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Reason For Things That Are Technically Needed That Cost Mc To Have More Mechs Or Win A Battle Faster?


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#21 luxebo

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 06:42 PM

Speaking of hero mechs, is there a list or ranking from best to worst or what special qualities there are on each? I'm still playing for free as of now and I don't really see good or bad qualities in each one. Plus, I think it'll help the OP here have a different mindset. Thanks! :huh:

Edit:

View PostWhatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:


He is right you know technically speaking that does give people an advantage over others if they are using hero mechs for battle. By the way is Jagermech I recognize from MechWarrior 2 in this game? I kind of remember it using all machine guns.


Yes, the Jagermech DD or Jagermech S are both what sounds like what you're trying to do. Jagermech A has too little ballistic slots.
Here's a build full of Dakka on DD. http://mwo.smurfy-ne...133919e7e87e2dc
It could use double heat sinks, more armor, more ammo, etc but I layed down the general structure and double heat sinks just are too expensive imho to be used fully unless keeping the mech permanently (which I never really do.)

Edited by luxebo, 12 October 2013 - 06:48 PM.


#22 Buckminster

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:10 PM

I always find it amusing that people say "why can't I spend $60 for a whole game, rather than having a game that is free to download and doesn't really require any money".

I've certainly spent money on MWO, more than $60 even. But none of it has been required.

#23 Eaerie

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Posted 12 October 2013 - 07:30 PM

I own a couple hero mechs the misery being one. I love my misery just cause of the ballistic hardpoint but comepared to my other stalker varients at best it performs equal to them not better. But it does give a change of pace over the other stalker varients.
The only thing I see "hero" mechs doing is getting me CBills faster so I have more toys to play with

#24 Tarl Cabot

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 07:29 AM

As for waiting for MW5...this is it :D Or would have been it but no one wanted to back PGI in making MW5 so they went the route of MWO and PTP scenario. The only bad thing would be if PGI would to close its doors then MWO would also be gone ;)

#25 Koniving

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:32 AM

View Postluxebo, on 12 October 2013 - 06:42 PM, said:

Speaking of hero mechs, is there a list or ranking from best to worst or what special qualities there are on each? I'm still playing for free as of now and I don't really see good or bad qualities in each one. Plus, I think it'll help the OP here have a different mindset. Thanks! :D


It's hard to rank them. But here's an example. The Muromet's greatest ability can be done (for 5 tons less) by a Jager S or DD.
The Pretty Baby is a combination 8V and 9M. The Boar's Head is an Atlas RS crossbred with an Atlas K and 2 extra energy.
The Misery is a gimped stalker with a ballistic, losing 1 energy slot and 3 missile slots to make the ballistic happen.
The Golden Boy is the slowest Kintaro.
The Yen Lo Wang is the most inferior of the Centurions, so much so that the AH was removed (3 ballistic, AC/20 mountable, twin missile, no energy) in order to encourage people to buy it.

The only hero mech truly superior to its cbill variants is the X-5. Carrying missiles instead of ballistics has made that Cicada truly better than all of its brethren. And it still dies in 2 shots.

#26 Wintersdark

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:45 AM

Ilya Muromets: The best hero to date, but as Koniving said, everything it does can be done on a Jager arguably better (higher mounted weapons allow firing from cover effectively; all ballistics are arm mounted)
Misery: Decent Stalker, but inferior to the 3F. It pays a very high price for that Ballistic slot which, while cool, doesn't really make the mech stronger. With that said, it's still a good mech because Stalkers are pretty decent.
Boar's Head: Essentially the same hardpoints as the Misery; not offering anything substantial that the D-DC or K cannot do. The D-DC is pretty solidly better. The Misery as least is compact and offers high arm mounted energy weapons and zombie potential.
Heavy Metal: Again, a solid mech largely because Highlanders are solid mechs. With the nerfing of poptarts, and ghost heat spanking 3 large energy weapons (particularly Large Lasers, which fit so well in the HM's LA) the Heavy Metal's advantages have been severely curtailed. Still, it's not a bad mech.
Flame: Arguably the best Dragon, but still a Dragon
Fang: Not as good as the Flame, but usable. Still a Dragon.
X5: Arguably the best Cicada, as missiles are easier to effectively use on lighter chassis. No AMS, though, and fragile.
Yen Lo Wang: Decent, but only one good build and requires a very specific playstyle.
Golden Boy: Too slow for a large medium. Just dies.
Death's Knell: It's a commando. No faster than a Jenner, less armor, no jump jets, only 4E. It's terrible.
Pretty Baby: Arguably one of the most heavily disadvantaged mechs in the game. Hardpoint list that struggles to beat lights, terrible wide torso and enormous CT hitbox.


