187 replies to this topic

[Lightfoot]

Mcchuggernaut, on 27 September 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

I have almost never seen anyone using them. What's wrong with them? Do they need some kind of buff? What are their advantages/disadvantages over other ballistic weapons? It seems to me that since they are so close range specialized that they should either do more damage per projectile (thereby making up for the short range and spread by being very deadly up close) or fire faster than the other longer ranged heavy hitters like the AC20. Do I just not know what I'm talking about or am I right?

Edit: Do they crit internals more often like machine guns?

Yes they are crit-seekers once you strip the armor. So lasers or an AC10 mixed with an LBX does good service especially to those pesky assaults that have strong internal structures. An LBX can nullify that with some luck and they take down Lights pretty well too.

[xX_Nero_Xx]

you use a lbx to squash light mechs circleing you (not in water cause will not work) and srms and aime for the other mechs head and splat it

[Tiamat of the Sea]

I use an LB 10-X for a number of reasons.

1) The Longbow autocannon are (and there will be other sizes of LB-X) all lighter, smaller (in crit slots), cooler, and possessed of slightly more range than their standard bretheren.

2) There are situations in which you can't get pinpoint aim, such as in a brawl with fast-moving 'mechs (including lights) or when you're moving fast yourself and can't afford to stop. In these situations, an LB-X blast will often hit things that a single shell would completely miss, and 3-4 damage is vastly superior to no damage. (I expect this to mostly not apply for the LB 5-X and not at all for the 2-X, both of which are going to -have- to have slug ammo alternatives to be worth using. The LB 20-X, however, is bound to be oodles of useful.)

3) Shotgun graphics are kinda cool.

4) At very close ranges, the shot pretty much all still hit the same location anyways, unless you're looking at a light 'mech.

5) I like pressing my fire button and hearing that distinctive 'SPAP' sound. Somehow it's more audibly satisfying than the loud 'THUP' of standard autocannon, and it's a hell of a lot easier on the ears too.

In standard Battletech, the tabletop game, Longbow and Ultra autocannon are straight up different-path upgrades of standard autocannon, partly because in tabletop only the AC/10 and AC/20 are really worthwhile, and the AC/20 has prohibitively little ammo (5/ton?). In this game, they went to a lot of trouble to make the standard ballistic cannon viable so that the Longbow and Ultra upgrades are instead Longbow and Ultra alternatives, and given what I've seen while I'm playing, they've pretty much succeeded.

Generally, when I see someone using a Longbow, it's because they feel it's a better weapon for the way they're playing. Since the shift of Ultra AC/5s to the same base reload rate as a standard AC/5, I see Ultras in mostly the same conditions (when they fit what the player is doing better- in their case, burst fire). So, it's entirely possible that for you, the Longbow is a terrible weapon. Nothing wrong with that- don't use it if you can't get the hang of it or it doesn't fit with the way you play.

[RandomLurker]

LBX = Lightweight Ballistics (think Ballistix and it makes sense). Longbow is a 80 ton Davion LRM boat.

[FireSlade]

Elli Gujar, on 28 September 2013 - 03:21 PM, said:

2) There are situations in which you can't get pinpoint aim, such as in a brawl with fast-moving 'mechs (including lights) or when you're moving fast yourself and can't afford to stop. In these situations, an LB-X blast will often hit things that a single shell would completely miss, and 3-4 damage is vastly superior to no damage. (I expect this to mostly not apply for the LB 5-X and not at all for the 2-X, both of which are going to -have- to have slug ammo alternatives to be worth using. The LB 20-X, however, is bound to be oodles of useful.)

If PGI has half a brain they will run all the LBX cannons as a 10 shot cluster round with the damage per pellet being changed. An example would be that each pellet for the LB2-X would deal 0.2 damage, for the LB5-X(0.5 damage/pellet), and for the LB20-X(2 damage/pellet). If they ran slugs people would never use the AC equivalent and keeping the damage the same but changing the pellets would effect the balance some.

[Huntsman]

You use an LBX10 on any mech that can confidently, though extreme speed, or the use of cover, ensure initial contact with the enemy occurs at ranges of 200 meters or less.

As you might imagine, in the current state of the game, there aren't many situations where choosing the LBX wouldn't turn into a big liability since we don't even know what map we're dropping onto. The weapon itself is actually fine, but I do feel that other changes need to be made to the rest of the game so that the LBX can be given the chance to shine.

[Son of the Flood]

Captain Stiffy, on 27 September 2013 - 07:18 PM, said:

Tonnage and critical space is different between the two as well as the convergence mechanics.

I can put all 10 pellets on a mech all day and have problems with the AC/10 because of the projectile speed and weird convergence.

Do I need to start posting screenshots of 120 score matches in my Muro/DDC again?

There isn't ANYTHING wrong with the LB10 right now. Absolutely nothing.

In fact here's a match I just finished 2 minutes ago in my 3x LB10x muro.



Granted that was a somewhat lucky one to get 7 kills but really that's all good positioning choices. The damage numbers speak for the capability of the weapon.

I can personally vouch that three of these ba$tards (LB-10X's) are painful, I believe I was 1 of the Capt.'s 7 kills in this match!

