210 replies to this topic

[TheSteelRhino]

Ok.

Base capping is part of the mechanic. We all get it. But we are working with either random/players and groups thrown together (unless running 12 mech drop).
What does this mean?

I for 1 will defend the cap. But i have died alone many times doing it and that gets old too right? f I drop with a 4 man it is obviously somewhat better. But the frustration here, becomes that if I just want to relax and just play a few laid back drops (ie not 12 mech) then you cannot trust that there are other quick mechs that can respond to necessarily BE in drop or respond even if they are present.

I also see other ppl saying that u should be in a position to defend your cap. So basically both teams should have 1 or 2 lances that stand around while the lights go play? Come on...its not like we are able to plan a loadout here for the whole force. But yes the for e should at least HOPE to be able to respond.

The biggest issue I see is that often the mechs that are able to respond, do not because THEY want to cap or dont want to leave their circle of death. Maybe they just arent team players or have their own agenda. (And this can apply to ANY weight class)

The problem isnt so much that a cap exists but a fundamental lack of team mentality in random/4 man drops.

A new game mode will help this of course b/c for whatever reason some %}%~€| ppl think capping is fun. In the end, they have found a way to grief ppl within the letter of the rules.

The good news is that PGI is working to address this. Hopefully the new game modes will be out soon.
Sooner rather than later I hope.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Gladewolf, on 12 November 2013 - 09:21 AM, said:

Edit: Content

Nice, change my quote and still miss the whole point. No one is saying don't scout, do you actually read the posts or just randomly troll through?

[Wolf Clearwater]

Niko Snow, on 13 November 2013 - 10:45 AM, said:

Just a quick reminder:
Capping the enemy base is a game mechanic and not considered a form of griefing.
Players who dislike this game mode will have their concerns addressed with upcoming game modes.

In the meantime: Killing a friendly team-mate intentionally for taking advantage of capturing mechanics is considered a form of griefing and repeated abuse of TeamKilling will result in a warning or sanction on your account. Thanks for your understanding.

Nobody is arguing that capping is not legitamate. So you will probably censor me again for this. But I disagree with you, about the griefing. Someone who rushes straight for the cap is griefing just as bad as those who used to:
TK before PGI applied the negative kill count for killing your own teammates
Drop into a match and then intentionally DisCon to farm xp/cbills
In addition, is behaving just as poorly as you would consider me for an intentional TK.

I am glad to hear that there will be additional game modes in the future, any expansion of play is a good thing. In addition, despite the censoring of my post, it is nice to know that PGI actually has someone who reads the forums and responds. In the meantime it would appear that some people have found a legitimate way to grief and there is no (current) intention to change it. Perhaps just make the base cap not able to start the countdown for the first 2-3 minutes of game play would be a simple way to solve the issue. I can't say about others, but I don't want to see an end to capping entirely in assault mode. What I want is a change so a 4 man premade of lights does not just run straight around the gameplay and for a quick cap win. Yes that happens, yes it happens frequently. No, it does not happen every match, but just from the amount of posts and commentary on this forum, I think that it demonstrates a legitamate concern of your players.

Edited by Wolf87535, 15 November 2013 - 06:48 AM.

[Fut]

Rhinehardt Ritter, on 13 November 2013 - 11:32 AM, said:

The problem isnt so much that a cap exists but a fundamental lack of team mentality in random/4 man drops.

Maybe the pre-game area, you know the one that so many complained about with the "Ready" button, could be used to discuss some sort of Base Defense tactic with the random pug members of your team?

Whoa, what a crazy idea!

"Hey guys, if we start to get capped *insert players* should be the ones to go back initially. Call for back-up if needed."

Edited by Fut, 15 November 2013 - 07:51 AM.

[Helsbane]

Wolf87535, on 15 November 2013 - 06:47 AM, said:

Nobody is arguing that capping is not legitamate. So you will probably censor me again for this. But I disagree with you, about the griefing. Someone who rushes straight for the cap is griefing just as bad as those who used to:
TK before PGI applied the negative kill count for killing your own teammates
Drop into a match and then intentionally DisCon to farm xp/cbills
In addition, is behaving just as poorly as you would consider me for an intentional TK.

