So The Clans From A Balance Standpoint (Oh Yeah I'm Going Here)
#21
Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:54 AM
Not mixing tech <too much> would seem a good start, as would 10 v 12 or a variation that theme.. but really its going to be down to how much or preferably how little tech they let be swapped between clanners and the innersphere players
#22
Posted 07 October 2013 - 09:56 AM
#23
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:00 AM
#24
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:02 AM
DerSpecht, on 07 October 2013 - 10:00 AM, said:
That's the spirit!
I don't like XXL engines, though, too many crits and generate extra heat on movement. And let's not mention the price tag.
#25
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:07 AM
#26
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:13 AM
Almond Brown, on 07 October 2013 - 10:07 AM, said:
According to the timeline we shouldnt have Artemis / Armor upgrades,ER PPCs, ER Lasers and double heatsinks and shoulndt be able to aim further than 600 meters. Now what sherlock?
#27
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:16 AM
#28
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:32 AM
If you increase the winnings significantly enough for IS people will play it to drop the grind times down. Especially if clan tech is going to cost a small fortune.
#29
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:36 AM
DerSpecht, on 07 October 2013 - 10:13 AM, said:
According to the timeline we shouldnt have Artemis / Armor upgrades,ER PPCs, ER Lasers and double heatsinks and shoulndt be able to aim further than 600 meters. Now what sherlock?
You just can't help but be a "douche" can you dude?
sigh. See post below yours... Sherlock.
Edited by Almond Brown, 07 October 2013 - 10:37 AM.
#30
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:42 AM
Joseph Mallan, on 07 October 2013 - 10:16 AM, said:
Jo, since you're a TT buff without being a disagreeable grognard...
How much of an issue would it really be for you if the Inner Sphere mechs got access to their versions of weapon variants they've not got fully expanded yet in time for Clan introduction? ER medium and small lasers, full range of LB-X and UAC and SSRM4/6 is what I'm talking about (don't think I've missed anything). I'm aware there's something of a timeline lag, but we're well off the 1:1 track now, and I really see it benefiting the game to introduce the full variety in the name of both logic and balance. But I'm a MW2 vet, not a TT vet so...I dunno. Would it be a dealbreaker to fudge it that little bit?
#31
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:48 AM
I think Clan tech will be better, but the heat will burn them alive. There aren't enough slots on a mech to make 4 ERPPC cool with 1.4DHS. (With a 400XL and all standard components, a Makasari with 4 ERPPC could fit 10 engine DHS + 21 external DHS. Heat Generation per Second = 15, Dissipation per Second = 4.94).
#32
Posted 07 October 2013 - 10:51 AM
Gaan Cathal, on 07 October 2013 - 10:42 AM, said:
Jo, since you're a TT buff without being a disagreeable grognard...
How much of an issue would it really be for you if the Inner Sphere mechs got access to their versions of weapon variants they've not got fully expanded yet in time for Clan introduction? ER medium and small lasers, full range of LB-X and UAC and SSRM4/6 is what I'm talking about (don't think I've missed anything). I'm aware there's something of a timeline lag, but we're well off the 1:1 track now, and I really see it benefiting the game to introduce the full variety in the name of both logic and balance. But I'm a MW2 vet, not a TT vet so...I dunno. Would it be a dealbreaker to fudge it that little bit?
Some I'm fine with some not. Things like the Medium ERs I don't care, but the Ultra 20 for the IS... well as long as it was "slightly" inferior I could see coming slightly after meeting the Clans. Same with the LB-X. Clans are supposed to be ahead of us to start. They are the Boogiemen, come to steal our children in their sleep. Timeline wise, The 10th Lyran Guards have served the Falcons their first defeat already. So some Clan Tech could be being studied already.
Edited by Joseph Mallan, 07 October 2013 - 10:53 AM.
#33
Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:19 AM
Joseph Mallan, on 07 October 2013 - 10:51 AM, said:
My logic is that these
Artgathan, on 07 October 2013 - 10:48 AM, said:
Inner Sphere factions (merc corps) shouldn't have access to Clan Technology. What works for a Tabletop Wargame does not necessarily work for an FPS, and IMO this is one of those things. If you keep two factions entirely distinct, you can achieve asymmetric balance. If you allow any bleedthrough then you have to assume every Inner Sphere player is in a mech entirely kitted out with Clan tech, meaning that the only difference is the shape of their mechs, which would be a greater disservice to the setting than disallowing technology transfer.
Edited by Gaan Cathal, 07 October 2013 - 11:19 AM.
#34
Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:20 AM
I simply do not see PGI creating some convoluted, wonky, absurd 8 v 12 type of setup for a match..
Do you know what 8 v 12 will do..?? It will tell players that Clan Tech is so much better than IS tech, and at that point nobody will want to run IS tech if it is indeed that much more inferior to Clan Tech Weapons...
EXAMPLE: If they release a Clan Weapon that has the same heat as it's IS counterpart, BUT it has twice the range, and hits harder, then be sure that everyone that can do so will dump the IS weapon counterpart in a split second.
EXAMPLE: If they release a Clan Mech that has a distinct speed advantage, and also lets just say for the sake of argument it also has an XL engine that doesn't stick out into the side torso, them be sure that everyone will dump their coutner part IS Mech in favor of the Clan Mech..
We have already seen what weapons with balance changes that have affected the choice of weapons that MWO players run.
EXAMPLE: When the LRM apocalypse happened, everyone and their cousins ran LRMs. When PPCs were changed, everyone and their brother grabbed a PPC weapon. ETC, ETC, ETC, ETC...
So do you think Clan Tech and Mechs will be so much better then IS Tech and Mechs as to make ALL of the IS mechs we have bought up until now useless..?? Not likely, that would be a bad business decision, they want CUSTOMERS to feel like they have a wide variety of viable, and valuable mechs that can compete with Clan Tech and Mechs, or that will make almost every IS mech instantly worthless/useless.
The smart money would predict that Clan Tech will be on par with IS tech, and that all weapons systems will be available to all mechs.. 10 v 12 wouldn't be a big deal, but 8 v 12 would be a red flag...
If Clan Tech isn't better than IS tech, then no reason for wonky 8 v 12 or even 10 v 12.
Edited by Odins Fist, 07 October 2013 - 11:21 AM.
#35
Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:37 AM
Odins Fist, on 07 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:
I simply do not see PGI creating some convoluted, wonky, absurd 8 v 12 type of setup for a match..
Do you know what 8 v 12 will do..?? It will tell players that Clan Tech is so much better than IS tech, and at that point nobody will want to run IS tech if it is indeed that much more inferior to Clan Tech Weapons...
Plenty of very good competitive games have used asymmetric balance, often to great effect.
#36
Posted 07 October 2013 - 11:56 AM
you to keep in mind, that you will run out of opponents pretty soon..
Because the same thing will happen, as it was back when the clans were introduced in TT.
Suddenly everyone wanted to play clans, for it was sooooo easy to win against even good IS players, just
because the clan mechs were so overpowered, that u actually didnt have to be a good tactician...
So I dont know HOW PGI is gonna take care of that balancing problem, but for me its obvious that they HAVE
to get away from the lore...otherwise there will be just clans vs clans matches.
#37
Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:08 PM
Your conjecture is equally helpful.
#38
Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:10 PM
i don't know how good this system would work in practice but in theory it sounds pretty solid, to me anyway.
#40
Posted 07 October 2013 - 12:29 PM
Quote
Yes they do. Theres clan mechs that use standard engines.
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