164 replies to this topic

[Mr 144]

Gaan Cathal, on 10 October 2013 - 06:32 PM, said:

I'm feeling chivalrous here so.... it cancels out ECM within 150m. That means if an ECM mech can keep outside of 150m of you, your SRRMs are cheesy dead weight, as opposed to cheesy 0.5-damage-per-missile-too-much.

Although the combination of BAP + Advanced Sensor Module increases that to 250m....so Oh noes...20m of ECM

[Khobai]

Quote

A Kintaro with Streaks and BAP is a rock. Light mechs are scissors.

That may be true. But the problem is EVERYTHING else is paper.

And if you want to boat streaks, its hard to justify taking Kintaro over a Streakcat, IMO.

No doubt the Kintaro is probably better at killing lights. But IMO the streakcat is still the outright better of the two. Jumpjets let the streakcat fight more than just lights. You can take down other heavies and assaults and use jumpjets to greatly mitigate damage or prevent yourself from even being hittable. Not that either is very good, but if I had to choose, id go with the Streakcat.

Edited by Khobai, 11 October 2013 - 07:27 PM.

[FupDup]

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

That may be true. But the problem s EVERYTHING else is paper.

Blackjacks are scissors, too; in fact a Streaktaro can dispatch them dramatically faster than Commandos due to how SSRMs target the BJ's torsos so often over other body parts. Mediums in general as well as Dragons tend to be other rocks. Heavies and assaults at full health are certainly an issue, but 116 kph is more than enough speed to stay away from anyone you can't take alone. Against heavies and assaults you can still be a very passable support brawler (as in, you have teammates around) in that you can use volley-fired Streaks to shake up the enemy's aim, use your speed and hitboxes to tank a lot of damage for your buddies, and/or just deal some supportive damage (especially to areas that the enemy is trying to hide from your buddies).

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

And if you want to boat streaks, its hard to justify taking Kintaro over a Streakcat, IMO.

The Streakcat only gains 1 extra SSRM and JJs. The Kintaro has the advantages of:
A. Energy weapons, which let you be useful beyond 270 meters and if the enemy has ECM spam.
B. Better hitboxes/you're not a walking CT, you can spread damage more effectively and survive dramatically longer than a Catapult ever could hope for
C. Very fast speed of 116 kph lets you perform the light and medium hunting role far more effectively (and helps with damage spreading), and lets you run from heavies and assaults better than a Streakcat could (which goes only like 86 or less).
D. Can zombie with side torso and center torso weapons after its arms have been blown off (this happens VERY often if not almost every match).

Edited by FupDup, 10 October 2013 - 07:52 PM.

[Wilhelm Fraek]

FupDup, on 10 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

Blackjacks are scissors, too; in fact a Streaktaro can dispatch them dramatically faster than Commandos. Mediums in general as well as Dragons tend to be other rocks. Heavies and assaults at full health are certainly an issue, but 116 kph is more than enough speed to stay away from anyone you can't take alone. Against heavies and assaults you can still be a very passable support brawler in that you can use volley-fired Streaks to shake up the enemy's aim, use your speed and hitboxes to tank a lot of damage for your buddies, and just deal some supportive damage.

except spiders and jenners dont avoid heavies or assault they run right at them take a large amount of hits, spiders are on a regular basis one of the only mechs i see where the damage is spread perfectly on all the hitboxes.This seems right to you?

what is the point of taking an "assault mech" when 1 light can harrass us to the point of having back against a wall just to take it on. Its so far out that most of the time lights dont even scout they just jump in and out of the brawl without a care in the world. So if everything is working as intended and lights are fine why did the spider population jump before it was even made a trial mech?

If lights are going to stay this way some changes have to happen,
1 - heat affects the speed of the mech,

2 - restricted hardpoints

Also the argument of why would people want to take lights? well look at any other game that has classes, each has a role and people pick them for those reasons, the lights in this game might as well be some sort of hawken rip off.

