10297 replies to this topic

[Tesunie]

I think what should probably be said about clan mechs to new players is "They are not new player friendly".

Why do I say this? You get more out of a clan mech the better you can aim and keep your damage on target. Clan mechs reward higher skill as an average with the manner that their weapons happen to work.

Guess why there are so many IS new player mech suggestions?

[Darth Futuza]

So I'm finally building myself a new pc, does this look acceptable for a $750 range Mech machine (obviously meeting min system specs, but is it worth the price)?

[Tesunie]

Darth Futuza, on 09 May 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

So I'm finally building myself a new pc, does this look acceptable for a $750 range Mech machine (obviously meeting min system specs, but is it worth the price)?

I'm no expert, so I can't say. It looks more than enough to me. If anything, the Video card is my only question. Those things (currently) confuse me as to how one determines it's strength. Each company seems to have a different rating system for it... (but that's probably me just not knowing the specifics).

I run an AMD A10 (3.7 GHz) with a 6700 Radeon, 8 GB ram. Runs MW:O reasonably enough. At least for me.

Any farther information, I'll leave to more "expert" advice. But the rig you are looking at I believe is stronger than/equivalent to what I run (if I'm looking at it right).

[mailin]

It looks pretty good. I do have some things for you to consider. Very often when players have issues with lag one of the first culprits that we consider is whether or not they are on wi-fi. If possible, go wired for MWO. If you really need wi-fi, you may want to consider going ac, rather than b/g/n. Just a thought. Also, I assume you've built PCs before, so I don't need to tell you that there's no OS on this system. If you want to save a bit of cash, you could drop the RAM down to 8 gb and/or go with an i5 processor.

Good luck and hope to see on the battlefield soon.

Edited by mailin, 09 May 2016 - 09:27 PM.

[Rogue Jedi]

Darth Futuza, on 09 May 2016 - 08:50 PM, said:

So I'm finally building myself a new pc, does this look acceptable for a $750 range Mech machine (obviously meeting min system specs, but is it worth the price)?

As has already been said you do not have an OS, you will want an OEM version of Windows, and make sure it is 64bit otherwise it will not recognise more than 4GB of RAM (including Graphics RAM). also as has been said hardwired is far superior to wireless, if you do not have or cannot put in network cabling then look for power line network adaptors, they plug into the wall and use the houses electrical cabling to transmit data, I have been using them for years, but they will be a lot more expensive than a wireless dongle.

other than that you should certainty be able to run MWO at high settings, I am not sure if it will run at very high, if not the GPU will probably be the bottleneck.

and we realy get ripped off in the UK on electronics prices, looking up a few of those the price in £ is about the same as the price in $ despite a pound being worth 1.44 dollars, so you effectivly get stuff 30% cheeper.

Tesunie, on 09 May 2016 - 09:20 PM, said:

I'm no expert, so I can't say. It looks more than enough to me. If anything, the Video card is my only question. Those things (currently) confuse me as to how one determines it's strength. Each company seems to have a different rating system for it... (but that's probably me just not knowing the specifics).

the way it works is the first number is the generation, GTX9 is nVidia's most recent generation, the second number is the position in the generation, 6 means a bit above average, other numbers fine tune where it is positioned in the lineup, the 960 would hypothetically be roughly equivalent to the 875, or 785

Quote

I run an AMD A10 (3.7 GHz) with a 6700 Radeon, 8 GB ram. Runs MW:O reasonably enough. At least for me.

Any farther information, I'll leave to more "expert" advice. But the rig you are looking at I believe is stronger than/equivalent to what I run (if I'm looking at it right).

this looks a lot stronger than Tesune's current PC, your I7 is 40-70% stronger than Tesune's A10 (unfortunately the Ghz count tells you nothing these days, especially considering there are several different 3.7GHZ A10s with completely different benchmarks)
your GPU is about 7 times as powerful as Tesune's.

