10417 replies to this topic

[DavidStarr]

TercieI, on 21 December 2016 - 10:15 AM, said:

After spending a few minutes trying to build a brawling Tempest, I don't find a build I really like, I might try this modification of your second build.
Ferrigno is mine. It's a pretty good PUG mech (where ECM matters most).

Thanks. I think I get your point - more heatsinks and more lasers. I know MPLs are better for brawling, and way better still for hit and run. The reason I used only MLs on this mech is because it's quirked for them. I mean, when you don't play to the mech's quirks then there's probably a different mech that does the very same thing better...

Edited by DavidStarr, 21 December 2016 - 02:23 PM.

[TercieI]

DavidStarr, on 21 December 2016 - 02:22 PM, said:

Thanks. I think I get your point - more heatsinks and more lasers. I know MPLs are better for brawling, and way better still for hit and run. The reason I used only MLs on this mech is because it's quirked for them. I mean, when you don't play to the mech's quirks then there's probably a different mech that does the very same thing better...

I admit I didn't check the quirks, but 5% cooldown is not something that would have a huge influence on how I built a mech. The 10% missile heat gen and velocity would make me more likely to try to get that third launcher into the CT. But I started there and was actually struggling to use up the tonnage.

[DavidStarr]

TercieI, on 21 December 2016 - 02:30 PM, said:

I admit I didn't check the quirks, but 5% cooldown is not something that would have a huge influence on how I built a mech.

That's a good point. I didn't stop to think 5% is too little a bonus to bend a loadout towards it.

The key to using tonnage could be NOT equipping endo-steel?

[IraqiWalker]

DavidStarr, on 21 December 2016 - 11:24 PM, said:

That's a good point. I didn't stop to think 5% is too little a bonus to bend a loadout towards it.

The key to using tonnage could be NOT equipping endo-steel?

Endo steel is nice to have, but it's not mandatory. If your build fits without Endo, then by Kerensky do it without Endo.

[DavidStarr]

Which medium, heavy and assault hero mechs are worth a purchase? I'm still looking to pick something up during the upcoming sale, and I'm especially interested in heroes that are good at something other than laser vomit. I think I've set my mind on a Kodiak "Spirit Bear", other than that I have no idea.

Can any of the hero mechs perform well as a dedicated LRM platform?

Edited by DavidStarr, 22 December 2016 - 04:30 AM.

[IraqiWalker]

DavidStarr, on 22 December 2016 - 03:00 AM, said:

Which medium, heavy and assault hero mechs are worth a purchase? I'm still looking to pick something up during the upcoming sale, and I'm especially interested in heroes that are good at something other than laser vomit. I think I've set my mind on a Kodiak "Spirit Bear", other than that I have no idea.

Can any of the hero mechs perform well as a dedicated LRM platform?

I honestly can't think of a single hero I would recommend to be a LRM boat.

[DavidStarr]

IraqiWalker, on 22 December 2016 - 10:48 AM, said:

I honestly can't think of a single hero I would recommend to be a LRM boat.

Alright, let's forget that, then. Are there any hero mechs that perform OK (not necessarily super-meta, but OK), and at the same time offer something unique compared to the regular variants of the chassis?

[TercieI]

DavidStarr, on 22 December 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

Alright, let's forget that, then. Are there any hero mechs that perform OK (not necessarily super-meta, but OK), and at the same time offer something unique compared to the regular variants of the chassis?

Butterbee isn't quirked as heavily as its siblings but has more hardpoints. May be really strong with new skill system.

[IraqiWalker]

DavidStarr, on 22 December 2016 - 01:29 PM, said:

Alright, let's forget that, then. Are there any hero mechs that perform OK (not necessarily super-meta, but OK), and at the same time offer something unique compared to the regular variants of the chassis?

The Archer one is interesting. does a bit of laserspam and SRM punching.

