575 replies to this topic

[Donas]

I'd be interested in seeing what everyone else's accuracy percentage is with streaks. Mine is around 60%. That, combined with their low damage, the amount of hardpoints they need to make them effective in a salvo, the fact that 2ECM mechs in the vicinity can effectively neutralize my BAP and make lockon darned near impossible, the fact that they can't be dumbfired, difficulty in aquiring and holding lock against skilled light pilots in the first place, is why I generally don't take them. My medium laser accuracy is MUCH higher, and so I use those to attack lights.

I'm guessing that this is Pickup Game issue largely, and thats why I don't see it anymore. Since getting in with a group of folks that four-man almost exclusively, and 12-man often, I just don't see unsupported light mechs suiscouting very much. And if I do, I don't see them for long because they are quickly and horribly handled by a lance that may or may not include some type of light hunter attached to it.

The concept of having light hunting mechs that are effective is in the same neighborhood as a wolfpack of jenners or similar mechs swarming and annihilating a couple assaults. If an atlas finds itself in that position its the atlas pilot's fault for getting away from its support.

Interestingly enough, when I'm in a heavy or assault mech, spotting a Jenner gets my attention FAR more seriously than spotting a Kintaro.

Edited by Donas, 03 October 2013 - 05:42 AM.

[Mister Blastman]

Zyllos, on 02 October 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

SSRMs should be set back to 2.0. Never really understood why they were placed to 2.5.

... and the normal SRM should be put to 2.5 making it useful again--well, that and fix the hit detection for them.

[Kunae]

Mr 144, on 03 October 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

Perception-wise...Lights bring this kind of thing on themselves...FotM HitReg/LagShield/Hitbox/ECM/Streaks/whatever insta-migration...coupled with the 4-man 'wolf-pack' mentality quite a goodly number of groups partake in....all breeds a lack of sympathy towards the mosquito swarm, no matter how based on facts the argument is. There is no other wieght class that has had a consistent go-to bugged easy-mode chassis/variant. You reap what you sow

The only one who has sewn this is PGI. At times, it almost seems like they are purposefully making lights an irritation to other players.

Removal of knockdowns was the prime start if this. The buffing of streaks, although it was done in response to the proliferation of lights after the knockdown removal, actually made it worse, as it helped precipitate the addition of ECM, which made ECM-Streak-lights capable of easily taking down assaults with little risk.

Then the various hit-reg problems with Ravens, and now Spiders, and they've made a ton of people just pissed at lights.

This is on PGI's head, not the players.

Cybermech, on 03 October 2013 - 05:39 AM, said:

right, so I'm guna go get a kintaro and place down lots of streaks.
I have done the same with a spider with 1xerppc and will proceed not to use skill unlocks.
If it is in a great position on the field I will not need skill unlocks to preform.

If I had any free mech-bays, I would get streak-kints too. Same thing I did back when they uber-buffed streaks in Nov '12... abuse the mechanic til PGI fixes it.

Mister Blastman, on 03 October 2013 - 05:42 AM, said:

... and the normal SRM should be put to 2.5 making it useful again--well, that and fix the hit detection for them.

Fixing hit-det and the spread-pattern for normal SRMs is really key. For a brief period after they put SRMs back to 2.0, they were actually useful again... then the HSR problems got a ton worse, the next patch.

[Mr 144]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 05:47 AM, said:

The only one who has sewn this is PGI. At times, it almost seems like they are purposefully making lights an irritation to other players.

Removal of knockdowns was the prime start if this. The buffing of streaks, although it was done in response to the proliferation of lights after the knockdown removal, actually made it worse, as it helped precipitate the addition of ECM, which made ECM-Streak-lights capable of easily taking down assaults with little risk.

Then the various hit-reg problems with Ravens, and now Spiders, and they've made a ton of people just pissed at lights.

This is on PGI's head, not the players.

Oh true enough, but perseption-wise, who really cares who's to blame when you're swarmed by a 4-man wolf-pack running for lulz with whichever is the borked light of the month. The simple truth is, most have been groomed to despise lights...not for lack of skill...but for blatant exploitation of PGI's ineptitude. The pendulum swings in light-killers favor...everyone cries Hooray! not balance this now please.

[Kunae]

Donas, on 03 October 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

I'd be interested in seeing what everyone else's accuracy percentage is with streaks. Mine is around 60%. That, combined with their low damage, the amount of hardpoints they need to make them effective in a salvo, the fact that 2ECM mechs in the vicinity can effectively neutralize my BAP and make lockon darned near impossible, the fact that they can't be dumbfired, difficulty in aquiring and holding lock against skilled light pilots in the first place, is why I generally don't take them. My medium laser accuracy is MUCH higher, and so I use those to attack lights.

