10376 replies to this topic

[aniviron]

Why does the RVN-2X have a left shoulder and arm actuator? That "arm" is a metal plate with no hardpoints.

[Redshift2k5]

aniviron, on 02 December 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Why does the RVN-2X have a left shoulder and arm actuator? That "arm" is a metal plate with no hardpoints.

Canon battletech.

[aniviron]

Redshift2k5, on 02 December 2013 - 02:14 PM, said:

Canon battletech.

I was hoping for a rational answer, rather than "things are the way they are because they are the way they are."

[Redshift2k5]

aniviron, on 02 December 2013 - 02:15 PM, said:

I was hoping for a rational answer, rather than "things are the way they are because they are the way they are."

That's the actual answer. sorry that it's a little nonsensical, but you may as well ask "why is an AC2 6 tons?" or "why are double heatsinks the same weight but three times as large?" And the fact remains they are this way because this is how Battletech construction rules work.

MWO has modified several numerical values but they are sticking to the construction rules (minus a few oddities like crit-splitting for large weapons or arm actuators on the victors)

Removing the 'useless' actuators would mean giving the mech more crit slots than it is supposed to have(to spend on Endo/Ferro, DHS, etc).

[Koniving]

aniviron, on 02 December 2013 - 02:06 PM, said:

Why does the RVN-2X have a left shoulder and arm actuator? That "arm" is a metal plate with no hardpoints.

TL;DR: Read Redshift's post above mine.
-------------
From a technical perspective using the game's 3D model, that 'arm' can rotate much like 2X's right arm laser cannon can, and there appears to be a second actuator just behind the shield that in terms of the 3D model has some 'flexibility'. When the mech falls on that side, the 'shield' arm bends in such a way that it proves some ability to move.

While completely useless in a game perspective, in terms of animation let's say a large cannon round hits the shield. Rather than bend under the impact as malleable metal often does, the arm chooses instead to flex and spread the shock of the impact to better absorb it.

I've been working on such a concept for an animation. Where the shot hits the shield and the arm tries to flex -- though for traumatic effect the arm breaks at the first actuator and cylinder literally crushes as the 'shield' slams into the side of the Raven, launching it into the air to slam into a nearby building. This, of course, is from an impact that occurs after the Raven's legs are already off the ground to try and shove a nearby Commando out of the way of the shot. Sadly, college has me so busy lately with character creation and 2D drawing that I haven't had any time to catch up on my MWO-centric projects.

But back on topic. That's your answer from a lore perspective. The shield arm is a flexible 'wing' that could be angled and tries to 'flex' to absorb impacts better. The real question is how does that tiny thing manage to hold all my heatsinks and ammo. From a gameplay mechanic perspective, they're using the basics of double-blind tabletop rules. Loosely, but pretty much that's it.

Now if they were more strict about it, some could argue that Victor and Dragon right arms would be locked to the torso reticule. Dragons would then be able to carry AC/20s and both Dragons and Victors in their current form would only be able to aim their left arms.

[Redshift2k5]

Koniving, on 02 December 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

Now if they were more strict about it, some could argue that Victor and Dragon right arms would be locked to the torso reticule. Dragons would then be able to carry AC/20s and both Dragons and Victors in their current form would only be able to aim their left arms.

Not locking those arms to the reticule is as exception. They should but they're not, for a very important reason- you'd need 3 reticules to aim torso, left arm, and right arm. Imagine firing the torso dead ahead, the right arm down a slope(with no lateral deviation since you have no lower arm actuation), and the left arm at a target on the left and down the slope. Theoretically possible but not bloody likely on a keyboard&mouse.

[Koniving]

Smart man. I am completely aware of that. And that would be the optimum one. Honestly though very few really shoot at two things at once despite our ability to do so, let alone would there be all that many trying to hit three things at once.

On shooting two things at once.