They're often pretty close, so within a rank or two you can generally swap things around harmlessly. But the reality is that while many are cool mechs and fun to use, they're not objectively better than c-bill mechs, and very rarely even comparable to the best variants in their own chassis type.

#27 luxebo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:49 AM

Thanks for the response Koniving and Wintersdark, was going to post my own sorta ideas on the heroes but you guys already solved it for me. :D Now I know what might be good for purchase and what might not be good.

Edit: How is the Dragon Slayer, Protector, and Firebrand? They seem pretty solid. I guess Golden Boy is probably the worst hero then, even Pretty Baby and TDK have at least some good quirks, super fast speed for the former and more lasers for the latter (and allowance of cheese using 4 er ppcs as I saw in threads before.)

Edited by luxebo, 13 October 2013 - 09:54 AM.


#28 Buckminster

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:00 PM

View PostKoniving, on 13 October 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:

The Yen Lo Wang is the most inferior of the Centurions, so much so that the AH was removed (3 ballistic, AC/20 mountable,

I don't know if I'd completely agree with this. It is very situational, and you really need to like the idea of an AC/20 (or maybe a pair of UACs) to make it worth taking over the Cent-D.

#29 Koniving

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:11 PM

View PostBuckminster, on 13 October 2013 - 12:00 PM, said:

I don't know if I'd completely agree with this. It is very situational, and you really need to like the idea of an AC/20 (or maybe a pair of UACs) to make it worth taking over the Cent-D.

Precisely. It's super limited in viable builds. It wasn't until it got an engine buff that it became worth something, as it used to be just a regular Centurion with limited hardpoints. Though when it started they removed the AH, despite the AH being limited to a 250 engine (slower than all other Centurions).

#30 Buckminster

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 12:49 PM

I guess that's another part of it - I'm never playing in a competitive 12 man. I'm here for the nostalgia and the lolz, and the Wang fits the bill nicely, with a 30% c-bill boost.

#31 Sadistic Savior

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 02:33 PM

View PostWhatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 12:18 PM, said:

Let me give examples like the priority airstrike, the other one, and Mech bays. I mean seriously why pay real money just to have more mechs or an advantage? I would rather wait for a real MechWarrior game not MechWarrior online more like MechWarrior 5!

This is the closest thing to a real mechwarrior game so far. This is closer to the original than any of the previous MW games were. The previous MW games were arcadish versions of the real thing. Battletech was never meant to be Quake with robots.

Quote

I am not asking others too quit infact I don't want too quit I just think that atleast it could be less expensive.

None of that stuff is required to win. I place in the top 10% all the time (and often the #1 spot) and have never used airstrike even once. You do not need to spend a dime to win at this game...all money does is lessen the grind. Thats it.

View PostWhatzituyah, on 12 October 2013 - 05:15 PM, said:


He is right you know technically speaking that does give people an advantage over others if they are using hero mechs for battle. By the way is Jagermech I recognize from MechWarrior 2 in this game? I kind of remember it using all machine guns.

The Jagermech is from the tabletop game, not MW2. MW2 just used a version of it.

What advantages are hero mechs giving you? ALl they have different are hardpoint configs...thats it. They cannot mount better weapons or better engines or more armor. They dont let you carry more ammo or hit stuff easier.

#32 Whatzituyah

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 09:27 PM

View PostSadistic Savior, on 13 October 2013 - 02:33 PM, said:

This is the closest thing to a real mechwarrior game so far. This is closer to the original than any of the previous MW games were. The previous MW games were arcadish versions of the real thing. Battletech was never meant to be Quake with robots.


None of that stuff is required to win. I place in the top 10% all the time (and often the #1 spot) and have never used airstrike even once. You do not need to spend a dime to win at this game...all money does is lessen the grind. Thats it.


The Jagermech is from the tabletop game, not MW2. MW2 just used a version of it.

What advantages are hero mechs giving you? ALl they have different are hardpoint configs...thats it. They cannot mount better weapons or better engines or more armor. They dont let you carry more ammo or hit stuff easier.


I dont know this sure looks like Jagermech
Posted Image

Link http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Rifleman

also link for Jagermech apparently they be cousins http://www.sarna.net/wiki/Jagermech

This also was my favorite http://www.sarna.net...g_%28Vulture%29

Sounds like thats a ways though

Edited by Whatzituyah, 13 October 2013 - 09:32 PM.


#33 luxebo

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:02 PM

...What are you trying to say?

Yes, Jagermech and Rifleman are similar, but Rifleman is part of the unseen with the company and rights problems, so unlikely to see that. Jagermech is as close as you can get to Rifleman. Vulture is a Clan mech, therefore not in a while. I want it, but the timeline and stuff limits it.