I'm guessing that this is Pickup Game issue largely, and thats why I don't see it anymore. Since getting in with a group of folks that four-man almost exclusively, and 12-man often, I just don't see unsupported light mechs suiscouting very much. And if I do, I don't see them for long because they are quickly and horribly handled by a lance that may or may not include some type of light hunter attached to it.

Yep, this is primarily a solo-dropping pug, issue. Although, depending on how the game plays out, it can become an issue when dropping with 1-3 other mechs, as well.

Donas, on 03 October 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

The concept of having light hunting mechs that are effective is in the same neighborhood as a wolfpack of jenners or similar mechs swarming and annihilating a couple assaults. If an atlas finds itself in that position its the atlas pilot's fault for getting away from its support.

If someone wants to make a light-hunting mech, that's great! The problem is streaks, not that concept. You can make a very effective light hunter out of any faster medium, with the right load-out of lasers/ballistics/SRMs.

Streaks are a skill-less crutch.

Donas, on 03 October 2013 - 05:40 AM, said:

Interestingly enough, when I'm in a heavy or assault mech, spotting a Jenner gets my attention FAR more seriously than spotting a Kintaro.

As it should. Streaks aren't really a threat to heavies and assaults.

Being attacked by a single Jenner isn't a death sentence, though. You can still kill them, if you know what you're doing. You only need to hit them once, typically, with your main weapons, to either make them run, or kill them.

[Blacksoul1987]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It really depends on what Elo you're playing at.

At most Elo's, yes, a well played light can be a real terror. This is more due to the players being unable to hit faster moving targets with lasers and ballistics, than the mech itself.

At higher Elo's, where people have learned to hit fast targets, it's much more difficult.

For this to be fixed, we need knockdowns back in, not some no-skill crutch, which SSRMs are.

well no way of knowing what ELO I play at in this game but I was an Ace in MW4 played in league games and constantly fought trials with high winrates and Earned bloodnames and rank in every clan I was a part of. Now I just Pug I don't really have a problem killing lights I just hate how easy it is to drop the largest assault mechs with 4-5 weapon cycles in even medium mechs but lights no way. I've seen people post their hit rates saying how easy it is for them to crack lights and my hit rates tend to be higher than a lot of theirs I guess its a matter of perspective. I don't think lights are overpowered but I just don't like the idea of anime styled ninja mechs and seriously i'm not kidding the scaling is completely borked if you assume that the spider is proper scale then that would make an atlas like 400-500 tons that's just wrong.

[Kunae]

Mr 144, on 03 October 2013 - 05:51 AM, said:

Oh true enough, but perseption-wise, who really cares who's to blame when you're swarmed by a 4-man wolf-pack running for lulz with whichever is the borked light of the month. The simple truth is, most have been groomed to despise lights...not for lack of skill...but for blatant exploitation of PGI's ineptitude. The pendulum swings in light-killers favor...everyone cries Hooray! not balance this now please.

This is the up-hill battle I've been fighting since OB started.

[Mister Blastman]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 05:32 AM, said:

It really depends on what Elo you're playing at.

At most Elo's, yes, a well played light can be a real terror. This is more due to the players being unable to hit faster moving targets with lasers and ballistics, than the mech itself.

At higher Elo's, where people have learned to hit fast targets, it's much more difficult.

For this to be fixed, we need knockdowns back in, not some no-skill crutch, which SSRMs are.

I think this is where there is so much disconnect in this thread.

Light mechs are a joke to a AC+PPC sniper or even a mech with an AC 20 on it. Highlander + PPCs murders lights in one to two shots. Cataphract does the same. There isn't even a contest. The light can potentially be dead in three to four seconds where the light would take much longer to take down the medium, heavy or assault. An AC 20 takes a little longer... okay, five seconds if you have perfect aim.

Don't think people don't! In super high ELO brackets the players are much different than the lower-tier. Stuff that works against regular people is suicidal against these players.

Edited by Mister Blastman, 03 October 2013 - 06:01 AM.

[-Muta-]

Ok that is against light mechs... but that is a brawl build which makes them useless in a long range fight

[Kunae]

Blacksoul1987, on 03 October 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

well no way of knowing what ELO I play at in this game but I was an Ace in MW4 played in league games and constantly fought trials with high winrates and Earned bloodnames and rank in every clan I was a part of. Now I just Pug I don't really have a problem killing lights I just hate how easy it is to drop the largest assault mechs with 4-5 weapon cycles in even medium mechs but lights no way. I've seen people post their hit rates saying how easy it is for them to crack lights and my hit rates tend to be higher than a lot of theirs I guess its a matter of perspective. I don't think lights are overpowered but I just don't like the idea of anime styled ninja mechs and seriously i'm not kidding the scaling is completely borked if you assume that the spider is proper scale then that would make an atlas like 400-500 tons that's just wrong.