At minimum that PC will be 50% more powerful, and probably closer to 3 times as powerful depending on which A10 CPU he has.

[Tesunie]

Rogue Jedi, on 10 May 2016 - 12:01 AM, said:

the way it works is the first number is the generation, GTX9 is nVidia's most recent generation, the second number is the position in the generation, 6 means a bit above average, other numbers fine tune where it is positioned in the lineup, the 960 would hypothetically be roughly equivalent to the 875, or 785


this looks a lot stronger than Tesune's current PC, your I7 is 40-70% stronger than Tesune's A10 (unfortunately the Ghz count tells you nothing these days, especially considering there are several different 3.7GHZ A10s with completely different benchmarks)
your GPU is about 7 times as powerful as Tesune's.

At minimum that PC will be 50% more powerful, and probably closer to 3 times as powerful depending on which A10 CPU he has.

Everything I know... is now wrong... (Not entirely)

I had to search high and low for a computer I could afford. Just knowing it ran MW:O on something other than minimum and I could afford it (I'm perpetually broke due to student loans) was a miracle. Sad part is, I had to add in a video card and a more robust power supply right out of the box... Still, was better than the Quad Core 1.25 GHz (or was it lower?) computer I returned to get this one. (Was a Christmas gift I had to return. Was really disappointed that a gift couldn't handle what I needed, as well as I hate returning gifts.)

I have no idea how to tell you which exact A10 I have. I'd love to know so I know where my system actually rests on the scale... It runs MW:O above minimum with reasonable frame rate (minus the Dropships as of late, which use to give me no problems previously).

It's funny. I know enough about computers to take them apart and put them back together. I can replace parts (like with like). But I don't know enough of the specs to be certain on what is better and what isn't. I can get the "This is obviously better than that", but the more fine tune parts... (Like is the Radeon 6700 as good as the Nvidia GTX792, or is the Graphics Pro 1970 better*?)

*Random numbers are random. Random name was random. Just examples.

[Rogue Jedi]

Tesunie, on 10 May 2016 - 12:23 AM, said:

I have no idea how to tell you which exact A10 I have. I'd love to know so I know where my system actually rests on the scale... It runs MW:O above minimum with reasonable frame rate (minus the Dropships as of late, which use to give me no problems previously).

It's funny. I know enough about computers to take them apart and put them back together. I can replace parts (like with like). But I don't know enough of the specs to be certain on what is better and what isn't. I can get the "This is obviously better than that", but the more fine tune parts... (Like is the Radeon 6700 as good as the Nvidia GTX792, or is the Graphics Pro 1970 better*?)

*Random numbers are random. Random name was random. Just examples.

Hi Tesunie,
to find out exactly which A10 you have, open up your file browser, and right click on where it says this "Computer" or "this PC", then select properties from the list of options, under processor it should tell you your A10's model number, if it does not go to device manager and look under processors.

once you know the model number to find out how good that is in relation to another look up benchmarks for each, ^{(be sure to use the same site as one sites benchmarks will not usually have the same scoring system as another)} do a web search for your model number with the word benchmark, there are lots of different sites which do benchmarks for hardware including CPUs and GPUs (graphics cards)

I hope that helps.

[p4r4g0n]

@Tesunie https://www.cpubench...h_end_cpus.html

However, please note that when it comes to CPUs and MWO, I believe Intel CPUs work better with MWO than comparable AMD ones at least straight out of the box w/o tweaks. Could be outdated information but since Goose is not here .....

There's a similar list for GPUs

Edited by p4r4g0n, 10 May 2016 - 01:16 AM.

[Rogue Jedi]

p4r4g0n, on 10 May 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

@Tesunie https://www.cpubench...h_end_cpus.html

However, please note that when it comes to CPUs and MWO, I believe Intel CPUs work better with MWO than comparable AMD ones at least straight out of the box w/o tweaks. Could be outdated information but since Goose is not here .....

