10297 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

Tesunie, on 09 May 2016 - 05:04 PM, said:

I think what should probably be said about clan mechs to new players is "They are not new player friendly".

I'm curious as to what you mean, because I didn't get it. I can play both IS and CL, but I immediately liked clan mechs more and still do. On average, I get same results with trial clan mechs as with elited IS.

[Spangle]

Do bonuses stack?

I bought the patron pack so get 10% C-bill and XP bonus but if I'm playing a hero or champion mech how does the 30% bonus get worked out?

e.g are they both just on what I earned or is one worked out then added on to the other and then the second is worked out from that total?

Just though of premium time too in the mix?

[Rogue Jedi]

Spangle, on 13 May 2016 - 02:47 AM, said:

Do bonuses stack?

I bought the patron pack so get 10% C-bill and XP bonus but if I'm playing a hero or champion mech how does the 30% bonus get worked out?

e.g are they both just on what I earned or is one worked out then added on to the other and then the second is worked out from that total?

Just though of premium time too in the mix?

the bonuses do stack, they add up all the bonuses, so most special Mechs gets a 30% bonus ether to XP ^{(Sarahs Jenner JR7-D(S) and Champion (C))}or cbill ^{(heroes and any other letter in brackets)} income, if you also have premium time that is a 50% to both XP and Cbills, and the tournament supporters pack gives an extra 10% to both, so if you were piloting a Mech with a cbill bonus with premium time and you have purchased the tournament supporters pack you get a 90% bonus to cbill income (30%+50%+10%)so if you would have earned 100,000 cbills you get 190,000 cbills

[Timicon]

Wow thanks, everyone - to be honest, I never would have thought the Griffin one of the best IS 'Mechs to use in that role! I always assumed something from the light class would fit the role perfectly, but reflecting n it now, I can see how Griffins would be a versatile 'Mech.

[TercieI]

Timicon, on 13 May 2016 - 06:03 AM, said:

Wow thanks, everyone - to be honest, I never would have thought the Griffin one of the best IS 'Mechs to use in that role! I always assumed something from the light class would fit the role perfectly, but reflecting n it now, I can see how Griffins would be a versatile 'Mech.

They're terrific because they can fight both enemy lights and mediums. SRMs should out-effective-DPS streaks and they can tear legs off lights. But that all assumes you can shoot. Nailing components with SRMs is definitely a skill.

[Tesunie]

DavidStarr, on 13 May 2016 - 12:08 AM, said:

I'm curious as to what you mean, because I didn't get it. I can play both IS and CL, but I immediately liked clan mechs more and still do. On average, I get same results with trial clan mechs as with elited IS.

I had answered that in another thread, so I'll just copy and paste it here. (So if the context is a little off, you know why.)
What I mean is:
- Clan lasers typically have longer burn duration than IS lasers. This leads to more incidents of friendly fire, and more splash damage.
- Clan ACs shoot in bursts. This leads to more splash damage.
- Due to the longer damage times of clan weapons, you need to keep your cross hairs on target more. A new player will be harder pressed to do so.
- CERPPCs run hotter. Hotter means harder for a new player to use, as they are still learning the heat scale.
- More expensive mechs.
- More expensive gear.
- Many clan mechs are higher priority targets over many IS counterparts. (People are more likely to shoot at the Timberwold and/or Stormcrow over a Hunchback, Crab or sometimes even an Atlas.)

There are good points to clan tech too:
- Omni lets a single chassis do more. More flexibility means more play style options to learn.
- Larger SSRM racks. Combine with CAP to disable any stray ECM...
- CLRMs don't have a hard "minimum range". Makes them a decent "universal" weapons.
- All upgrades are basically already built in. No extra C-bills to pay after purchase.
- Cheaper to try out alternative play styles. Just change a few omnipods, rather than buying a whole new mech...

Basically, Clan mechs and technology (as an average) rewards more skillful play.

(Recall, my points are for use of the mech, as much as for expense to customize those mechs as well. So, even if you bought a clan mech they will not work as well as the Champion mechs (unless of course you buy one of them), mostly due to less optimizations/min-maxing.)

[Spangle]

Thought that's how it would work where each one is worked on the original earnings

Rather than say earn your 100,000 get 10% for patriot then get 30% on 110,000 for chassis then get 50% on 143,000 for premium time giving a crazy total of 214,500

Or any combination there of

[S 0 L E N Y A]

^ I wish.