No argument here. Their scaling is all borked up... seriously... Kints and QD's the same size, almost, as Atlases? Definitely the same size as Victors. Spiders teeny and spindly... and here's a locust...



It's going to be just as bad, or worse, than a spider.

[DyDrimer]

I run a Uber-buffed Streak-Kint and love it, I cant stand to be in a game and see a freaken 100ton Mech shaken in the corner as some spyder shreds its armor off. It gives me great joy to rack up 3-6 kills in a match of light mechs. But for it being uber? Really? When i have a stupid moment or bad luck and run into any thing with lasers and over 40 tons my uber statis ends fast. Thats why i pick my targets wisley, some thing more Light mechs should do, run up on me in my Streak kint alone or in a pack its game on, the pulse laser go for a second mech as the lock on the streaks work on the other.

There are a lot of things in this game that needs to be tweaked, so when its all "right" then i see it being OP, but right now with the herds of lights running in the game i dont see a problem.

[Kunae]

Mister Blastman, on 03 October 2013 - 05:54 AM, said:

I think this is where there is so much disconnect in this thread.

Light mechs are a joke to a AC+PPC sniper or even a mech with an AC 20 on it. Highlander + PPCs murders lights in one to two shots. Cataphract does the same. There isn't even a contest. The light can potentially be dead in three to four seconds where the light would take much longer to take down the medium or heavy. An AC 20 takes a little longer... okay, five seconds if you have perfect aim.

Don't think people don't! In super high ELO brackets the players are much different than the lower-tier. Stuff that works against regular people is suicidal against these players.

I've been tempted, at times, to make an alt acct just to prove this. I wouldn't doubt that there are some skilled players out there, who've done exactly that, just to "pwn noobs" in a light.

[Joseph Mallan]

If you stink in a higher Elo you will eventually stink once it catches up to your Alt. I did try this out, and it did not take long for me to die easily in lights.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 03 October 2013 - 06:05 AM.

[-Natural Selection-]

This thread just makes me smile . The 1st thread with lights not happy with damage taken vs the 99 unhappy about them not taking it. I feel like the Holidays came early. Thank you Santa! *to bad it wasn't from a hsr fix

[Kunae]

Dozier, on 03 October 2013 - 06:09 AM, said:

This thread just makes me smile . The 1st thread with lights not happy with damage taken vs the 99 unhappy about them not taking it. I feel like the Holidays came early. Thank you Santa! *to bad it wasn't from a hsr fix

This thread isn't about spiders with broken HSR/hit-boxes. Please don't bunch your hatred of spiders in with all lights.

[John Wolf]

Good Morning Everyone.

This has been a hot topic, but please remember to keep your comments constructive and focused on the topic itself, not the players. Constructive posts are welcome, insults are not.

Thanks everyone!

[Blacksoul1987]

anyway against me I can tell you that you should fear my right hook much more than the streaks I mount. my victor 9s mounts an AC/20 which I have an accuracy of 72.something % and 3 streak 2's which have an accuracy of 64.something%. i'm just tired of seeing all the light swarms and just bumrushing its just an issue in pug but that's all I play which is why i'm ANGRY!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! also the scaling bothers me immensely!

[Joseph Mallan]

I think Dozier has a point though. When Ravens and Jenners were the king Streaks put them in check, Now Spiders are having issues being hit an Streaks have them in check. If Hit Reg was working like it was in the beginning we would not need to load up so many SSRMs. It is one mostly for Light deterrence. I don't use SSRMs, but I do understand the desire to use 'em.

[Kunae]

Joseph Mallan, on 03 October 2013 - 06:20 AM, said:

I think Dozier has a point though. When Ravens and Jenners were the king Streaks put them in check, Now Spiders are having issues being hit an Streaks have them in check. If Hit Reg was working like it was in the beginning we would not need to load up so many SSRMs. It is one mostly for Light deterrence. I don't use SSRMs, but I do understand the desire to use 'em.

See, the problem with this line of thinking, is that it forces light-users into the exploitable builds that caused the problem in the first place. When you buff streaks to compensate for the broken hit-boxes/HSR on spiders, it makes it much worse on lights that don't have that "feature", who are already able to be hit by lasers and ballistics with little difficulty.

It punishes the non-broken mechs for PGI's not yet addressing the problem of 1 or 2 mech chassis.

Edited by Kunae, 03 October 2013 - 06:27 AM.

[Blacksoul1987]

I use the ssrms on the victor simply cause hitting light mechs reliably with regular srms is tricky and 2 medlas in left arm isn't really enough so 3ssrms seemed like the best bet for me to keep on trucking if I happen to lose my right arm