There's a similar list for GPUs

this page is better, it allows you to search for the precise models, rather than visually hunt through a list
https://www.cpubench...et/cpu_list.php
and for GPUs
http://www.videocard...et/gpu_list.php

the way the current AMD CPUs are designed they have pairs of cores which share some stuff which is usually not a bottleneck, unfortunately the shared parts are important for MWO which effectively slows down AMD CPUs in MWO, which is why Intel is better for AMD for MWO.

In most cases AMD works out cheaper for comparable performance, Intel has the absolute best performing chips but usually at a certain price point (at least with UK prices) AMD will usualy have the best performing processor, unfortunately with the way MWO uses resources the Intel chips are significantly better than AMD for this game.

[Darth Futuza]

@Rogue Jedi , @Tesunie , @mailin

Thanks for the responses, I didn't include an OS as I already have an unused Win7 key and will be dual booting with either Redhat or Ubuntu. I choose to go for an i7, as this will also be doing a bit of compiling and I tend to find it is much better over i5 for that kind of load. I also got the Wi-Fi adapter as a just in case, as I'm pretty sure I may occasionally not be able to use Ethernet. The thing I'm most unsure on is the graphics card, is an extra $100 worth spending for a gtx 970? I'm hoping to play at 1080p with stable 60FPS (even on Grim Plexus), at high or better settings and I don't need higher requirements then that (don't care about 4K or any of that other stuff). If I can get away with a 960 then I don't want to have to spend the extra cash.

[Rogue Jedi]

The 970 offers, if I remember correctly, something like a 30% power boost so it is for you to decide if that is worthwhile, the ?6?. Series tends to be the best "bang for your buck", ?70 and higher you start paying several times the price for lesser increases, weather or not it is worth it is not something I can tell you

[Tesunie]

Rogue Jedi, on 10 May 2016 - 01:00 AM, said:

Hi Tesunie,
to find out exactly which A10 you have, open up your file browser, and right click on where it says this "Computer" or "this PC", then select properties from the list of options, under processor it should tell you your A10's model number, if it does not go to device manager and look under processors.

once you know the model number to find out how good that is in relation to another look up benchmarks for each, ^{(be sure to use the same site as one sites benchmarks will not usually have the same scoring system as another)} do a web search for your model number with the word benchmark, there are lots of different sites which do benchmarks for hardware including CPUs and GPUs (graphics cards)

I hope that helps.

p4r4g0n, on 10 May 2016 - 01:15 AM, said:

@Tesunie https://www.cpubench...h_end_cpus.html

However, please note that when it comes to CPUs and MWO, I believe Intel CPUs work better with MWO than comparable AMD ones at least straight out of the box w/o tweaks. Could be outdated information but since Goose is not here .....

There's a similar list for GPUs

Funny thing with my CPU processor, it says it's an AMD A10-6700 with Radeon HD Graphics. The Radeon graphics card I placed in was a 6700 (I believe, I can pull out to double check) HD Graphics Card... It's like in my "PC Info" tab, the two processors got merged. (When I first booted my computer up without the added Video card, I believe it just said AMD A10... but I'm not entirely certain.)

I can say, without the separate installed video card, it can not run MW:O...

On that list, it was ranked at "AMD A10-6800K APU 4,910". But I also noticed a "AMD A10-6800B APU 4,974". My computer doesn't seem to specify K or B... But I also saw "AMD A10-6700 APU 4,622", so I'm guessing the last one is mine. In comparison, his proposed is "Intel Core i7-4790 @ 3.60GHz 10,019". Looks to be double mine, so it should handle MW:O with ease.

Video card (if I have the right one, I believe the box said 6770) seems to be hard to locate. I found a "Radeon HD 6770 1,660". It was located only in the "high end" list... is that good? (I really wish my computer would tell me the numbers as a separate graphics processor.)

I still have to say... Video Card rankings make no sense. Some of the lower card numbers were better? Blah. I'll just stick to asking for help if I need it. Too confusing!