I am glad to hear that there will be additional game modes in the future, any expansion of play is a good thing. In addition, despite the censoring of my post, it is nice to know that PGI actually has someone who reads the forums and responds. In the meantime it would appear that some people have found a legitimate way to grief and there is no (current) intention to change it. Perhaps just make the base cap not able to start the countdown for the first 2-3 minutes of game play would be a simple way to solve the issue. I can't say about others, but I don't want to see an end to capping entirely in assault mode. What I want is a change so a 4 man premade of lights does not just run straight around the gameplay and for a quick cap win. Yes that happens, yes it happens frequently. No, it does not happen every match, but just from the amount of posts and commentary on this forum, I think that it demonstrates a legitamate concern of your players.

Going for base cap is a perfectly legit strategy that has a multitude of counters. To consider it griefing shows that you have a poor grasp of the counter strategies and the Assault game mode in general.

The "ah hates cappin" crowd continually whines that they don't get to fight anything due to base caps, but when Betty starts going off that base is being capped, they keep fighting in the middle. Fighting in the middle stops caps how again? I'd be willing to wager you're the same players that fought on the road in Arathi Basin...

[Wolf Clearwater]

Helsbane, on 15 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Going for base cap is a perfectly legit strategy that has a multitude of counters.  To consider it griefing shows that you have a poor grasp of the counter strategies and the Assault game mode in general.

The "ah hates cappin" crowd continually whines that they don't get to fight anything due to base caps, but when Betty starts going off that base is being capped, they keep fighting in the middle.  Fighting in the middle stops caps how again?  I'd be willing to wager you're the same players that fought on the road in Arathi Basin...

Somehow you manage to miss the point, like Gladewolf, I will ask you- do you read the topic, or just troll? I am not complaining about capping as a tactic, nor have I said I hate capping. What I am talking about base rushing. Not the same thing, do you see that? What this game does need is better way to reward light and medium mech players for information warfare, tactics should have a place - after all without them what is the point? Just one giant murder ball slugging it out in an open field?  But running straight for the cap, to end the game as soon as possible is cheating the other players - on both teams, out of a reason to play.  It is the ultimate demonstration of selfishness that falls within the game rules. How can that not be griefing? HOW you win is as important as winning, or is there a failure to grasp the concept of ethics?  If everything goes, then TK is as legitimate a strategy for improving your KDR as shooting the enemy - after all, what you seem to be advocating is that the ends justify the means.
Again, try to actually read carefully, I am not saying that capping has no place - I am saying that there is a problem of people running straight for the cap, only to cap.  If you only want to cap, there is a great mode for that - it is called Conquest, you should try it sometime.

Edited by Wolf87535, 15 November 2013 - 06:10 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Helsbane, on 15 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

The "ah hates cappin" crowd continually whines that they don't get to fight anything due to base caps, but when Betty starts going off that base is being capped, they keep fighting in the middle. Fighting in the middle stops caps how again?

I liked your post for this point, it is valid, and one I am not arguing against.

[Commissar Aku]

Helsbane, on 15 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Going for base cap is a perfectly legit strategy that has a multitude of counters. To consider it griefing shows that you have a poor grasp of the counter strategies and the Assault game mode in general.

The "ah hates cappin" crowd continually whines that they don't get to fight anything due to base caps, but when Betty starts going off that base is being capped, they keep fighting in the middle. Fighting in the middle stops caps how again? I'd be willing to wager you're the same players that fought on the road in Arathi Basin...

Clearly you haven't been cap rushed by 4 boars heads, no matter what you do unless your entire team stayed to defend and unless you are in a 12 man drop that will never happen you can do nothing. Or say on tera therma it is big enough a 4 man in lights or really anything if they rush the map is to big for you to get back in time for it. Apparently if you like to try and play on your own with out 11 other people on ts with you, you are expected to just lose if someone rushes cap. I hate to say it but if i only played in 12 man groups I would rarely get to play.