#34 Johnny Reb

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:07 PM

View PostKoniving, on 13 October 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:


It's hard to rank them. But here's an example. The Muromet's greatest ability can be done (for 5 tons less) by a Jager S or DD.
The Pretty Baby is a combination 8V and 9M. The Boar's Head is an Atlas RS crossbred with an Atlas K and 2 extra energy.
The Misery is a gimped stalker with a ballistic, losing 1 energy slot and 3 missile slots to make the ballistic happen.
The Golden Boy is the slowest Kintaro.
The Yen Lo Wang is the most inferior of the Centurions, so much so that the AH was removed (3 ballistic, AC/20 mountable, twin missile, no energy) in order to encourage people to buy it.

The only hero mech truly superior to its cbill variants is the X-5. Carrying missiles instead of ballistics has made that Cicada truly better than all of its brethren. And it still dies in 2 shots.

As to the x-5 if it had ecm then I would agree with you. However, the 3M is the best Cicada in my eyes.

#35 Void Angel

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:27 PM

View PostWhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:


Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.

Trouble is, the Hero 'Mechs really don't give a notable advantage. Ask Pretty Baby pilots. The Hero Mechs are a huge quality-of-life bonus because of the enhanced C-bill generation, but they're not game-breaking - on the contrary, very few Hero 'mechs are considered to be the best variant in their chassis.

Certainly, you can only get Hero 'Mechs through real money, and this does mean that people can pay to get a 'mech unavailable with C-bills. That's totally not the same as "not having a level playing field," though. A level playing field means that everyone can compete with no demonstrable advantage being given by MC-only items. That's what we have; it's a really fun game which will only get better - and which has a player-base adamantly opposed to a "pay to win" model.

#36 Void Angel

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Posted 13 October 2013 - 10:31 PM

View PostBuckminster, on 13 October 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I guess that's another part of it - I'm never playing in a competitive 12 man. I'm here for the nostalgia and the lolz, and the Wang fits the bill nicely, with a 30% c-bill boost.

I play 12-mans, and while you do see hero 'mechs there, they're not terribly common - which is what you'd expect in a competitive environment. My team, however, doesn't care a bit if you're using a hero 'mech or not. It's just a matter of what build you're using, and if it fits the drop requirements.

#37 Itsalrightwithme

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 05:59 AM

View PostKoniving, on 13 October 2013 - 09:32 AM, said:


The only hero mech truly superior to its cbill variants is the X-5. Carrying missiles instead of ballistics has made that Cicada truly better than all of its brethren. And it still dies in 2 shots.


Yet the X-5 has no AMS, it is the only Cicada that doesn't have an AMS slot. It's fun to play, though.

I do like the Victor Dragon Slayer, although I am biased because I have all Victors and I like them all. if I had started by owning the 3 non-Hero Victors, it would be a hard sell for me to get the DS. I bought it mostly because it was released first.

Edited by Itsalrightwithme, 14 October 2013 - 06:00 AM.


#38 Geek Verve

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:26 AM

I just thought I'd chime in re: the P2W suggestion. I bought a Boar's Head - not because it was the best Atlas (it clearly isn't), but because it offered 3-energy hard points on each arm. I simply thought that made for a cool-looking Atlas. However, equipping them all, in addition to the other hard points available, results in a somewhat under-powered mech (by Atlas standards). Sure, it's fast, but that XL engine makes it way more fragile than I'm comfortable with in an assault mech.

There are reasons people would consider paying real money for hero mechs, but a performance advantage isn't usually one of them. Generally it's merely aesthetics and perhaps a hard point/equipment configuration that's just a little different from what is offered in other variants of that model.

Edited by Geek Verve, 14 October 2013 - 06:26 AM.


#39 Macbrea

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:33 AM

So, you play a hobby but refuse to spend any money to play it. The game is free to play and you can do that if you want to. None of the hero mechs are particularly better then the c-bill variants in the game. If you were extremely hardcore, i refuse to play for anything in life type person you could have maxed all 4 mechs you are going to play in about a week.

Alot of players play the same mech over and over. I for instance have 15 mechs in my 18 bays. Yes, I keep three empty bays for those instances were I want to try out a new chassis. I also have come to the conclusion that, I just don't see a point of selling a mech chassis. Eventually, i will have all of them to pick and choose from.

Now, having said that I have, there are three mechs I am particularly good at playing. Catapult-K2, Commando-2D and Raven-2X. You will notice, none of those are the heroic mech/champion mechs. Two of those mechs are considered inferior mechs by alot of the players.

A hobby is what you make of it. I don't know what world you live in were you cannot afford to spend any money on your hobbies. But, this version of the game is particularly close to the original content. The game tries to give the flavor of the table top.

