming at all with who's who in their corporate structure.

Edited by Kaijin, 26 September 2013 - 04:02 AM.

[RapierE01]

Too expensive C-Bills Mechs and to long grinding ways? WTF? Try to play other free to play Games like Tanks. To buy a LVL 7 or 8 Tank you need weeks of games. In MWO you can buy your stuff after 3 Days of grinding. Or Games were you dont have a chance without spending real Money.

And why not? I dont want my next Mech after 10 Matches. I dont want my Mech full mastered after 2 Days. Its okay if i have to spend time to reach my goal.

[Team Leader]

Sandpit, on 25 September 2013 - 02:34 PM, said:

I don't think anyone is complaining that there is a money system in the game. They have to have a way to make income. Nobody stated (that I saw) they should do away with ways to make money. That's not even what this thread is about. It's about how much they charge for how little you get and how they're idea of a micro-transaction isn't very micro.

Yes, exactly, this is what I think but so much more clear

[DeadlyNerd]

Archio, on 25 September 2013 - 12:29 PM, said:

<tinfoil hat>

This game feels like a ploy to grab as much money as possible while holding out a carrot on a string (UI 2.0, CW, ClanTech). Then once they have enough money, or feel they cant get any more, they'll walk away.

</tinfoil hat>

They do that and I'll go on a manhunt on russ.

Anyway, the reason they are charging as much as a new game for each mech is because each mech, from their point of view, is a whole new game^^. Like the OP said, mechs and maps are the only content this game has so PGI treats it like a new game every time around.
Sure, it works on the simple crowd, but for how long... Even idiots learn that it's bad putting your {Richard Cameron} through a hole in the chicken pen.

edit : TIL Richard Cameron is a d.ick

Edited by DeadlyNerd, 26 September 2013 - 05:51 AM.