[XphR]

XPH Aku, on 15 November 2013 - 06:27 PM, said:

Clearly you haven't been cap rushed by 4 boars heads,

Bwaa aah ha ah ha ah ha ha ha haaa ahahhHHAHahhahah ahaha ahahahah.. OMG, thanks, I needed that.

[mouser42]

When I play a light I like to fight but when I'm in a drop and one or two of team have dc even before the match starts better bereave I'll do everything to even the odds capping included. If i can get 2 or more of the enemy to come after me, ether by ******* them off or starting a cap great. It helps my team have a fair fight in numbers and it they are smart focus fire to give us the advantage in a fight that stared out lopsided. And if this tactic makes the enemy mad good anger people tend to make dumb mistakes. Won a 9 to 12 river city match that way, most of the other team was so target fixated on my spider for starting a base cap, my team did a great job with focus fire played real smart and was able to pull them like mobs 1by1 nice win. And if no one comes after me and my team wins a losing fight by cap that's the enemy's team problem. Have a good fight but play smart.

Edited by mouser42, 18 November 2013 - 04:41 PM.

[-Muta-]

People come on get serious.

Whatever your thoughts are about capping will not change a thing...

People who caps will not stop doing it just because you think it should not be that way.

This topic has been around for more time than most of you have played this game so just get over it.

Edited by miSs, 18 November 2013 - 03:06 PM.

[Gladewolf]

Wolf87535, on 15 November 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Somehow you manage to miss the point, like Gladewolf, I will ask you- do you read the topic, or just troll? I am not complaining about capping as a tactic, nor have I said I hate capping. What I am talking about base rushing. Not the same thing, do you see that? What this game does need is better way to reward light and medium mech players for information warfare, tactics should have a place - after all without them what is the point? Just one giant murder ball slugging it out in an open field? But running straight for the cap, to end the game as soon as possible is cheating the other players - on both teams, out of a reason to play. It is the ultimate demonstration of selfishness that falls within the game rules. How can that not be griefing? HOW you win is as important as winning, or is there a failure to grasp the concept of ethics? If everything goes, then TK is as legitimate a strategy for improving your KDR as shooting the enemy - after all, what you seem to be advocating is that the ends justify the means.
Again, try to actually read carefully, I am not saying that capping has no place - I am saying that there is a problem of people running straight for the cap, only to cap. If you only want to cap, there is a great mode for that - it is called Conquest, you should try it sometime.

I am not just trolling you, the problem is with my perception of your thought process on the matter, the point of using the cap as a tactic, is that you COULD outright win the match....so your opponent has to respond.......but what if they don't? THIS is how that "evil capper" managed to cap the base out in the first place. There is no such thing as a capper that should be aloud to live. whether they just plan to tap it, or stay a while, it's all the same from a defensive stand point. IF three mechs do run to the enemy cap and no one responds to the cap action .....and they just leave the base because they don't want to win that way...well their bluff has been called and they have been found wanting....now they are just 3 out of position mechs in what is probably a losing proposition...the point of using the cap to FORCE a response is exactly that...it's not a suggestion, it's a gun to the heads of your enemies that DOES NOT offer a choice in the matter. Return to your cap and defend it, or lose. And as previously stated...far too many people aren't even bothering to look to see where there opponents are going...these same people also claim they'd like to fight...I find that to be a pretty extreme paradox........and the over-all cause of posts like these...I've just never seen one before with such damning evidence of exactly the behavior i'm referring to attached as if it's supposed to be ok.

[WarHippy]

Wolf87535, on 15 November 2013 - 06:08 PM, said:

Somehow you manage to miss the point, like Gladewolf, I will ask you- do you read the topic, or just troll? I am not complaining about capping as a tactic, nor have I said I hate capping. What I am talking about base rushing. Not the same thing, do you see that? What this game does need is better way to reward light and medium mech players for information warfare, tactics should have a place - after all without them what is the point? Just one giant murder ball slugging it out in an open field? But running straight for the cap, to end the game as soon as possible is cheating the other players - on both teams, out of a reason to play. It is the ultimate demonstration of selfishness that falls within the game rules. How can that not be griefing? HOW you win is as important as winning, or is there a failure to grasp the concept of ethics? If everything goes, then TK is as legitimate a strategy for improving your KDR as shooting the enemy - after all, what you seem to be advocating is that the ends justify the means.
Again, try to actually read carefully, I am not saying that capping has no place - I am saying that there is a problem of people running straight for the cap, only to cap. If you only want to cap, there is a great mode for that - it is called Conquest, you should try it sometime.