Spoiler

Since the loss of repair and rearm I stopped doing it myself because the game's skill system combined with DHS and XL engines basically removed any need or viability to suppress one target while engaging another. When heat management was difficult to achieve, a good rig could fight the medium rushing in while suppressing the assault on the hill.

The assault in this case, under suppression fire, shot its payload and missed and thus would automatically shut down, power up, retreat, power down manually and wait to cool off and come back shortly after. In about 5 seconds I'd start suppressing him again while still contending with the not-so-speedy-Gonzales in the Hunch/Centurion.

These days such is pointless, as instead of chain firing I'm simply alpha striking. All my damage goes to one spot; no need to contend with convergence over time (another reason suppression fire is no longer something worth doing in this mentioned case), and the medium's dead in a few seconds. The assault, about 10 seconds after that.

But back to the Victor/Dragon thing. Another though simpler solution could have been to have the right arm simply count as a torso crosshair.

Edited by Koniving, 02 December 2013 - 07:47 PM.

[aniviron]

Koniving, on 02 December 2013 - 07:29 PM, said:

TL;DR: Read Redshift's post above mine.
-------------
From a technical perspective using the game's 3D model, that 'arm' can rotate much like 2X's right arm laser cannon can, and there appears to be a second actuator just behind the shield that in terms of the 3D model has some 'flexibility'. When the mech falls on that side, the 'shield' arm bends in such a way that it proves some ability to move.

While completely useless in a game perspective, in terms of animation let's say a large cannon round hits the shield. Rather than bend under the impact as malleable metal often does, the arm chooses instead to flex and spread the shock of the impact to better absorb it.

I've been working on such a concept for an animation. Where the shot hits the shield and the arm tries to flex -- though for traumatic effect the arm breaks at the first actuator and cylinder literally crushes as the 'shield' slams into the side of the Raven, launching it into the air to slam into a nearby building. This, of course, is from an impact that occurs after the Raven's legs are already off the ground to try and shove a nearby Commando out of the way of the shot. Sadly, college has me so busy lately with character creation and 2D drawing that I haven't had any time to catch up on my MWO-centric projects.

But back on topic. That's your answer from a lore perspective. The shield arm is a flexible 'wing' that could be angled and tries to 'flex' to absorb impacts better. The real question is how does that tiny thing manage to hold all my heatsinks and ammo. From a gameplay mechanic perspective, they're using the basics of double-blind tabletop rules. Loosely, but pretty much that's it.

Now if they were more strict about it, some could argue that Victor and Dragon right arms would be locked to the torso reticule. Dragons would then be able to carry AC/20s and both Dragons and Victors in their current form would only be able to aim their left arms.

Whooo-eee, now THAT's an answer! If I could give you a hundred 'likes' for that post, I would. I'm going to read it again now, because it was that good an an answer.

Yep, still good. I appreciate your attention to detail. <3

[Koniving]

Perhaps. But since kinetic animations only function after death and inverse kinetics got removed, the answer's pretty much all fluff based on the 3D model.

I think the real like was from the scene, which is one of dozens upon dozens I wrote up. Whether we'll see them in 2014 is yet to be determined, though. On the plus side Haruko's got a headstart with her own.

[Big Bertha 00]

Topic: Paying for Ammo.

Just played my first 25 matches with trial mechs. Looking at purchasing my 1st mech. Before I do, I'm trying to fully understand the economy of the game. If I use ballistic weapons, do I need to purchase ammo to replace any ammo used during matches?

I did some forum searches, but I found conflicting answers(yes, yes, but only 25%, etc)

Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks.

[DEMAX51]

You no longer have to pay to repair or rearm your owned 'Mechs. For a while in closed beta this was a feature of the game, but it has since been removed (hence the conflicting answers you saw in your search).

Also, welcome to the game

Edited by DEMAX51, 04 December 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[TercieI]

Big Bertha 00, on 04 December 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Topic: Paying for Ammo.

Just played my first 25 matches with trial mechs. Looking at purchasing my 1st mech. Before I do, I'm trying to fully understand the economy of the game. If I use ballistic weapons, do I need to purchase ammo to replace any ammo used during matches?