#40 John MatriX82

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Posted 14 October 2013 - 06:49 AM

View PostWhenReaperComes, on 12 October 2013 - 04:49 PM, said:

Not true.

There are a number of mechs that can only be obtained with real $$ and not built from in house "free monoply money". For example: the Goldenboy or the Firebrand. These are just 2 of many, the primary difference being in the available loadouts. These mechs cannot be built starting from other variants. It doesn't matter which way the mechs are biased, be they better or worse than the available freebies. That's a matter of personal opinion and pilot strength. But the bottom line is that it is not "an even playing field" between people that use real $$ and those who do not..

Being new here I could be wrong, and if so I apologize in advance.


Wrong :ph34r:

The only real thing you have to spend money onto is for mechbays, because that way you keep the value of the mechs you've mastered (without wasting the hardly grinded cbills) and you can have more choice/freedom about what to field before any match.

PGI has screwed a lot with this game, but if there's something they did well, it's to avoid pay to win. As those consumables are, you can reach the same level of efficiency investing your GXP to unlock the cbill variants.
A Cool shot 18 equals @1:1 the efficiency of a 9 by 9 upgraded at rank 2 with an hefty 15000 GXP price, but GXP is free, you gather it by playing the game. And if you play a lot without wasting it to exp the mech variants (using only mech xp) you're going to unlock several consumables for free. And quite frankly, besides cool shots, arty or airstrikes are worthless, so it just makes me smile that someone spends real money for those after each match xD.


Getting back to Hero mechs, they are balanced towards the normal cbill variants, and often inferior or allow different things without making them necessarily overpowered at all.

Take the famed Ilya Muromets: at high levels of play, you'd probably see it parked as mine is in my hangar, in favor of a JJ-capable CTF 3D, that costs cbills only.
I even regret having bought the IM to a point I won't buy hero mechs anymore (unless they have some interesting packs maybe for the incoming clans)..

My AS7-D(F) is often favoured to an AS7-D-DC that costs cbills; I've even sold my RS so when I saw the Boar's Head I laughed at it deeply because it's very limited at 1 ballistic and 1 missile hardpoint. But quite frankly, after the movement archetipes introduction, I've not been touching any of my Atlases at all, so the D(F) it's there dusting off.

The Golden Boy? Oh boy, it's slower than any of the cbill Kintaro variants, to a point that a KTO-18 does the same job faster, better and without costing real money.
-CDA X-5 misses the AMS, an ECM-capable 3M is generally better;
-TDK doesn't have ECM (and it's a commando anyway),
-the Yen Lo Wang can go AC 20, but then you completely miss missile slots (in competitive playouts, you see CN9-As not YLWs);
-the Pretty Baby it's an Awesome, an AWS-9M can do similar things with similar speed without costing real money and when you want to stop it stops on its tracks, it doesn't keep running for 100 meters after you have zeroed the throttle like the PB does;
-Fang? Flame? Dragons. they Are walking wrecks, killed by the huge CT, missing jumpjets and so on, quickdraws are better as flankers and fast-movers
-Firebrand: it's nice, you can do a rifleman-like setup. But it's a Jager, side torsoes are huge and you're 90% of the times in need to go XL so the FB doesn't have any advantage compared to a DD or an S and it can't use missiles as the A.
-Protector: an ON-V can do basically the same things. And it's still an Orion, so you are easy to core or to get sided to blow the XL engine within.
-Dragon Slayer: it's nice, but only if you jumpsnipe, besides that it's basically a "different" victor
-Misery: it was pretty good in the GR+PPC meta, although you had an exploding Gauss rilfe in a side torso without arms to cover it, so it blew out pretty fast. Now that GR has been nerfed, it's less critical than a 3F, that has more torso twist and costs cbills.
-Heavy metal: it's a nice brawler. In competitive 12mans you see 733Cs now, 732s before, not HMs.

Nope, Hero mechs are most of the times pretty balanced, they basically give you more cbills and get an unique pattern and hardpoint layout, often cbill variants are far superior or play equally and after all, you're not "constrained" playing a single variant as you'd do with an hero mech, because you're tied to that one to farm cbills, but it might not be the best choice to play especially when the Devs break or rebalance some weapons, making an uber-useful hero mech that was good with a certain meta become scrap within one patch. And this is another plus in not spending real money, can't you see? xD

So the game is free to play for real, it's hard on newbies, it's not balanced properly, has several issues, but you can really play without spending real money; however if you want to improve your experience, you can spend some $$ and buy some more room for newer mechs to ease the grind and get a more varied gameplay or flexibility or invest in some PT, it will level all your variants in no time thanks to the double xp and will make cbill variants instant hero mechs, even better money farmer than hero mechs are (50% cbills under PT vs 30% for heroes)..





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