66 replies to this topic

[Kaosity]

John MatriX82, on 14 October 2013 - 06:49 AM, said:

Wrong

Everyone who has responded to my post needs to reread it. I am NOT implying pay to win. My original post was in response to a statement that the playing field is level between $$ and non-$$ pilots. If $$ give you access to chasis that non-$$ users do not have then it is not level. It matters not if what you buy is better, worse, or equivalent, its not the same on both sides of the fence. ergo... not level.

[StarGeezer]

WhenReaperComes, on 14 October 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Everyone who has responded to my post needs to reread it. I am NOT implying pay to win. My original post was in response to a statement that the playing field is level between $$ and non-$$ pilots. If $$ give you access to chasis that non-$$ users do not have then it is not level. It matters not if what you buy is better, worse, or equivalent, its not the same on both sides of the fence. ergo... not level.

So using that logic, if I use MC to buy camo patterns and paints (which have absolutely zero impact on actual gameplay) is that too tending toward an uneven playing field? Hero mechs fall into the same category...aside from custom paint job and often inferior loadouts, you gain absolutely nothing within a match for running a hero versus a C-Bills mech. One may argue that the 30% C-Bill boost presents an unfair advantage, but it's not outrageous enough to really tip the scales for those who opt not to run them.

[Macbrea]

Well, that is the nature of pay to play games. Items acquired through real cash are different. They are a company that employs employees that require real money in order to survive. We don't quite live in a society that allows us to put a chip in the back of someones neck and make them work for free until they starve to death. As a result, the company has to put out items that would entice their customers to buy them.

Generally, speaking none of the hero/champion mechs are particularly spectacular. None, are required to play competitively. And the rest of the items are personal preference. The only item that could be claimed as required for play is Mech Bays. Because in order to effectively master any mech you must have 3 bays. So, to master all mechs in your bay in all likelihood you will need a total of 6 bays for two sets of three.

As has already been pointed out that is about 7.95 (the lowest mc) of investment into this game. Cheaper then it would cost you to go see the most recent terrible 2-3 hour long movie. So, if you cannot allocate that much money to your hobby. You will have to simply deal with the fact you cannot easily master all mechs you own.

It may seem a harsh way to state what I am stating, but the concept that a computer programmer is going to do anything for free is really silly. PGI/IGP are companies out to make money. It is totally on the players of their game, wether to support the game or not support the game.

It should be noted that not supporting roleplaying games has been happening for a few years. The number of publishers has dropped by quite a bit. They stopped making money. The only thing that is really getting them back into the business, seems to be kickstarter style productions.

Edited by Macbrea, 14 October 2013 - 07:25 AM.

[Sadistic Savior]

Whatzituyah, on 13 October 2013 - 09:27 PM, said:

I dont know this sure looks like Jagermech

And the old Honda Civic looked like a Volkswagon Rabbit. But it wasn't.

The Jagermech was basically a re-seen Rifleman. It filled the same role and looked similar. But it is a different mech.

The Jagermech did NOT originate with MW2...it predated it by quite a bit. It was a FASA design from the tabletop game. This is what it actually looked like:



http://www.sarna.net/wiki/JagerMech

The MWO version looks more like a Rifleman. In the lore, this was intended as a replacement for the Rifleman.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 14 October 2013 - 08:08 AM.

[Buckminster]

WhenReaperComes, on 14 October 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Everyone who has responded to my post needs to reread it. I am NOT implying pay to win. My original post was in response to a statement that the playing field is level between $$ and non-$$ pilots. If $$ give you access to chasis that non-$$ users do not have then it is not level. It matters not if what you buy is better, worse, or equivalent, its not the same on both sides of the fence. ergo... not level.

I get what you are saying - that it isn't "pay to win" per se, but since hero mechs are something that you can not acquire through c-bill means, then you can't explicitly say that the game does not provide something that is exclusive for the cash people.

I think they've done a great job of keeping "P2W" balance in mind when they do stuff. It's primarily "pay for early access" (Project Phoenix tomorrow!!), which I think is a great model. Let the people that don't want to grind buy, and let the people that don't want to buy grind.

[The Lost Boy]

Im new to MWO but have been playing battletech on the table for decades. When I saw that 6 of the original mechs were for sale , I went gaga nuto and forked out money. They could all suck *** and be horrible and some will Im sure. But the Griffin and Battlemaster were the first Mechs I ever used. And the venerable Thunderbolt is my all time fav, with MANY tabletop, glorious victories. How could I not fork out some bucks to get them all. The cash bonus and premium time will help me get tooled up for the clan invasion that is coming soon. For me its all nostalgia, plus they look cool.