[Doctor Dinosaur]

Did not want to create a new topic for this:
Why does the KDK-3 with TWO LBX20 have a targeting computer MKVI? For those "sweet" 4 ERML, or did I miss something regarding LBX and TC?

[TercieI]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 17 May 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Did not want to create a new topic for this:
Why does the KDK-3 with TWO LBX20 have a targeting computer MKVI? For those "sweet" 4 ERML, or did I miss something regarding LBX and TC?

Tabletop stock builds. It's better not to think too hard about them. Just strip the mech, open Smurfy and get to work.

[Doctor Dinosaur]

Well, I am going to replace them with UAC anyways. But damn, that sure is a noob trap! Thanks for the clarification

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 17 May 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Did not want to create a new topic for this:
Why does the KDK-3 with TWO LBX20 have a targeting computer MKVI? For those "sweet" 4 ERML, or did I miss something regarding LBX and TC?

Pretty sure it will still boost projectile speed.
But outside of die hard lore nerds, who cares about stock builds?

[Darth Futuza]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 17 May 2016 - 05:11 AM, said:

Well, I am going to replace them with UAC anyways. But damn, that sure is a noob trap! Thanks for the clarification

Yeah PGI tries to stay accurate to the lore usually, but for most times the lore has terrible builds.

[Tesunie]

Darth Futuza, on 17 May 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Yeah PGI tries to stay accurate to the lore usually, but for most times the lore has terrible builds.

Only within the scope of how MW:O implemented some of the tech into the game (for the most part).

One such occurrence: CASE in an IS XL equipped mech. Without any repair or rearm, it's meaningless here. In lore, it would spare the mech of being totally destroyed in the case of an ammo explosion, and make repairs to the engine possible and cheaper. (Same with why FF is often taken over ES. Easier to maintain, repair, cheaper...)

[Koniving]

Darth Futuza, on 17 May 2016 - 09:57 AM, said:

Yeah PGI tries to stay accurate to the lore usually, but for most times the lore has terrible builds.

In MWO, the lore builds are terrible. For BT, the MWO meta builds are excessively overdone trash (and walking bombs for those ammo ones), and that's even though the armor/structure is cut in half or greater in BT, so these rapid-killing wonders from MWO should pwn, but instead they either destroy themselves or are severely underpowered and overcooled when put into BT.

It's all a matter of how they are introduced and if builds can't perform close to the same either way, then the translation between the two wasn't done too well and thus, judging its performance after being jumbled into almost completely foreign rules is quite unfair.

----

Doctor Dinosaur, on 17 May 2016 - 04:40 AM, said:

Did not want to create a new topic for this:
Why does the KDK-3 with TWO LBX20 have a targeting computer MKVI? For those "sweet" 4 ERML, or did I miss something regarding LBX and TC?

Does nothing for the LBX (This needs to change, LBX is severely underused for what is canonically a superior weapon to the standard AC).
Faster targeting data and range does help, though.

[Darth Futuza]

Koniving, on 18 May 2016 - 08:56 AM, said:

In MWO, the lore builds are terrible. For BT, the MWO meta builds are excessively overdone trash (and walking bombs for those ammo ones), and that's even though the armor/structure is cut in half or greater in BT, so these rapid-killing wonders from MWO should pwn, but instead they either destroy themselves or are severely underpowered and overcooled when put into BT.

It's all a matter of how they are introduced and if builds can't perform close to the same either way, then the translation between the two wasn't done too well and thus, judging its performance after being jumbled into almost completely foreign rules is quite unfair.

Yeah well that's to be expected MWO is an FPS not a tabletop game, it'd be dumb if the mechs were performing identically.

[Koniving]

Spoiler

Darth Futuza, on 18 May 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Yeah well that's to be expected MWO is an FPS not a tabletop game, it'd be dumb if the mechs were performing identically.