I did some forum searches, but I found conflicting answers(yes, yes, but only 25%, etc)

Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks.

No. You have to buy it once, just like anything else.

Those results are from long ago, before R&R was removed.

[Koniving]

Big Bertha 00, on 04 December 2013 - 12:28 PM, said:

Topic: Paying for Ammo.

Just played my first 25 matches with trial mechs. Looking at purchasing my 1st mech. Before I do, I'm trying to fully understand the economy of the game. If I use ballistic weapons, do I need to purchase ammo to replace any ammo used during matches?

I did some forum searches, but I found conflicting answers(yes, yes, but only 25%, etc)

Can anyone clear this up for me? Thanks.

Short answer. No, not anymore.

Long answer, it's been implied from Paul Inouye (the designer in charge of balance) that Repair and Rearm is 'on hold', presumably until the Loyalty Point system has meaning. (Loyalty points -- you work for a faction, get some standing, earn points. Points lead to rank, rank leads to pay increases, pay increases lead to better equipment, and from here it is assumed that better equipment will lead to higher bills.) So you're safe for now. Myself I have so many tons worth of extra ammo I might not have to worry about R&R for a long time.

Neat thing to note: If you have less than a total ton of ammo (example "53" shots AC/2 when a ton of ammo is 75), when you go to mount it, you're charged part of the price to complete the ton -- so the underlying traces are still there.

[Victor Morson]

Koniving, on 02 December 2013 - 07:39 PM, said:

Smart man. I am completely aware of that. And that would be the optimum one. Honestly though very few really shoot at two things at once despite our ability to do so, let alone would there be all that many trying to hit three things at once.

If they ever add an achievement, that should be one. Best kill I ever made in this game was three people in a single alpha strike: Panned lasers over two ready to pop 'mechs at the same time my torso guns iced the guy in front of me.
I was laughing for two straight minutes. I didn't expect that result and truth be told, I didn't even bother aiming my torso guns. It looked like that joke gif from the BattleTech cartoon where the row of IS 'mechs get mowed down at once.

[DigiMatt]

Who should I be attacking and where should I be hitting them? If I have a specific type of mech, am I better off/worse off attacking a certain mech?

FYI, I am only just beginning and am...in trial mechs. And, for that matter, are there Trial-mech-only-battles?

[Alaskan Nobody]

DigiMatt, on 04 December 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Who should I be attacking and where should I be hitting them? If I have a specific type of mech, am I better off/worse off attacking a certain mech?

FYI, I am only just beginning and am...in trial mechs. And, for that matter, are there Trial-mech-only-battles?

That is... not excatly a short answer but I'll see what I can do for it till Koniving or the like comes along
Short answer? It depends.
Most Atlas you want to shoot the... right side I believe?
Generally whichever side holds the most weapons, if the mech's loadout is unbalanced.

If you are not already aware of it, press R by default to target the enemy, which will give you a paper doll of their mech in the upper right of your screen - showing where it has been damaged, and what weapons it has.


As for specific mech vs mech challenges... I know fighting Jenners in Locusts 1 on 1 is a good way to get yourself killed quick... (having said that, I like my Locusts )

If they outweigh you by (I would say) 5-20 tons, you are probably going to have a hard time - as they are still fast enough to make outmaneuvering them tricky, but big enough to easily outgun you.

(now to see what the real experts have to say. )

[TercieI]

DigiMatt, on 04 December 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

Who should I be attacking and where should I be hitting them? If I have a specific type of mech, am I better off/worse off attacking a certain mech?

FYI, I am only just beginning and am...in trial mechs. And, for that matter, are there Trial-mech-only-battles?

Short answer, long homework assignment.

This thread details hitboxes: http://mwomercs.com/...x-localisation/

Smurfy tells you about hard points (and nigh everything else): http://mwo.smurfy-net.de/

Also, check out MavRCK's tier list: http://mwomercs.com/...mech-tier-list/

and 80Bit's guide to mechs: http://mwomercs.com/...w-of-all-mechs/

to get a sense of what's likely to be out there.