[Kaosity]

StarGeezer, on 14 October 2013 - 07:18 AM, said:

So using that logic, if I use MC to buy camo patterns and paints (which have absolutely zero impact on actual gameplay) is that too tending toward an uneven playing field? Hero mechs fall into the same category...aside from custom paint job and often inferior loadouts, you gain absolutely nothing within a match for running a hero versus a C-Bills mech. One may argue that the 30% C-Bill boost presents an unfair advantage, but it's not outrageous enough to really tip the scales for those who opt not to run them.

Hmmmm... thought I said chasis, not paint. And like I said whether a given chasis is better, worse, or equivalent to other variants is a matter of opinion and pilot skills in said variants. But the one thing that you cannot deny is that they are different in hardware, not the Barbie dress they are wearing at the time.

Anyway, I think I've made my point and any further discussion will only cloud up the initial subject matter so I will not continue beyond this post. As always, you have the right to disagree, as I have.

Good hunting...

[Fajther]

Mechwarrior 5 isn't going to happen. Russ explained once how Brian and him originally pitched mechwarrior 5 to publishing companies for almost a year and nobody would take the idea. Arms race game, with no roles, only assaults are good, slow can't be exciting, nobody can make a AAA quality game for one platform unless it is a really big title. So Brian and Russ did operation inception to try and prove them wrong. The only way we will ever see a mechwarrior 5 is if the video game industry as a whole sees us get behind a mechwarrior game in a big way. Unless mwo becomes the next dota or lol, you will never see it happen. Sorry, but there will never be a mechwarrior 5. We are to picky about our mechs.

[Mechteric]

For $50 USD (the price of a new PC game) you could buy 40 mech bays. There you go, you're now not playing a F2P game.


PS: if this whole thing is about Hero mechs, then that train has left a long time ago. Hero mechs really aren't that special, different, but not better in really any way other than speeding up CBill rates.

Edited by CapperDeluxe, 14 October 2013 - 12:27 PM.

[Alaskan Nobody]

He is simply complaining about the fact that there is a MECH in the game he cannot have without paying.
He doesn't care about paint.
He cares about the chassis.

Good luck WhenReaperComes - but from what you are saying... you are probably not gonna be happy here.

[Void Angel]

WhenReaperComes, on 14 October 2013 - 07:04 AM, said:

Everyone who has responded to my post needs to reread it. I am NOT implying pay to win. My original post was in response to a statement that the playing field is level between $$ and non-$$ pilots. If $$ give you access to chasis that non-$$ users do not have then it is not level. It matters not if what you buy is better, worse, or equivalent, its not the same on both sides of the fence. ergo... not level.

Void Angel said:

Trouble is, the Hero 'Mechs really don't give a notable advantage. Ask Pretty Baby pilots. The Hero Mechs are a huge quality-of-life bonus because of the enhanced C-bill generation, but they're not game-breaking - on the contrary, very few Hero 'mechs are considered to be the best variant in their chassis.

Certainly, you can only get Hero 'Mechs through real money, and this does mean that people can pay to get a 'mech unavailable with C-bills. That's totally not the same as "not having a level playing field," though. A level playing field means that everyone can compete with no demonstrable advantage being given by MC-only items. That's what we have; it's a really fun game which will only get better - and which has a player-base adamantly opposed to a "pay to win" model.

Read it the first time - and again, since Hero 'mechs are, despite their custom hardpoints, designed to be balanced against C-bill variants... The playing field is level. Sure, there are some things you can only get via real money. But they all amount to time-saving devices, not a combat advantages.

[Sadistic Savior]

Fajther, on 14 October 2013 - 12:20 PM, said:

Mechwarrior 5 isn't going to happen.

It no longer needs to happen. This game is better than every other MW game to date.

[luxebo]

You guys got to realize something, WhenReaperComes still has his recruit sign on him, meaning that he hasn't even played through the Cadet Bonus. In other words, he's only assuming that Heroes have an advantage because they're payed for (while a lot have different quirks, they're almost always on par with the C-bill variants, and if not, (edit: dis)advantageous like the Golden Boy.) Thanks for the help on the hero mech question I had earlier as well.

Edited by luxebo, 14 October 2013 - 09:57 PM.

[Kaosity]

luxebo, on 14 October 2013 - 03:20 PM, said:

You guys got to realize something, WhenReaperComes still has his recruit sign on him, meaning that he hasn't even played through the Cadet Bonus. In other words, he's only assuming that Heroes have an advantage because they're payed for (while a lot have different quirks, they're almost always on par with the C-bill variants, and if not, (edit: dis)advantageous like the Golden Boy.) Thanks for the help on the hero mech question I had earlier as well.

