170 replies to this topic

[Wintersdark]

Heffay, on 07 October 2013 - 09:05 AM, said:

How would the WD faction work when battling the House factions? Right now they are planning on putting Houses up against each other, using Lone Wolves to fill in the gaps. Would you have a WD dropping against a Steiner lance? Or would WD members be used like the lone wolves, as fillers for House battles?

If they have their own faction, I can foresee a future where there are so many different factions that getting a battle will be 1 Steiner vs 1 Kurita, and a bunch of lone wolves making up the rest.

Eh. So many things to figure out. I can be patient until they release more details. Us asking the questions means they probably asked the very same questions in house months ago.

Yeah, we don't know nearly enough about this. I imagine these quasi-faction units will be in addition to faction unit membership - unlike player Merc Corps, which are unique CW actors, the House Units (of which Wolf's Dragoons is one, albeit an oddball one) are very likely just subsets of Faction membership.

DirePhoenix, on 07 October 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

This is a game, not an actual military structure. Besides, you also don't get promoted just for hanging around long enough, which is what we'll have if there is no rank decay. After about a year everyone will be warlords or grand marshalls, and how realistic is that?

That makes no sense. You don't gain rank for being pretty, you do it for acting.

You'd gain rank in game for the same accomplishments either way, but without rank decay you could get there over a year with very casual play, or quickly with hardcore play. Rank Decay makes it impossible to acheive anything without hardcore play, and that's a terribly bad game design. There's a very good reason every MMO moved away from that model.

[Heffay]

DirePhoenix, on 07 October 2013 - 09:08 AM, said:

This is a game, not an actual military structure. Besides, you also don't get promoted just for hanging around long enough, which is what we'll have if there is no rank decay. After about a year everyone will be warlords or grand marshalls, and how realistic is that?

Ranks don't decay in real life. They shouldn't decay in game. It's very poor game design and will just drive people away, burn them out, or keep them from coming back.

SO many reasons to not have rank decay. Ugh... ugh. It's just bad. Horrible game design.

Wintersdark, on 07 October 2013 - 09:12 AM, said:

That makes no sense. You don't gain rank for being pretty, you do it for acting.

I beg to differ.

[stinkypuppy]

imagine if real life had rank decay...

some sergeant and his squad is assigned to defending a outpost. after 1 week of no activity the general calls him up and says "ok **** it you are now a private i will get another sergeant in here to replace you"

imagine how annoying it would be in game if you spent a month to earn a high rank like lieutenant then went on vacation for a week only to come back and find you are back to grunt and you loose all your loyalty bonus and now your exclusive faction *enter mech here* is gone.

[oldradagast]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:32 AM, said:

Passive detoriation makes no sense really. I cant remember a single military organisation where you lost rank because you havent fought in any battle for a while.

But we are talking switching sides here from the US of A to the UDSSR.

You think Mr. President is still gonna have your picture on his front desk after he got word that youre now Stalins errant boy? And dont even talk about what Stalin will do once he figures out you played him and left for China

Oh, I understand that - I'm just against passive loss of rank which can then lead to loss of some in-game ability, bonus, etc. Sorry, but if my bonuses, XP, special mechs, or whatever are going to vanish or be punished because I went on vacation or had a losing streak, well... that's just absurd and punishes casual players heavily.

As for losing rank for switching sides, sure, I get that.

Edited by oldradagast, 07 October 2013 - 10:33 AM.

[Riptor]

Wintersdark, on 07 October 2013 - 08:48 AM, said:

Players who are not/do not want to be in a player Merc unit? This is kind of a silly question.

Have you even read what i wrote? Pay some attention.

I wrote that Wolfs Dragoons will not be available for players who are part of a merc unit

Why should players who dont want to join a merc unit first join a merc unit and then leave it? That was the whole point of my argument.

Wolfs dragoons is for faction players only because it is a faction unit of its own

I allready said that the wolfs dragoons are faction players only and that this was the special reward if you go faction instead of merc was stated during the presentation.

Do you people even pay attention`?

DirePhoenix, on 07 October 2013 - 09:00 AM, said:

Mercs get faction rep/LP just like faction loyalists do. The main difference between faction and mercs is where the contribution goes for victories/losses. Factions play for warfronts, Mercs play for planets beyond the fronts.

And yet you cant be a member of a merc unit and member of a faction unit at the same time so you STILL wont be able to join Wolfs dragoons aslong as you are not a faction player.

Because wolfs dragoons is not a player run unit, its a faction unit just like the houses. MERC UNIT PLAYERS HAVE NOTHING TO DO WITH IT.

So arguing from the viewpoint of merc units as if they can join wolfs dragoons is foolish enough. They are treated as a faction unit yet will not be their own faction. If they where they would need their own frontlines and own capturable planets.

Yet all they have is ONE planet and thats outreach, completly neutral.

Also what you said does not change the stupidity of being a traitor to one side and still keeping all your loyality points with the side you just betrayed. ESPECIALY since the inner sphere isnt composed of democracies but run feudal system style where mechwarriors where akin to knights fighting for their lords.

Treason was taken very seriously and even if you betrayed your faction for another that other faction would have keep an eye on your further actions, once a traitor allways a traitor.

oldradagast, on 07 October 2013 - 10:32 AM, said:

Oh, I understand that - I'm just against passive loss of rank which can then lead to loss of some in-game ability, bonus, etc. Sorry, but if my bonuses, XP, special mechs, or whatever are going to vanish or be punished because I went on vacation or had a losing streak, well... that's just absurd and punishes casual players heavily.