Huginn, and Oxide definitely differ from the standard variants and offer a unique experience (ammo dependent weapons only).
The heroes tend to always do something the standard variants lack, or don't do as well (except for Golden Boy. Stay away from that one). Look at regular Jagers, and then look at Firebrand. Same with Riflemen and Legend Killer... or Misery ... etc.

Those are all solid choices to consider for your next purchase.

Edited by IraqiWalker, 22 December 2016 - 07:41 PM.

[Koniving]

Golden boy does good stuff too.

Each hero is usually a combination of two existing variants.

Exceptions include X-5, Misery, IV, Heavy Metal...
The do something the others don't.
Respectively...
Carry missiles. Carry a ballistic. Carry ballistics. Mount lasers on the arm.

[S 0 L E N Y A]

PGI has to play a tricky game with hero mechs and ballance.
On the one hand, it has to be unique because it is behind a paywall.
On the other, it cant be TOO unique, because it is behind a paywall in an otherwise free game.

That said, top two hero mechs in the game as of now (this seriously could change any given month) : Spirit Bear and Blackwidow

[DavidStarr]

Other free games have no problem with quite unique vehicles behind paywalls. As long as it's balanced, I don't see a problem.

Blackwidow is the name I never heard before, gonna see what it is, thanks.

[Rogue Jedi]

DavidStarr, on 24 December 2016 - 02:22 AM, said:

Other free games have no problem with quite unique vehicles behind paywalls. As long as it's balanced, I don't see a problem. Blackwidow is the name I never heard before, gonna see what it is, thanks.

PGI have done a great job of making sure that a free player can compete on even footing with someone who has spent thousands of dollers

the Black Widow is the Warhammer Hero Mech, it has 4 hardpoints each E and B.
it is arguably the best varient of one of arguably the best chassis, I love it for 4 each lasers and Machine Guns with max engine and near instant target info thanks to Command Console, Begal Active probe and Target Info Gathering

other people like it for loadouts like 2 AC10 + 4 lasers or 4 (U)AC5

[DavidStarr]

Rogue Jedi, on 24 December 2016 - 07:28 AM, said:

PGI have done a great job of making sure that a free player can compete on even footing with someone who has spent thousands of dollers

I can confidently say they overdid it. I can't find a single hero that's really special and worth the money. I literally want to help PGI fund the game and they didn't give me enough incentive for that.

Black Widow can't fit 4 UAC/5, by the way, unless I'm missing something obvious. 4 AC/5 is quite doable, but ballistic quirks are negligible. I suppose it's one of the better IS dakka medium mechs, just because it's 70 ton, but clan 70 and 75 mediums are probably better.

[Tesunie]

DavidStarr, on 24 December 2016 - 02:21 PM, said:

I can confidently say they overdid it. I can't find a single hero that's really special and worth the money. I literally want to help PGI fund the game and they didn't give me enough incentive for that.

Black Widow can't fit 4 UAC/5, by the way, unless I'm missing something obvious. 4 AC/5 is quite doable, but ballistic quirks are negligible. I suppose it's one of the better IS dakka medium mechs, just because it's 70 ton, but clan 70 and 75 mediums are probably better.

Yen-lo-wang is reasonably good, and better than many Cents (without being "better"), for one example. I know my Hero Huntsman is different enough to be nice, and one of my best performing Huntsmen. There are heros worth getting, but I feel PGI did well making it so that no one "pay for" mech is better than their C-bill counter parts, keeping the game away from "Pay to Win". They are different without being more "powerful".

And for an FYI... Mediums are 40-55 tons. 60-75 tons are Heavy mechs... And yes, the Black Widow can fit 4 UAC5s no problem, as long as you stick to a standard engine. Just like the Catapult 2K can. If it can do it within it's tonnage I don't know for certain, but I'm sure it can be built.