When i was using my hunchback 4g I would much rather pick a fight with an atlas or other large mechs then lights because the hitboxes and game function properly I didnt have to try and track a warping light with JJ.

[Gaan Cathal]

Mr 144, on 10 October 2013 - 07:06 PM, said:

Although the combination of BAP + Advanced Sensor Module increases that to 250m....so Oh noes...20m of ECM

I am constantly amazed by the number of Streaktaros that fail to have this.

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

And if you want to boat streaks, its hard to justify taking Kintaro over a Streakcat, IMO.

Now that they don't home-to-CT for cheap 2-volley kills, the A1 is just far too slow to hunt lights with SSRMs.

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

except spiders and jenners dont avoid heavies or assault they run right at them take a large amount of hits, spiders are on a regular basis one of the only mechs i see where the damage is spread perfectly on all the hitboxes.This seems right to you?

Emphasis mine.

Sorry, what? The Jenner is a Centre Torso on legs. They're so easy to put down they'd be borderline underpowered for lights if it wasn't for going at speed cap with the highest light mech payload you can get. If you're in anything with ballistics and medium lasers and you can't ever kill a Jenner that just runs right at you then the problem isn't the Jenner, sorry.

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

When i was using my hunchback 4g I would much rather pick a fight with an atlas or other large mechs then lights because the hitboxes and game function properly I didnt have to try and track a warping light with JJ.

What build is that HBK-4G? And what's your Ping/FPS usually like?

Edited by Gaan Cathal, 10 October 2013 - 07:31 PM.

[FupDup]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:23 PM, said:

except spiders and jenners dont avoid heavies or assault they run right at them take a large amount of hits, spiders are on a regular basis one of the only mechs i see where the damage is spread perfectly on all the hitboxes.This seems right to you?

what is the point of taking an "assault mech" when 1 light can harrass us to the point of having back against a wall just to take it on. Its so far out that most of the time lights dont even scout they just jump in and out of the brawl without a care in the world. So if everything is working as intended and lights are fine why did the spider population jump before it was even made a trial mech?

If lights are going to stay this way some changes have to happen,
1 - heat affects the speed of the mech,

2 - restricted hardpoints

Also the argument of why would people want to take lights? well look at any other game that has classes, each has a role and people pick them for those reasons, the lights in this game might as well be some sort of hawken rip off.

When i was using my hunchback 4g I would much rather pick a fight with an atlas or other large mechs then lights because the hitboxes and game function properly I didnt have to try and track a warping light with JJ.

Lights who try to run up to my team's heavies and assaults die. Violently. Or at the very least, they take heavy damage and have to retreat before getting finished off. Seriously, the Streaktaro is a hard-counter to light mechs. Load one up with as many SSRMs and ML as you can fit, BAP, and a big XL engine (350+), and have at it. It's like slaughtering puppies.

Edited by FupDup, 10 October 2013 - 07:29 PM.

[Xeno Phalcon]

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

That may be true. But the problem is EVERYTHING else is paper.

And if you want to boat streaks, its hard to justify taking Kintaro over a Streakcat, IMO.

Justification comes in the form of 110kph and lack of big easily shot off ears (Though my left arm gets busted off ALOT too)

[Wilhelm Fraek]

So the counter to lights is 1 mech......


everything else is meat i guess welcome to lightwarrior

Edited by Wilhelm Fraek, 10 October 2013 - 07:33 PM.

[FupDup]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

So the counter to lights is 1 mech......


everything else is meat i guess welcome to lightwarrior

The Streaktaro is the most optimal counter, but it's not the only one by far. Pretty much any mech with SSRMs and lasers will give lights a hard time, and with good aim ballistics will really murder them too (I once saw a Gausscat kill 3-4 lights in one match, in one shot each).