As for losing rank for switching sides, sure, I get that.

Yeah thats the main crux.

There really is no compelling reason not to loose standing with the faction you just betrayed. However you should not loose loyality just cause you didnt lock in for a week or two.. even for a year. The fame might be gone but even after one year absence from the front line it would be stupid to question ones loyality to their choosen faction.

On the other hand betraying your faction should set you straight to zero for that faction. It just doesnt make any sense to call it loyality points anymore. This isnt WoW where youre grinding points for factions that are not in open conflict with each other.

Its like switching from alliance to horde with your char (if that was possible) and still expect to be welcommed with open arms in Stormwind... AFTER you slaughtered your way through your former allies.

Edited by Riptor, 07 October 2013 - 02:43 PM.

[VanillaG]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Also Wolfs Dragoons are a faction unit, they wont even be available for merc units because they (the players) are allready in a merc unit. Wich they would have to leave before even able to join wolfs dragoons.

In order to join wolfs dragoons you would have to leave your current unit. Who would do that?

My understanding that when someone joins a faction and starts grinding loyalty and at 1000 points they are eligible join the "321 Faction Militia" unit. As a member of that unit they have access to a unique skin, colors, or decals. Once they get to 2000 points they are eligible to "421 Better than a militia" unit with similar benefits. This goes on until they reach the top "You probably read about this unit a book" unit.

In the case of Wolfs Dragoons, it appears that merc unit needs to grind max faction for all factions to unlock the unique Dragoons items. It might even possible to unlock faction specific merc unit items while grinding loyalty, like the Grey Death Legion for House Steiner. At no point do you have join the merc unit, you just get the ability to wear their colors as a show of how loyal you are to that faction.

[Riptor]

VanillaG, on 07 October 2013 - 02:54 PM, said:

My understanding that when someone joins a faction and starts grinding loyalty and at 1000 points they are eligible join the "321 Faction Militia" unit. As a member of that unit they have access to a unique skin, colors, or decals. Once they get to 2000 points they are eligible to "421 Better than a militia" unit with similar benefits. This goes on until they reach the top "You probably read about this unit a book" unit.

In the case of Wolfs Dragoons, it appears that merc unit needs to grind max faction for all factions to unlock the unique Dragoons items. It might even possible to unlock faction specific merc unit items while grinding loyalty, like the Grey Death Legion for House Steiner. At no point do you have join the merc unit, you just get the ability to wear their colors as a show of how loyal you are to that faction.

Hrmm... like associating with the Wolfs dragoons?

I dont know. Why as a merc unit would you want their insignias? Isnt the whole point of having your own merc unit... having your "own" merc unit?

That would also go against what the Devs said that no merc unit would be allowed to impersonate one of the famous merc units.

Also from the presentation it sounded like this was a reward for faction players since the merc units allready got a ton of benefits that the house units wont have... like owning your own planet and actually be a player run organisation with its own assets.

Also during the presentation bryan said you would be able to "join" Wolfs dragoons... not only use their camos and unit names.

I think what youre reffering to is more akin to what MW4 did? Like choosing one of the more famous merc units as your "parent unit" is that it?

Even then it makes not much sense because you would have to become a well established mercanary outfit with a long standing history with one of the factions to be able to do that... at wich point it makes no sense to try to put yourselfe under the name of another unit.

No... still makes no sense to me so i stand by my point that the Dragoons will be for faction players only.

[Wintersdark]

Riptor, on 07 October 2013 - 03:06 PM, said:

No... still makes no sense to me so i stand by my point that the Dragoons will be for faction players only.

This, completely.

From a game design viewpoint, it's a cookie for those gamers who don't get the added content that Merc players get. Faction play has a lot less depth than Merc play - at least, so it looks thus far. It also doesn't have the same organizational requirements either - it's basically there for players who cannot or do not wish to devote the time and effort to Merc play, but still want to be a part of the overall battle for the inner sphere. It makes a lot of sense that such things - particularly being a member of these house units and using their colors/tags/etc - will be restricted to Faction players.

Also, with regards to my previous post - I apologize completely. I didn't read carefully enough (skimming ftl), and made a complete *** of myself. My bad.

*puts on Derpy hat*

[Riptor]

Quote

[color=#959595]Also, with regards to my previous post - I apologize completely. I didn't read carefully enough (skimming ftl), and made a complete *** of myself. My bad.[/color]

Welp... thats a rare thing on these forums.

Makes me kinda feel bad that i called you out like that but alot of people only see what they want to see and sure as hell dont apologize for it.

Well no grief here man.

[Zerstorer Stallin]

this would be interesting news, except for the fact PGI has yet to deliver on any of their promised features yet.... Just saying.

[Sandpit]

Heffay, on 07 October 2013 - 07:45 AM, said:

Mercenary loyalty doesn't exist. The hate a House may have for a Merc unit will last only until the next time they need to hire them for a contract.

Maybe we shouldn't call it loyalty. Maybe it should be called reputation. You have a reputation as a merc unit for getting things done. Sure, you may have killed off half of the Steiner royal family, but when the other half needs you to raid a Kurita outpost...well, that's just business, eh? And you've proven yourself to be *very* effective in the past, so here, have some mechs at a discount to help make your job a little easier.

I like the analogy. Reputation is actually used in tabletop for mercs. The better your rep with certain factions as a merc the more access you have to their "stuff" so instead of a loyalty based system for merc you gain reputation points for completing contracts. You could also work this into the bounty system. I think you've got a good idea here that makes more sense than a "loyalty" system for mercs.