10301 replies to this topic

[Soul Tribunal]

Odd question, but what is the point of FF when Endo Steel frees up more tonnage?
Unless I am missing something in the mechanics of it.

-ST

[TercieI]

Soul Tribunal, on 06 October 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

Odd question, but what is the point of FF when Endo Steel frees up more tonnage?
Unless I am missing something in the mechanics of it.

-ST

Well, sometimes you can use both. But always* use Endo-Steel first.

*There is one extreme edge case where you can justify FF over ES just to save some c-bills.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Soul Tribunal, on 06 October 2014 - 05:24 PM, said:

Odd question, but what is the point of FF when Endo Steel frees up more tonnage?
Unless I am missing something in the mechanics of it.

-ST

In this game - none

If you can have both - it is that much more space saved, but otherwise FF is of no use compared to Endo


Having said that - in campaign play (Usually in table top) FF is cheaper to repair, and thus more likely to be used

[Unnatural Growth]

I only use both FF and ES on my Jenners and Cicadas, but not on my Locust or Spiders. It really just allows me about ~ a half ton more armor really, if I recall correctly. I'm already trying to put 10 pounds of "stuff" in a 5 pound sack on those builds, so it helps.

I do use ES on most of my medium and heavy chassis as well, and about half my assaults. ES is a trade off depending on if you need more slots or more tonnage. Some builds you don't want to give up those 14 slots though. I use smurphy to figure out a few different builds before I buy either ES or FF, to see if it's worth it.

[Reno Blade]

In case of Clan mechs, FF gives you 20% more armor instead of 12% for IS mechs while both FF and Endo only "cost" you 7 crit slots for Clans instead of 14 for IS mechs.
So in theory, the Clan FF is much closer to the weight saving of Endo than the IS FF armor.

[Tim East]

But you don't get the option to choose to FF or ES clan mechs anyway iirc...

[Reno Blade]

Tim East, on 07 October 2014 - 10:15 AM, said:

But you don't get the option to choose to FF or ES clan mechs anyway iirc...

No, but at least you don't need to discard every mech that uses FF but no Endo compared to Omnimechs that use Endo without FF, because they are very close to each other in regards to saved tonnage (compared to IS mech who nearly always choose Endo over FF).

[Tim East]

Ah yeah, I see where you're coming from. I was just saying that for clan mechs it's something you consider prior to purchase since you can't change it after the fact even at a C-bill cost.

[Tylerchu]

Terciel1976, on 06 October 2014 - 05:25 PM, said:

*There is one extreme edge case where you can justify FF over ES just to save some c-bills.

What is that extreme case?

[TercieI]

Tylerchu, on 07 October 2014 - 03:31 PM, said:

What is that extreme case?

Dang, I knew somebody was going to ask that...I've been trying to remember since I posted that.

Basically, if you have all the engine, armor and guns you can fit and you only have space for one of the two, FF is cheaper. I swear I saw a build once where it actually made reasonable sense, but I can't recall the details...I just really hate to say "never."

[luxebo]

This patch has been great with UI updates and new interface stuff, plus new trials to play around with, but what is the new rewards? Last I saw I melted (suicided) in my Dire Wolf trial and it gave me 52 XP for that...

Edit: from what I can see, team damage apparently does take your C-bills away? (I think) and locking targets not spotting targets (unless they just changed the wording) has been also here giving C-bills etc. And I don't know if it's a bug but they put GXP as MXP in the screen, confusing me massively earlier but it's just MXP.

Edited by luxebo, 07 October 2014 - 08:47 PM.

[Reno Blade]

luxebo, on 07 October 2014 - 05:37 PM, said:

This patch has been great with UI updates and new interface stuff, plus new trials to play around with, but what is the new rewards? Last I saw I melted (suicided) in my Dire Wolf trial and it gave me 52 XP for that...

Edit: from what I can see, team damage apparently does take your C-bills away? (I think) and locking targets not spotting targets (unless they just changed the wording) has been also here giving C-bills etc. And I don't know if it's a bug but they put GXP as MXP in the screen, confusing me massively earlier but it's just MXP.

The new reward "System" is now a scrolling area close above the minimap that instantly shows what CBill/XP reward you get.
I think the new Rewards themselves will come in a later patch (see wording of the patchnote).
If this is indeed showing you minus from team damage, thats a great way to teach/show players that they just did hurt their team.

Oh and I love that you can now access your sold mechs in the skill menu !

[Redshift2k5]

Terciel1976, on 07 October 2014 - 03:54 PM, said:

Dang, I knew somebody was going to ask that...I've been trying to remember since I posted that.

Basically, if you have all the engine, armor and guns you can fit and you only have space for one of the two, FF is cheaper. I swear I saw a build once where it actually made reasonable sense, but I can't recall the details...I just really hate to say "never."