[Rogue Jedi]

Tesunie, on 24 December 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

yes, the Black Widow can fit 4 UAC5s no problem, as long as you stick to a standard engine. Just like the Catapult 2K can. If it can do it within it's tonnage I don't know for certain, but I'm sure it can be built.

the Catapult K2 only has 2 balistic hardpoints, so cannot do 4 UAC5, Black widow definately can but with endo structure, no engine ammo or armor you have 28 tons spare, a 200 standard engine and the required 2 heatsinks gives you DWF type speed and a bit short of 17 tons for ammo and armor, so you would be lacking in one or the other

[Tesunie]

Rogue Jedi, on 24 December 2016 - 03:09 PM, said:

the Catapult K2 only has 2 balistic hardpoints, so cannot do 4 UAC5, Black widow definately can but with endo structure, no engine ammo or armor you have 28 tons spare, a 200 standard engine and the required 2 heatsinks gives you DWF type speed and a bit short of 17 tons for ammo and armor, so you would be lacking in one or the other

Sorry. Should have mentioned "AC20" in the K2's case, which takes the same crit slot space as 2 UAC5s (last I knew). My bad on that and thanks for the catch.

[DavidStarr]

Tesunie, on 24 December 2016 - 02:48 PM, said:

Yen-lo-wang is reasonably good

It's placed very low on the MetaMechs tier list (possibly because the base chassis wasn't great to begin with?).

[Tesunie]

DavidStarr, on 25 December 2016 - 02:26 AM, said:

It's placed very low on the MetaMechs tier list (possibly because the base chassis wasn't great to begin with?).

Don't let the Metamechs tier list make your choices for you... But what really happened is that the Centurion chassis took a hit a while ago when it's hit boxes got adjusted (okay, a long while ago). It use to have much larger arm hit boxes, to the point where if you placed a Std engine into the chassis, it practically couldn't be killed. It was so much easier to take it's legs than ever consider taking it's CT. No joke.

Now? Now it's just "a nice mech" that performs reasonably well. If you can utilize it well and twist damage, it can rock. If you don't or you have a clever opponent that is willing to take a few shots to time their own shots well... Yeah. It can die easily. It's also a medium mech, in a "heavies are the meta" meta. So, that's two strikes against it.

People may disagree with me, but "meta" and "comp-players" look for things that are easy to use and most effective for their ease of use. (This is not saying that they look only for the easiest to use, but...) An example of this is how many meta mechs are created. They typically all boat the same weapon and almost exclusively a single weapon type. This is easier to play than a mixed build, but mixed builds have their own strengths. They praise mechs that can shift damage around easily, the easier the better it ranks. Then it looks for weapon mounts that are as high as possible, to make shooting over terrain as easy as possible.

Much of that has good reason for being such a consideration. Being easy to use is also not a bad thing. But the statement stands, they are looking for the maximum performance with the minimum hindrance.

This doesn't mean that Metamechs or even "the meta" are bad nor is it wrong. However, sometimes you should just try out your own thing. In the case of the Yen-lo-wang, if you loved the Centurion Chassis, it's a different flavor of that chassis that plays differently than it's other brethren. A big gun backed up my lasers and very fast moving. Even the AH is different from it, and that's the closest comparison to the Yen-lo-wang. That difference has made it a terror on the battlefield for a long time, and it can still perform well for those who know how to use it.


I admit, when it comes to Heroes though, I don't have much information. I've fought against them, but I don't really own any (I only have 2 actual heroes). They have always kinda been a "they would be nice to have, but I don't 'need' them to do well", which is exactly what they should be. (I've always wanted the X5 because I use to love my Cicadas, but I never found I needed it. It just would have been something different to add to my Cicada line of mechs. On the other hand, I may have one time loved my Stalker 3F, but the Misery never really appealed to me, even now when it's ranked as a better mech in the game.)

Heroes are not suppose to be the best of their chassis, only something that is "different" but of equal power to the rest. In this, I think PGI has stayed true to themselves and done very well. None of the Heroes are "must have", but many of them are still "very nice to have". Most of the time, I think people buy the Heroes because they loved the Chassis before hand, and they want that "something different".

[S 0 L E N Y A]

Blackwidow is all about 2 AC5s and 2 UAC5s.
If you want 4x Uac5s then you need a KingCrab or Mauler.