575 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

DocBach, on 03 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Drop the damage back to 2 a missile to bring them in line with standard SRM's. BOOM, SSRM balanced.

I am not sure I would call them "balanced", at that point, but at least they'd be closer to it.

It'd be worth testing
.

[DocBach]

4 damage spread out over a 'Mech for 1.5 tons. A medium laser gets you 5 damage spread out over time and isn't blockable by ECM or penalized with a lock time. I'd say it would be in line with other weapon systems near its weight.

[Wispsy]

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 11:48 AM, said:

Part of fighting as a good player is using your team and knowing where they are, also knowing your weaknesses. Your basically saying to me in this thread if a LBX-10x2 SRM 4x3 Atlas came at me with my Ilya Gauss x2 Medium Laser x3 and I killed him before he got into 500m then I need to get nerfed cause he should be able to rush me? No one mech is the best, or ever will be. If a ssrm boat came up to my atlas or my Ilya he would be dead before he even became a threat. It's not dumb to say you just didn't understand.

Well, I think you maybe need to learn English a little better, is it your second language? What you originally said, is as I have explained, very wrong, in the truest sense of the word...

Now, that is an interesting if slightly biased example...in such a scenario yes if a short range brawling Atlas with suboptimal weaponry came at you in the open field for 1000m and you killed him it does not mean you need to be nerfed. This is a fundamentally different scenario from a mech with very small amounts of armour taking guaranteed damage.

Why is it that lights, who have the smallest armour and the smallest amount of weaponry should be the only mech with a weapon dedicated to completely counter it that can be fitted, for inconsequential amounts of tonnage, on the majority of mechs?

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 11:52 AM, said:

Yeah so use the pugs to your advantage. I snipe and use them as bait. Added bonus I get a savior kill. Sometimes I get steam rolled but it's the game you play when you spin the wheel in the pug machine.

Yes except why would these lighthunters that I am meant to be avoiding and now using my pugs as bait for attack the Atlas walking into a wall instead of focusing on the Jenner running round with no ECM to hide his position every time he wants to get a little damage off on somebody.
Oh
You think all lights should turn sniper?


Look you think this is all random people who play lights wanting light buffs because they are too strong?
You do not even want to know my Assault mech stats....
I maintain a 3 w/l ratio on my spiders whilst pugging more then I group.
I feel right now this is quite good.
My Assault stats dwarf this...it is not even funny, it is not even close to close. My kill/death ratio for my Assaults is 3 times higher then my kill/death ratio on my lights, my win/loss is more then 3x greater.

I am primarily a light mech pilot. I have literally played 10,000 games since I joined closed beta in Jenners. I believe you can influence a game in a light mech and I am very practiced at doing so.

But stats do not lie, I am clearly far more useful in an Assault even though I rarely play them and am nowhere near up to the same standard skillwise. My heavies are also much more useful then my lights causing me to win far more games.

All this thread is asking is that the most ineffective mech weight (well mediums can make a case here...) not be the only one to have a hard counter weapon costing low tonnage and mountable on the majority of chassis.

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

He already has a defeatist attitude and his true intintions have been revealed. He wants to run a light mech that has no weaknesses, that can brawl against assaults, and carry pug teams like the god pilot he thinks he is. He wants to drop on the map go 12/0 and claim he's the best of the pugs.

I can't wait for collisions to come back. The true good lights will shine then not the babies I see proclaiming self greatness in these forums. Private matches will settle a lot of this who's a noob {Scrap} in the future till then. Keep asking people what their wait time is for matching to stoke that false ELO epeen theory you all have going about matchmaking wait times.

Lol....

after saying that light pilots should be able to fight light hunters, then saying you fight them by running away, you now switch to insulting my skill as the reason SSRMs are too strong against lights?

[Ngamok]

Kunae, on 03 October 2013 - 12:23 PM, said:

I am not sure I would call them "balanced", at that point, but at least they'd be closer to it.

It'd be worth testing
.

It's what I would do. Because you know if SSRM4 or SSRM6 were in right now, there is no way they'd be 2.5 damage.

[DemonRaziel]

Ngamok, on 03 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

It's what I would do. Because you know if SSRM4 or SSRM6 were in right now, there is no way they'd be 2.5 damage.

Hopefuly

[Krivvan]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

But stats do not lie, I am clearly far more useful in an Assault even though I rarely play them and am nowhere near up to the same standard skillwise. My heavies are also much more useful then my lights causing me to win far more games.

I admit that I'm coming from an uncommon viewpoint in that I am very bad at Heavies and Assault compared to Lights. I personally am many times more able to influence a game in my light than a Heavy and Assault.

Seriously, me in a Heavy or Assault is comically bad newbie just picking up a trial mech level.

[Adiuvo]

It's confirmed, Krivvan is a weirdo.

Anyway I have the same experience as Wispsy. My KD and W/L is my 733C is basically double that of my Jenner, despite me being nowhere near a top assault pilot and mainly pugging with that thing.