[mailin]

Darth Futuza, on 10 May 2016 - 06:23 AM, said:

@Rogue Jedi , @Tesunie , @mailin

Thanks for the responses, I didn't include an OS as I already have an unused Win7 key and will be dual booting with either Redhat or Ubuntu. I choose to go for an i7, as this will also be doing a bit of compiling and I tend to find it is much better over i5 for that kind of load. I also got the Wi-Fi adapter as a just in case, as I'm pretty sure I may occasionally not be able to use Ethernet. The thing I'm most unsure on is the graphics card, is an extra $100 worth spending for a gtx 970? I'm hoping to play at 1080p with stable 60FPS (even on Grim Plexus), at high or better settings and I don't need higher requirements then that (don't care about 4K or any of that other stuff). If I can get away with a 960 then I don't want to have to spend the extra cash.

The 960 should be fine. Not too sure if you'll be able to run with everything on high settings and get a consitent 60fps, but if you play with your settings just a little bit you should be fine. I have an i7 4770K and a GTX760. I run on about medium settings with a few things turned up and I generally get around 120fps at 1900x1200. (My monitor can handle up to 144 which is why I went for the higher frame rate.)

Edited by mailin, 10 May 2016 - 01:08 PM.

[p4r4g0n]

Tesunie, on 10 May 2016 - 09:07 AM, said:

Funny thing with my CPU processor, it says it's an AMD A10-6700 with Radeon HD Graphics.
-snip-

I believe this means that there is an integrated GPU which is why AMD calls it a Accelerated Processing Unit. Whether the 6700 refers to the integrated graphics or the separate standalone GPU, I am not certain.

Have you tried running both GPUs in Crossfire mode? If you can get it to work, it will possibly improve MWO performance.

If you are running MSI Afterburner, you should be able to see both GPUs. Alternatively, you might want to look at Speccy which is a great utility for getting a detailed list and information on all your components.

[Digital_Angel]

p4r4g0n, on 10 May 2016 - 02:35 PM, said:

I believe this means that there is an integrated GPU which is why AMD calls it a Accelerated Processing Unit. Whether the 6700 refers to the integrated graphics or the separate standalone GPU, I am not certain.

Yes, the AMD A series as well as the Intel Core I-? series are APUs, meaning they have a built in graphics chip.

The 6700 on an A10-6700 is a model number. While you can look up the specs for the integrated graphics through that number, it is not the same as going out and buying a Radeon 6700 video card in many ways.

1) The graphics chip is not the same as what a 6700 series card would be.
2) All integrated graphics use system memory for video memory, AMD or Intel
2a) Most integrated chips max out how much system memory they can even use at either 128/256/512 MB of RAM, the rare exception would be 1GB
2b) Normal video memory uses different technology from system RAM with different bandwidth specs, because it expects a different type of workload.
2c) Because of 2b, even if your integrated chip would use up to 2GB or 4GB of system memory, it would not perform as well as a stand alone video card with that amount of VRAM, even if it's processor was equivalent to what is built into the APU.
3) Usually the built in graphics processor in an APU is equivalent to 2-3 generations ago on above average stand alone video cards and the equivalent of 4-5 generations ago sometimes when comparing top end graphics cards.


Example of this, my computer I built a few months ago has an i5-4690K processor. The top end of the 4th gen i5 chips. My graphics card is a Radeon HD 7800. While my card is slightly factory overclocked and is only a 2GB card, and a few generations old at that, it still runs MWO at many times the performance as the integrated chip even when I max out (512 MB) the amount of system RAM the chip is allowed to use and upgrade system RAM to compensate. Yes my system with 12GB of RAM (.5GB used for video) on the integrated chip (2 generations old) does not even come close to 8GB of RAM and a 4-5 generation old video card with the same CPU and all other system components the same.

Being an IT geek I tested it just for fun once. Day to day I run the dedicated card and all 12GB of RAM, even though technically the extra 4 GB of RAM I have is a slower speed by 333MHz than the other 8GB. Even with the system running at the slower RAM speed, having 50% more to work with more than compensates.