Well, it's clearly cheaper, so.. I guess if you plan to sell/discard the mech once unlocking the skill tree then you can save a little in the long term.

[luxebo]

Reno Blade, on 07 October 2014 - 09:58 PM, said:

The new reward "System" is now a scrolling area close above the minimap that instantly shows what CBill/XP reward you get.
I think the new Rewards themselves will come in a later patch (see wording of the patchnote).
If this is indeed showing you minus from team damage, thats a great way to teach/show players that they just did hurt their team.

Oh and I love that you can now access your sold mechs in the skill menu !

Gotcha, though that's really weird why they would give anything for suiciding. Maybe they placed a way to see whether it was a proper suicide otherwise it would be abused?

Yeah I realized that it was just placeholder text atm and not yet refined.

This new patch has been all around good, a full roster of Clan trials (4), refined bugs and stuff like that, better UI status updates (store and the mech xp lab), and last time's patch with it's Mining Collective has also been good.

Edit by proper suicide I mean as in a combat suicide taking your own life rather than getting killed by someone, not run off the edge suicide or override on Terra suicide.

Edited by luxebo, 08 October 2014 - 04:33 PM.

[BSK]

Am I the only one who experiences this, but apparently in my last 8 matches ALL assaults in each team were in the same lance? Same goes for the heavies.

[Redshift2k5]

BSK, on 10 October 2014 - 02:20 AM, said:

Am I the only one who experiences this, but apparently in my last 8 matches ALL assaults in each team were in the same lance? Same goes for the heavies.

• Lances can be modified by the team leader during the match to move players from lance to lance
  
• Odd-numbered or last-added premades can/must be split up
  
• you absolutely cannot form a group with more than 3 of any weight class. If there are 4 assaults on the same team, they cannot all be from the same premade launch group, but they can be from multiple groups if the matchmaker has "relaxed" the restrictions.

[BSK]

Redshift2k5, on 10 October 2014 - 03:00 AM, said:

• Lances can be modified by the team leader during the match to move players from lance to lance
  
• Odd-numbered or last-added premades can/must be split up
  
• you absolutely cannot form a group with more than 3 of any weight class. If there are 4 assaults on the same team, they cannot all be from the same premade launch group, but they can be from multiple groups if the matchmaker has "relaxed" the restrictions.

Nope. In 6 out of 8 games both teams had a lance with 4 Dire Whales ..

[Redshift2k5]

BSK, on 10 October 2014 - 03:37 AM, said:

Nope. In 6 out of 8 games both teams had a lance with 4 Dire Whales ..

Yes, there can be matches with 4 (or more) assaults.

If you're playing in group queue:
They were NOT in a premade together, it was either a group with 3 assaults and a group with 1 assault or two groups with 2 assaults each, and someone either took Company Command moved players to the or they just happened to get put into the same lance.

The matchmaker looks for exactly 3/3/3/3 first, but if it cannot find exactly 3/3/3/3 in a limited time it will "relax" these expectations and it will bring in a match with more/fewer of a specific weight class in order to keep wait times lower.

Matches can happen with more than 3 of a weight class, but when building your premade team to drop with the limits are absolute; if me and my friends drop together we cannot build a drop group with more than 3 of any class (but if we have 3 assaults we might join a team that also has one Assault, or 2 and 2, or 2+1+1)

If you're playing solo queue:
then drop deck doesn't matter, but the matchmaker will still TRY to look for 3/3/3/3 before relaxing the restriction and allowing for more/fewer of a weight class, and since dire wolves are very popular then it will tend to have more DWs than expected. This is required to keep wait times lower. The 3/3/3/3 is a baseline but matchs will happen with other numbers.

Edited by Redshift2k5, 10 October 2014 - 03:54 AM.

[BSK]

Listen buddy, I dont care about the theory, I am asking what people are observing RIGHT NOW in current matches. As long as you dont play a match now, your next post will be irrelevant.
As of RIGHT NOW the matches are all made as follows:
4 Assaults in one lance.
3 to 4 Heavies with an optional medium in another lance.
1 to 3 Mediums with optional Lights in the last lance.

In EVERY single match so far. The match maker is even looking for mechs of the same type, I have had matches with 4 Summoners or Cataphracts in the heavy lance. I can provide screenshots if you need them while you are at work and cant play a match ..

[Redshift2k5]

I believe you that matches are happening with 4 assault mechs. 3/3/3/3 is a guideline but the matcher is flexible and will pull in 2/3/3/4 or whatever if it does not find exactly 3/3/3/3 in a certain period of time.

Are you playing group queue or solo queue?

I'm just saying they are not a premade of 4 assaults, which lance they are in isn't relevant.