[Stoicblitzer]

Mcchuggernaut, on 27 September 2013 - 01:03 PM, said:

why use an lbx10?

cuz winning is overrated. charlie sheen is wrong.

Edited by Stoicblitzer, 28 September 2013 - 10:14 PM.

[VirtualSmitty]

RandomLurker, on 28 September 2013 - 03:43 PM, said:

LBX = Lightweight Ballistics (think Ballistix and it makes sense). Longbow is a 80 ton Davion LRM boat.

I always thought it was short for Lubalin balistics, after the company that invented it in the fluff.

On topic, the lb10 is useful in pairs I find. Still rather have a standard AC10 though.

Edited by Precentor Martial Jarcaddy, 29 September 2013 - 04:27 AM.

[aakek]

I always perform better in Jagers with dual LBX compared to times I have run other AC's even against other Jagers. It may not always be pinpoint fire but it is a great weapon imo.

[MasterErrant]

they are smaller, lighter and lower heat than ac 10. and good for finishing ragged mechs. as a secondary wepon they are great. but if it comes to a primary wepon I'd use AC10

LLs and or PPcs with LBX is good.

I run my DDC with 2xERLL and 2xLB!)X and it's a killer.

[Kargen]

In pairs they are great - my favorite loadout for my K2.

However I've been testing having one as a primary weapon for my Hunchback. So far I find the AC10/AC20 or even SRMs much better options. That said, the LBX10 + 3 x M Pulse laser build (STD 250 engine) has been a very effective brawler.

I have concluded that as has been mentioned in posts above: brutal in pairs, better options available as a single weapon.

[Roland]

Kargen, on 30 September 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

In pairs they are great - my favorite loadout for my K2.

However I've been testing having one as a primary weapon for my Hunchback. So far I find the AC10/AC20 or even SRMs much better options. That said, the LBX10 + 3 x M Pulse laser build (STD 250 engine) has been a very effective brawler.

I have concluded that as has been mentioned in posts above: brutal in pairs, better options available as a single weapon.

If there are better options for a single weapon, then why wouldn't those other options be better in pairs as well?
The only reason would generally be if you lacked the slots.

[Mcgral18]

I've found 3 LB10Xs to be more effective than 3 AC10s, but probably because my aim is rather poor. It's very nice for taking lights out, and will outperform most things other than an AC40 in a brawl. Only downside is a squishy XL engine.

For the same tonnage as 3 AC10s, you can also get 3 LB10Xs and 3 MLs. If I could aim better, perhaps the AC10s would have better performance.

[Kargen]

Roland, on 30 September 2013 - 05:10 AM, said:

If there are better options for a single weapon, then why wouldn't those other options be better in pairs as well?
The only reason would generally be if you lacked the slots.

Other advantages (heat/weight/slots) aside, I can't really quantify why....its a gut feeling after playing a number of games. Coudl just be my playstyle or (lack of) aim.

[Voivode]

LB-X is good, you just have to realize that at range it is worthless. Sure it says it can shoot over 500meters, but at that range the spread will make the shot worthless. The LB-X is best used on a close range brawling build. It's lighter than the Ac10, albeit by only a ton, and it does a very nice job causing critical hits. It is able to strip armor if you are close (within 100meters) but is definitely best paired with other close range weapons like pulse lasers and srms.

Build that I run with my Atlas DDC that wrecks face pretty well:
http://mwo.smurfy-ne...9b52480fa6a14f5

Edited by Voivode, 30 September 2013 - 09:22 AM.

[Kurshuk]

Reasons to use mech-sized shotgun.

1. This is my boomstick. Remember to shop smart. Shop S-Mart.
2. Suppression nearing LRMs if you have 2+ LBX10s. Chain fire around half-sec spread and you can keep someone in near continuous pelting. Effective to 800 or so, 1000+ seems to be pretty wasteful, but I've heard from my targets that it looks like artillery because the shells end up hitting in front around and behind when the terrain isn't level where the target is. Especially fun/useful in Atlai.

[Cycleboy]

I've been toying with dual LB10s on my K2 Cat... paired with 2 ER LLs in the arms. I PUG all the time, and it works most of the time. I can play laser sniper for a while, hitting here and there, supporting mid-range brawlers. As long as a light pack doesn't find me too quick, I can rush in to help mop up or take down something charging me if it has been softened up. If I'm first to the target... I'm dead, dead, DEAD!

[Selfish]

On average, a single LB10 will deal ~13 damage against internals (~20.2 crit damage per salvo; ~5.212 DPS). The weapon can actually hold its own now, being a nice mix of utility and damage. Brawling oriented mechs, like the D-DC, now have more options.

I'd say consider it when you want to brawl, and have more weight/hardpoints to replace a single AC/20. Or if you're in the brawling mid range and don't want to/can't use a 20.

I'd say don't consider it if you're expecting/building to engage at range or hunt lights. Single slug projectiles are much better for that.

Edited by Selfish, 30 September 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[Thejuggla]

Think its spread is fine, just needs more damage. Somewhere around gauss(15 damage) would be good I think. Would be a decent softener at range and a good brawling weapon closer up.