The direct comparisons show above for my system were before I started overclocking CPU or video card further, but the comparisons still held (even more so) afterwards.

[Timicon]

Okay, with the new FP now underway, I was wondering, which of the Inner Sohere 'Mechs would be better suited to perform that role? I know that most Clan pilots choose to bring and use their Stormcrows, but what is a good Inner Sphere 'Mech to use? A lot of people bring Spiders (because of their advanced speed) and have done that myself from time to time, but I cannot handle the speed of a Spider, so I was wondering about the Raven- 3L?
Sure, it is not as fast as the Spider is, but the ECM the Raven -3L has makes up for what it lacks, am I right? (Someone correct me if I am wrong here).

So basically, my question is as above: what Inner Sphere 'Mech is best to use when performing scouting missions in FP? And what Inner Sphere 'Mech did you have the most success with during the scouting missions?

Thanks for all your input and will take note of what everyone says so I can balance the pros and cons of each 'Mech chassis before I make my decision.

(Rasalhague Guardian Defenders - Comapny Commander - Korporal Timicon)

[TercieI]

Timicon, on 12 May 2016 - 05:13 PM, said:

Okay, with the new FP now underway, I was wondering, which of the Inner Sohere 'Mechs would be better suited to perform that role? I know that most Clan pilots choose to bring and use their Stormcrows, but what is a good Inner Sphere 'Mech to use? A lot of people bring Spiders (because of their advanced speed) and have done that myself from time to time, but I cannot handle the speed of a Spider, so I was wondering about the Raven- 3L?
Sure, it is not as fast as the Spider is, but the ECM the Raven -3L has makes up for what it lacks, am I right? (Someone correct me if I am wrong here).

So basically, my question is as above: what Inner Sphere 'Mech is best to use when performing scouting missions in FP? And what Inner Sphere 'Mech did you have the most success with during the scouting missions?

Thanks for all your input and will take note of what everyone says so I can balance the pros and cons of each 'Mech chassis before I make my decision.

(Rasalhague Guardian Defenders - Comapny Commander - Korporal Timicon)

GRF-3M and Oxide are probably the best two IS mechs for Scouting...if you can hit fast moving targets with SRMs.

[Tesunie]

TercieI, on 12 May 2016 - 05:24 PM, said:

GRF-3M and Oxide are probably the best two IS mechs for Scouting...if you can hit fast moving targets with SRMs.

Oxides have been what I've been seeing to be honest. Some Shadowhawks might also work, such as the 2D2. Twin LPLs and a battery of SRMs or even SSRMs... Could do some damage I'd imagine.

[TercieI]

Tesunie, on 12 May 2016 - 05:59 PM, said:

Oxides have been what I've been seeing to be honest. Some Shadowhawks might also work, such as the 2D2. Twin LPLs and a battery of SRMs or even SSRMs... Could do some damage I'd imagine.

The best brawling 2D2 is an AC/10 and 4SRM4s. Punches hard and runs cool. Could work in scouting since it tends to be slow, but you can carry less ammo in scouting.

[Tesunie]

TercieI, on 12 May 2016 - 07:50 PM, said:

The best brawling 2D2 is an AC/10 and 4SRM4s. Punches hard and runs cool. Could work in scouting since it tends to be slow, but you can carry less ammo in scouting.

Wouldn't work so well in scouting in it's current configuration, but changing the ERPPCs into LPLs would probably make this rather deadly. Be it with SSRM2s or SRM4s, I think either or could work well. Even with an AC10, it probably could do well.. (I believe my current version of the 2D2 is with two ERPPCs and 4 SRM4s... But I can't recall. I don't use it very much.)

There are a lot of mechs that can work decent for scouting, depending upon what your ultimate goal might be. Get the beacons? Kill the enemy? Either tactic can be effective in scout missions.