If someone cap rushes it is because the other team failed one of the objectives of the map, and that is to defend their base. It is not grieving, and it is not a problem of ethics accept in the minds of people who impose their own special set of rules that they made up to everyone else. Stop being sore losers and complaining about someone beating you using a perfectly acceptable tactic. If you get capped in the first 3 min or later it means you failed to prepare and react accordingly. If you are on the winning team and complain at least point the finger at the right people. Hint: The right people to point the finger at are the ones that allowed the cap to happen, and not the people who did the capping.

[Helsbane]

If you fail to respond to my cap rush, you'll lose. Simple as that.

I'm not trolling any of you. If you'll stop and think for a moment, you'll realize that I'm actually trying to help you. Until you figure out how, your base is mine.

[Silent Hunter]

I was one of those people who got a little bit riled about the speed at which the base got capped. I believe the argument at that time went: 'Base capping feels too much like a rush game now where a step into too many games that are over in less than 3 minutes. I'd rather have a fight.', 'No they're not. Learn to defend.', 'Tried that...', 'Stop whining...', 'Oh look PGI just slowed the rate at which people cap...'

What it comes down to now is that there are a LOT of new players out there who haven't been around since closed beta and so don't have the knowledge that many other players have. Learn to communicate with them and explain what you know, or even show them how a scout should work. Many games now start with a battle of the light mechs where the ones that win will usually take down the enemy due to superior intel.

I'm not saying that people don't have a point here at all. What I'm saying is that we all started out as new players at some point and we need to remember that we now have the responsibility to help our team mates get the victory. Support them and help them to learn.

[Farix]

Gladewolf, on 18 November 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am not just trolling you, the problem is with my perception of your thought process on the matter, the point of using the cap as a tactic, is that you COULD outright win the match....so your opponent has to respond.......but what if they don't? THIS is how that "evil capper" managed to cap the base out in the first place. There is no such thing as a capper that should be aloud to live. whether they just plan to tap it, or stay a while, it's all the same from a defensive stand point. IF three mechs do run to the enemy cap and no one responds to the cap action .....and they just leave the base because they don't want to win that way...well their bluff has been called and they have been found wanting....now they are just 3 out of position mechs in what is probably a losing proposition...the point of using the cap to FORCE a response is exactly that...it's not a suggestion, it's a gun to the heads of your enemies that DOES NOT offer a choice in the matter. Return to your cap and defend it, or lose. And as previously stated...far too many people aren't even bothering to look to see where there opponents are going...these same people also claim they'd like to fight...I find that to be a pretty extreme paradox........and the over-all cause of posts like these...I've just never seen one before with such damning evidence of exactly the behavior i'm referring to attached as if it's supposed to be ok.

QFT

And this is the root cause of the debate. The majority of teams use capping as a bluff that other people have come expect it to be one. That is why when they see a group of mechs flanking them towards their base, they don't intercept. Nor do they RTB when the cap warning is announced. They are expecting it to be a bluff only to find out in those rare occasions that it is not.

Morel of the story, if you are not capturing a base with the intention of completing the capture, then you probably shouldn't be using that tactic in the first place. Because the only reason that tactic even works is because there is a real threat of the base being captured. Your half-*** "touch base" only dilutes the power of that tactic.

[New Day]

Fut, on 15 November 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Maybe the pre-game area, you know the one that so many complained about with the "Ready" button, could be used to discuss some sort of Base Defense tactic with the random pug members of your team?

Whoa, what a crazy idea!

"Hey guys, if we start to get capped *insert players* should be the ones to go back initially. Call for back-up if needed."

You can't be that naive. You're just being sarcastic, right?