Funny thing is they could, if the rules were at least similar. That is your weapons do all do 1x damage with exceptions where found in source, against 1x armor/structure, with 1x damage to heat ratios, 30 heat cap with 1-to-1 cooling rates, and account for the TT simplified front loaded pinpoint damage per weapon with a dose of the lore (autocannons akin to anti-air guns and NOT tank rounds; thats what Mech Rifles were! Lasers of 0.1 to 2 second beam times with damage spread in the longer beam times or multiple quick shots. Missikes fld, ppcs fld, gauss fld). Some of mwo's meta mechs in real time would be impossible to use, most of the game breaking ones would be impossible, the typical 10 shs stock mech would be great unless you melted/lost a heatsink or took a crit to the engine. A single Gauss Rifle would be terrifying to face. Mechs would explode and potentially cause chain reactions if overloaded with ammo and then crit.

MWO has 2x armor structure with slightly more than 1-1 heat if you count dissipation alone, "quad heatsinks" if you count threshold increases too. Yet despite this they are never cold enough considering the record weapon in MWO could churn out 38* the damage of its source counterpart in just 0.08 seconds more time than the source one could.

It could very easily perform on par despite being two different kinds of games. Through megamek you can make MWO before quirks through simultaneous turns, giving all pilots the sniper skill and "0" (God mode) gunnery skill with God mode piloting skill to ensure they never fall over, glancing/direct blows, doubling armor/structure and allowing all weapons to fire at least 3 times per turn. Then MWO meta mechs are Kings in BT and perform close to their MWO versions, because the rules closely match the origin, MWO.

MWO doesn't even loosely match BT in rules and as such, BT builds just don't work well.

Edited by Koniving, 18 May 2016 - 01:39 PM.

[Tesunie]

Darth Futuza, on 18 May 2016 - 11:38 AM, said:

Yeah well that's to be expected MWO is an FPS not a tabletop game, it'd be dumb if the mechs were performing identically.

Koniving, on 18 May 2016 - 01:35 PM, said:

Spoiler

Funny thing is they could, if the rules were at least similar. That is your weapons do all do 1x damage with exceptions where found in source, against 1x armor/structure, with 1x damage to heat ratios, 30 heat cap with 1-to-1 cooling rates, and account for the TT simplified front loaded pinpoint damage per weapon with a dose of the lore (autocannons akin to anti-air guns and NOT tank rounds; thats what Mech Rifles were! Lasers of 0.1 to 2 second beam times with damage spread in the longer beam times or multiple quick shots. Missikes fld, ppcs fld, gauss fld). Some of mwo's meta mechs in real time would be impossible to use, most of the game breaking ones would be impossible, the typical 10 shs stock mech would be great unless you melted/lost a heatsink or took a crit to the engine. A single Gauss Rifle would be terrifying to face. Mechs would explode and potentially cause chain reactions if overloaded with ammo and then crit.

MWO has 2x armor structure with slightly more than 1-1 heat if you count dissipation alone, "quad heatsinks" if you count threshold increases too. Yet despite this they are never cold enough considering the record weapon in MWO could churn out 38* the damage of its source counterpart in just 0.08 seconds more time than the source one could.

It could very easily perform on par despite being two different kinds of games. Through megamek you can make MWO before quirks through simultaneous turns, giving all pilots the sniper skill and "0" (God mode) gunnery skill with God mode piloting skill to ensure they never fall over, glancing/direct blows, doubling armor/structure and allowing all weapons to fire at least 3 times per turn. Then MWO meta mechs are Kings in BT and perform close to their MWO versions, because the rules closely match the origin, MWO.

MWO doesn't even loosely match BT in rules and as such, BT builds just don't work well.

You each are correct.

This is a FPS styled game, so some things wont work as it does in TT, a turn based game. Some things would need to be adjusted for smoother and better game play.

However, this game could have still been better adjusted to more closely match it's source rules, and thus could have easily made more stock like mechs relevant.

You each are correct.


Is this when I remark that I play stock mechs in live matches often enough? (I also play them in private matches as well, as all stock events.) (Should I mention I do this with a second account? Which is already almost T3!?!?)

[Doctor Dinosaur]

Kodiak-3: Can't push an UAC20 to the upper hardpoint slot with the help of an MG. This works with Gauss/MG. Bug or feature?

[TercieI]

Doctor Dinosaur, on 19 May 2016 - 09:53 AM, said:

Kodiak-3: Can't push an UAC20 to the upper hardpoint slot with the help of an MG. This works with Gauss/MG. Bug or feature?

They have said they want to allow specific hardpoints, but haven't made any effort at it. So...yes?

Edited by TercieI, 19 May 2016 - 09:58 AM.