[Gaan Cathal]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

So the counter to lights is 1 mech......


everything else is meat i guess welcome to lightwarrior

Hardly. The Streaktaro is the premier light-hunter. That makes it neither the only light-hunter, nor the only mech able to damage them. The lights I fight are rarely stupid enough to hang around once I've smacked them with a pair of LLs (quad ERLL Stalker) or (ER)PPCs (-K3+) but the ones that do tend to die if they're on their lonesome. Do I get taken out in my Cat or Stalker by Lights? Yes. Don't recall it ever being 1v1, mind. But if a Jenner gets into my damaged rear armour, I'm not ******** about him killing me, that's what they do. Same as when I'm in my RVN-3L and get tagged with a mass of lasers, I get the hell out of there with my (smoking) tail between my legs.

[BookWyrm]

I'm a light and medium pilot at heart but recently have begun playing heavies and assaults more, enough that I have a few hundred matches in each. And I have to be honest, it feels like easy mode. Damage and kills that take a lot of effort in a light require a minimal amount in heavies and assaults. Even with hit detection issues they're one good alpha away from death and I kill them all the time, and I'm certainly not an amazing player, just experienced. Of course this is all anecdotal. I will admit there are hit detection issues, especially for those over 200 ping, but I do not understand the hatred and vitriol directed towards lights. They have a far rougher time contributing the same amount to the team. So don't L2P, L2see the other side of things. If lights are all powerful USE THEM, and give PGI the statistics they need to say to themselves 'Holy {Scrap}, lights are gods amongst mechs shooting lightning bolts from their arse and slo' mo' Matrix stopping bullets.' I highly doubt this will ever take place though.

Edited by BookWyrm, 10 October 2013 - 07:49 PM.

[Khobai]

Quote

Now that they don't home-to-CT for cheap 2-volley kills, the A1 is just far too slow to hunt lights with SSRMs.

So is the Kintaro; 116kph is too slow to hunt down a 151kph light with JJs. Both the Kintaro and A1 are reactionary at killing lights and neither can proactively hunt them down.

[Scandinavian Jawbreaker]

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:49 PM, said:

So is the Kintaro; 116kph is too slow to hunt down a 151kph light with JJs. Both the Kintaro and A1 are reactionary at killing lights and neither can proactively hunt them down.

No light killer should be able to hunt down light mechs. That would be ridiculous. Light killers are for RTB and watching assault mechs backs. Any light facing KTO-18 w/ streaks in open terrain is dead meat.

[DocBach]

Wilhelm Fraek, on 10 October 2013 - 07:33 PM, said:

So the counter to lights is 1 mech......


everything else is meat i guess welcome to lightwarrior

lights also don't seem to like being hit with 2 PPC + AC/10 combos, either. Usually splats them dead with a good hit.

[Johnny Reb]

kongman, on 10 October 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

just as the title says , lights need to be nerfed in a huge way .nothing more to add really .

Wrong, hsr needs to be fixed so you can hit all mechs, lights exasperate it. Spider does need a hitbox look. However, lights are actually in a good place, mostly. Mediums, not so much but I digress.

Also, I rarely run lights, just to get the ones mastered I want to keep, then for change of pace.

[akpavker]

kongman, on 10 October 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

just as the title says , lights need to be nerfed in a huge way .nothing more to add really .

HSR needs to be fixed thats all.....otherwise there fine as is!

[Nryrony]

kongman, on 10 October 2013 - 04:34 PM, said:

just as the title says , lights need to be nerfed in a huge way .nothing more to add really .

Trolls need to be removed.

nothing more to add really .

[Storm Khan]

Khobai, on 10 October 2013 - 07:07 PM, said:

That may be true. But the problem is EVERYTHING else is paper.

And if you want to boat streaks, its hard to justify taking Kintaro over a Streakcat, IMO.

Yes you can. A StreakCat has all its weapons in its box ears which are really easy to target and blow off.

[Johnny Reb]

Yeah, Streaktaro gave the streakcat its walking papers!

[ICEFANG13]

If you think its so easy, you do it, and you can see first hand. Against good players, playing a light is hard.