Assaults/heavies can tank. Lights can't against anyone competent.

Edited by Adiuvo, 03 October 2013 - 12:40 PM.

[Wispsy]

Krivvan, on 03 October 2013 - 12:34 PM, said:

I admit that I'm coming from an uncommon viewpoint in that I am very bad at Heavies and Assault compared to Lights. I personally am many times more able to influence a game in my light than a Heavy and Assault.

Seriously, me in a Heavy or Assault is comically bad newbie just picking up a trial mech level.

Well yes a basic ability to aim is required

If you played 100 matches in one then it would be a different story.

Edit: I bet you put LBX's on them...

Edited by Wispsy, 03 October 2013 - 12:41 PM.

[Krivvan]

Adiuvo, on 03 October 2013 - 12:37 PM, said:

It's confirmed, Krivvan is a weirdo.

I'm relatively satisfied with ghost heat. I use 5 jump jets on my Jenners. I use small lasers. I do better in a mech the lighter it is. I believe streaks are very close to being a very exciting movement (rather than aiming) skill based weapon.

Ok yeah, maybe I am a bit of a weirdo.

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 12:39 PM, said:

Well yes a basic ability to aim is required

If you played 100 matches in one then it would be a different story.

You're right. I'm at several thousand Jenner games (not including closed beta, which was likely the same number of games) and sub 150 heavy and assault games.

And my aim seems to get better the more shaky and chaotic my screen is. I'm just so bored in heavies and assaults that I shoot at imaginary targets behind my opponents.

Edited by Krivvan, 03 October 2013 - 12:42 PM.

[Wispsy]

Krivvan, on 03 October 2013 - 12:41 PM, said:

And my aim seems to get better the more shaky and chaotic my screen is.

Maybe one day you will stop using luck as your go to aiming strategy :/

[Krivvan]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Maybe one day you will stop using luck as your go to aiming strategy :/

I have loaded dice?

[Imperius]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 12:31 PM, said:

Well, I think you maybe need to learn English a little better, is it your second language? What you originally said, is as I have explained, very wrong, in the truest sense of the word...

Now, that is an interesting if slightly biased example...in such a scenario yes if a short range brawling Atlas with suboptimal weaponry came at you in the open field for 1000m and you killed him it does not mean you need to be nerfed. This is a fundamentally different scenario from a mech with very small amounts of armour taking guaranteed damage.

Why is it that lights, who have the smallest armour and the smallest amount of weaponry should be the only mech with a weapon dedicated to completely counter it that can be fitted, for inconsequential amounts of tonnage, on the majority of mechs?



Yes except why would these lighthunters that I am meant to be avoiding and now using my pugs as bait for attack the Atlas walking into a wall instead of focusing on the Jenner running round with no ECM to hide his position every time he wants to get a little damage off on somebody.
Oh
You think all lights should turn sniper?


Look you think this is all random people who play lights wanting light buffs because they are too strong?
You do not even want to know my Assault mech stats....
I maintain a 3 w/l ratio on my spiders whilst pugging more then I group.
I feel right now this is quite good.
My Assault stats dwarf this...it is not even funny, it is not even close to close. My kill/death ratio for my Assaults is 3 times higher then my kill/death ratio on my lights, my win/loss is more then 3x greater.

I am primarily a light mech pilot. I have literally played 10,000 games since I joined closed beta in Jenners. I believe you can influence a game in a light mech and I am very practiced at doing so.

But stats do not lie, I am clearly far more useful in an Assault even though I rarely play them and am nowhere near up to the same standard skillwise. My heavies are also much more useful then my lights causing me to win far more games.

All this thread is asking is that the most ineffective mech weight (well mediums can make a case here...) not be the only one to have a hard counter weapon costing low tonnage and mountable on the majority of chassis.




Lol....

after saying that light pilots should be able to fight light hunters, then saying you fight them by running away, you now switch to insulting my skill as the reason SSRMs are too strong against lights?

My English is fine and your argument is a strawman at best. Part of fighting is knowing when to RUN, and how to avoid of getting into a situation that warrants a death. If I allow a shotgun atlas to walk up on me and he kills me the last thing I should do is whine on the forums that shotguns need to be nerfed because I died from them. I need to evaluate why the atlas got so close to me without my knowledge. Failure of my lights giving me needed information on positions (maybe?). Whole team got steam rolled cause I got the short straw ELO roll on my pug team? I wasn't paying attention? Many different reason.

There is nothing wrong with SSRM's. Next week you'll cry shotguns wreak too much havoc on lights and they need a nerf too.

Here I have the grand solution for you. NERF all weapons to 1 damage, the same fire rate, same weight, and distance. The only difference is the visual appearence of the gun and round fired. Then we can all play wiffelbat warrior online. Oh all mechs should run at the same speed and all have the same hit boxes.

Edited by Imperius, 03 October 2013 - 12:54 PM.