Too much reading? Read Wadde's guide to MW:O for a good starton the learning curve: http://mwomercs.com/...s-guide-to-mwo/

Oh, and play. A lot.

Welcome to MWO.

[Koniving]

DigiMatt, on 04 December 2013 - 06:17 PM, said:

1) Who should I be attacking and where should I be hitting them?
2) If I have a specific type of mech, am I better off/worse off attacking a certain mech?

3) FYI, I am only just beginning and am...in trial mechs. And, for that matter, are there Trial-mech-only-battles?

1) A: Enemies are always 'red'. Allies are blue. Allies in your squad / lance are "Teal."
1) B: As for where to hit them, some quick yet basic rules: If it has lots of 'tank' autocannons, go for the legs (ammo + your shots = boom = chain reaction = fireworks; most mechs carry ammo in their legs to protect them from body shots...and then lower their leg armor).
If they are tiny and fast, aim for legs.
If they have very nasty guns go for side torsos.
If you want to kill something directly, go for the chest. Want to kill it fast? Go for the head.

2) Complex answer. I'll use the current trial mechs.
Spider: Chase enemy lights away from larger allies, but stay near the larger allies. When the larger allies engage bigger targets, begin harassing them (especially if the enemy is alone). To be honest you should may want to only use this mech only to learn how to move. (And come back to them later on when you can own and customize them in the future).
Blackjack: If you can find another like yourself, join up with them and attack the same targets. Otherwise you're basically a walking, jumping gun. The range on all your weapons requires you to get close, but you have a body that can't get close without lots of allies nearby. Pick and choose your battles. Use lasers on light mechs, use the cannon on bigger guys.
Dragon: Unfortunately the Dragon is rigged to be a sniper. Use the large lasers against fast targets. From a distance with cover or behind an ally, you can snipe with the Gauss Rifle. (Hold to charge. When the lights go out, let go to fire.) Honestly I prefer to engage slower, heavy guys.
Highlander: Despite my skepticism I tried this just an hour ago and wound up with 5 kills. The build runs very hot requiring some sparing use of the large lasers. I recommend changing the streaks to group 2 and the LLs to group 3. Streaks can handle lights well and are low heat. The AC/10 requires time to reach its target but it works well. It is your longest range weapon. The two Extended Range Large Lasers are nice but very, very hot. The Highlander works great when it attacks a large enemy mech from the side or behind.

Sorry this advice is short and limited. I'd normally use videos but my recording drive died.

3) I've been begging for a trial mechs only match mode. Sadly there is not one.

(Note: yesterday as of this edit, I was playing with Zhizhu and due to our large numbers we began synch dropping to compete. My comrades on the other side ambushed me with two BJ-1s with AC/20s and a Victor with an AC/20. The combination of 3 AC/20s + some lasers killed me instantly. The power of teaming up with similar mechs.)

Edited by Koniving, 06 December 2013 - 08:54 AM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

Koniving, on 04 December 2013 - 07:47 PM, said:

Sorry this advice is short and limited. I'd normally use videos but my recording drive died.

Now if only there was a smiley for <shocked horror>

[Koniving]

Shar Wolf, on 04 December 2013 - 08:01 PM, said:

Now if only there was a smiley for <shocked horror>

I know. Tomorrow when I get home I'll un-private the Victor video, it was one of 3 vids where I ran this new experimental rig and just kept butchering enemies with amazing heat efficiency coupled with great damage and kills. You can see all these funky corrupted lines and Jacob's Ladder style 'monster horror twitching' going on in it. My hard drive died when I tried to redo the video. It's also why there's a bunch of 'classic' vids being uploaded from November and December 2012. I'm cleaning out another hard drive to convert it into a temporary Fraps drive.

So check out the channel's new vids if you wanna see the progress PGI has made in 1 year.