Edited by NamesAreStupid, 18 November 2013 - 02:58 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

Gladewolf, on 18 November 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am not just trolling you, the problem is with my perception of your thought process on the matter, the point of using the cap as a tactic, is that you COULD outright win the match....so your opponent has to respond.......but what if they don't? THIS is how that "evil capper" managed to cap the base out in the first place. There is no such thing as a capper that should be aloud to live. whether they just plan to tap it, or stay a while, it's all the same from a defensive stand point. IF three mechs do run to the enemy cap and no one responds to the cap action .....and they just leave the base because they don't want to win that way...well their bluff has been called and they have been found wanting....now they are just 3 out of position mechs in what is probably a losing proposition...the point of using the cap to FORCE a response is exactly that...it's not a suggestion, it's a gun to the heads of your enemies that DOES NOT offer a choice in the matter. Return to your cap and defend it, or lose. And as previously stated...far too many people aren't even bothering to look to see where there opponents are going...these same people also claim they'd like to fight...I find that to be a pretty extreme paradox........and the over-all cause of posts like these...I've just never seen one before with such damning evidence of exactly the behavior i'm referring to attached as if it's supposed to be ok.

I guess this is the point where we are diverging, (and thanks for the expansion of your opinion on this, I think I understand where you are coming from now) is simple truly.
It appears that for you, you see a match as a win or lose prospective. I do not.

The only thing that matters for me in the match is: cbills and XP. Win/loss literally means nothing. Why? Because they have no in game effect. The XP and cbill bonus for a kill assist outweighs anything you get if your team wins by cap. Yeah, I like winning, who doesn't? But in the end, for me, it is secondary to XP on my mech and cbills to play with them. Therefore in my perspective, cap rushing is grieving, and nothing less. It is a deliberate attempt to cheat 23 other people of the enjoyment and rewards of the match. I don't think cappers are evil, I don't believe that capping has no place in assault. I do think running straight for the cap to deliberately end the match as soon as possible is grieving . Hope that makes my point clear. I do actually agree with you that in no circumstance should a capper be allowed to cap your base, but if you can't break free of the battle to return (which sometimes happens)....so what? The match is lost, which in the end has no real in game meaning. Now when CW is implemented and win/loss can have an effect on the game, that will change everything.

edit: spelling

Edited by Wolf87535, 18 November 2013 - 03:52 PM.

[Wolf Clearwater]

NamesAreStupid, on 18 November 2013 - 02:58 PM, said:

You can't be that naive. You're just being sarcastic, right?

Many matches I have been in, we do exactly what Fut suggested. Of course once the shooting starts, no one remembers those conversations anyway. I believe that some players get "Kill Fever" just like some hunters get "Buck Fever", and completely forget what they are supposed to be doing.

[Commissar Aku]

Gladewolf, on 18 November 2013 - 11:05 AM, said:

I am not just trolling you, the problem is with my perception of your thought process on the matter, the point of using the cap as a tactic, is that you COULD outright win the match....so your opponent has to respond.......but what if they don't? THIS is how that "evil capper" managed to cap the base out in the first place. There is no such thing as a capper that should be aloud to live. whether they just plan to tap it, or stay a while, it's all the same from a defensive stand point. IF three mechs do run to the enemy cap and no one responds to the cap action .....and they just leave the base because they don't want to win that way...well their bluff has been called and they have been found wanting....now they are just 3 out of position mechs in what is probably a losing proposition...the point of using the cap to FORCE a response is exactly that...it's not a suggestion, it's a gun to the heads of your enemies that DOES NOT offer a choice in the matter. Return to your cap and defend it, or lose. And as previously stated...far too many people aren't even bothering to look to see where there opponents are going...these same people also claim they'd like to fight...I find that to be a pretty extreme paradox........and the over-all cause of posts like these...I've just never seen one before with such damning evidence of exactly the behavior i'm referring to attached as if it's supposed to be ok.

Again, you apparently have never been cap rushed by board heads and lost in under 3 min to cap accelerator and the in ability to kill them fast enough to win. Capping to troll is a {Richard Cameron} move, it trolls everyone including your own team. The difference between making 150,000 c-bills for a loss and 50,000 c-bills and winning makes capping in the first 5 minutes trolling no matter how you look at it.