[Wispsy]

Imperius, on 03 October 2013 - 12:51 PM, said:

My English is fine and your argument is a strawman at best. Part of fighting is knowing when to RUN, and how to avoid of getting into a situation that warrants a death.

A shotgun atlas has a way of fighting back.
My argument is not strawman, you are just trying to ignore it.

Shotguns do not wreak too much havoc on light mechs, they have to be aimed.

Reading comprehension is important. Please get some. Bad mechanic is bad mechanic, even more so when doing too much damage, especially when it is only useful on the weaker mech classes.

Edited by Wispsy, 03 October 2013 - 01:07 PM.

[Otto Cannon]

DEMAX51, on 03 October 2013 - 11:44 AM, said:

PEEF (left DV8, by the way?) makes an excellent point that Streaks are the ONLY weapon in the game that are stronger against certain 'Mech types than others. There is also a very large disconnect between the skill required to use SSRMs and the reward from their use (still a low-risk, high-reward weapon). Why must we have specific "Light-killer" weapons? Their inclusion completely invalidates the fact that Lights rely on speed and maneuverability to survive. If we are going to have weapons that are significantly better against certain 'Mechs, where is the "armor-piercing" weapon that we can use to put a hurtin' on heavily armored Assault 'Mechs?

That's easy to answer, Peef was wrong.

Streaks do puny spread damage but are hard to avoid, therefore better against lights. Assault mechs can ignore the damage.

LRMs do good potential damage for their weight and mostly hit torsos but are easy to avoid, therefore better against slow heavy armoured mechs. Light mechs can completely avoid damage by moving fast.

[PEEFsmash]

Wispsy, on 03 October 2013 - 12:42 PM, said:

Maybe one day you will stop using luck as your go to aiming strategy :/

This is Battletech based game. Luck is the ultimate aiming strategy, and MWO needs to be more luck based because...yeah. Dice.

Otto Cannon, on 03 October 2013 - 01:06 PM, said:

That's easy to answer, Peef was wrong.

Streaks do puny spread damage but are hard to avoid, therefore better against lights. Assault mechs can ignore the damage.

Did you seriously just say "Peef was wrong" then proceed to rephrase my exact point and agree with it?

[Sephlock]

DocBach, on 03 October 2013 - 12:22 PM, said:

Drop the damage back to 2 a missile to bring them in line with standard SRM's. BOOM, SSRMs useless even when boated.

PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Did you seriously just say "Peef was wrong" then proceed to rephrase my exact point and agree with it?

No Peef, you're wrong. He simply stated that you were mistaken and then went on to use different wording to express precisely what you stated, and then expressed his assent with that sentiment.

[-Natural Selection-]

I have a couple questions for some of you.

What are your ELO scores?

Where are the ladders, leaderboards, and player rankings for your "top level" competitions listed? I am interested in the tournament outline you follow. Would be cool to see some of the game stats and battle logs from some of those events.

I mean you are all in a league that keeps track of all this correct?

Edited by Dozier, 03 October 2013 - 01:16 PM.

[Ngamok]

Dozier, on 03 October 2013 - 01:13 PM, said:

I have a couple questions for some of you.

What are your ELO scores?

Where are the ladders, leaderboards, and player rankings for your "top level" competitions listed? I am interested in the tournament outline you follow. Would be cool to see some of the game stats and battle logs from some of those events.

I am guessing mine is over 9000. Might be close.

[Otto Cannon]

PEEFsmash, on 03 October 2013 - 01:08 PM, said:

Did you seriously just say "Peef was wrong" then proceed to rephrase my exact point and agree with it?

Er, no.

I was responding to this by DEMAX51: "PEEF (left DV8, by the way?) makes an excellent point that Streaks are the ONLY weapon in the game that are stronger against certain 'Mech types than others."

My point was that LRMs are also 'stronger against certain mech types', not only SSRM as you were quoted as saying.

[Asakara]

DocBach, on 03 October 2013 - 12:27 PM, said:

4 damage spread out over a 'Mech for 1.5 tons. A medium laser gets you 5 damage spread out over time and isn't blockable by ECM or penalized with a lock time. I'd say it would be in line with other weapon systems near its weight.

It is not just 1.5 tons, but 2.5 tons minimum due to the need for at least 1 ton of ammo. An additional 1.5 tons for BAP to make sure they work around ECM mechs is not mandatory but highly recommended.

So my 2 x SSRM2 launchers on my Jenner-D currently do 10 damage spread out in 2.5 damage increments all over an enemy mech every 3.5 seconds or so. They cost me 5.5 tons for 25 salvos (for launchers, ammo, and BAP). They have a 270m hard range cap, and can be shot down by AMS.


On the other hand my 4 x Medium Lasers currently do 20 damage which can be pin-point or spread every 3.5 seconds or so. They cost me 4 tons for unlimited shots. They have an effective range of 270m with a max range of 540m and are not affected by ECM or AMS.