True, but it is because my hardware is so out of date that even on the lowest vid settings I get 10-20 fps. According to Fed-X my new Alienware Aurora R4 arrives the 15th (yea!! today!!) I figure 2-3 days to get what software I want xferred between machines, get the "factory installed" OS and drivers updated, and then I'ii be working on getting rid of that recruit moniker.

And I'm making no assumptions... I'd call them informed opinions. Not being able to currently play I've spent 4-10 hours a day reading forums and studying combat video files for over 2 weeks (disabled/retired with nothing better to do ) and I think most of the Heros are worse than many of their variant counterparts. Never played board BT (I was an AD&D guy back in the 70's and 80's) but I played all the PC MW games through MW3 on the MS Zone. (Could never get into MW4).

Anyway, so much for my limited background.

Being a recruit I can't make multiple quotes, but Shar Wolf said "Good luck WhenReaperComes - but from what you are saying... you are probably not gonna be happy here." I was never complaining about paying $$. In fact I've sent well over a $100 to PGI without ever playing a game, not to mention thousands on new hardware, so I hope your wrong.

Good hunting...

[Buckminster]

Oh, in case it hasn't been said yet - welcome! And I hope you like what you find here. I've loved the game so far, and I always like to see other people that really enjoy it.

On a side note - in all that hardware you have, did you grab a joystick or throttle? As an old school MW guy, and I found the game really took off for me when I started using joystick and mouse. I tried using straight up joystick, but the accuracy isn't there. I tried using WASD and mouse, but was desperately wanting for analog movement controls. Then I saw a forum post on using the off-hand joystick, and I've loved it. It gives me the immersion I want in a mech game, without sacrificing accuracy.

[Sadistic Savior]

WhenReaperComes, on 15 October 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

I've spent 4-10 hours a day reading forums and studying combat video files for over 2 weeks (disabled/retired with nothing better to do ) and I think most of the Heros are worse than many of their variant counterparts.

By what measure?

I can guarantee you from personal experience, I play far better with the Heavy metal I bought than I did with any of the Highlander variants (and I have elited all of them). It's arm-mounted direct fire weapons have been invaluable to me. For my playstyle, the Heavy metal is ideal.

This is what I was trying to get across earlier...there are no bad mechs. The best mech is relative...it depends on what playstyle is best for you. I do bad with PPCs and LRMs, but there are other players that will not use anything else but those weapons. There is no mech hierarchy as there was in the previous PC games.

The HM is the only mech I have paid money for so far. Of all the hero mechs I have seen, there are maybe 3 total I would consider (I like the Firebrand and Misery as well, but not enough to buy them). Hero mechs are not an "I Win' button, but neither are they worthless. It depends on what you want.

Quote

Never played board BT (I was an AD&D guy back in the 70's and 80's) but I played all the PC MW games through MW3 on the MS Zone. (Could never get into MW4).

I played all of the above extensively. MWO is better than any previous Battletech video game. There is nothing the previous games did that this game does not do better.

If you are not yet out of the cadet phase, you cannot judge the "real" game yet. I can tell you that from experience. Playing with trial mechs is like having one hand tied behind your back. Customization is everything IMO. Playing in a mech you have customized to your playstyle is a night and day difference compared to a Trial mech. It is not merely a matter of "Light/Medium/Heavy"...every model of mech has it's own quirks. How far it's torso can twist, and how fast and smooth (and XP will further modify that), how far it's arms can move, what stuff it can mount and where. Even cockpit visibility. You've seen a tiny sliver of the real game.

Edited by Sadistic Savior, 15 October 2013 - 06:55 AM.

[Kaosity]

Buckminster, on 15 October 2013 - 03:42 AM, said:

Oh, in case it hasn't been said yet - welcome! And I hope you like what you find here. I've loved the game so far, and I always like to see other people that really enjoy it.

On a side note - in all that hardware you have, did you grab a joystick or throttle?.

Thank you for the welcome.

Same setup I used in MW3... mouse and JS. I've spent a lot of time in the training grounds learning the maps (yeah... right... remember about 10% of what I've played ), and at 10-20 fps I'm not getting a real feel for mech/weapon control yet. Only time and grinding will bring that.

[Koniving]

WhenReaperComes, on 15 October 2013 - 08:03 AM, said:

Thank you for the welcome.

Same setup I used in MW3... mouse and JS. I've spent a lot of time in the training grounds learning the maps (yeah... right... remember about 10% of what I've played ), and at 10-20 fps I'm not getting a real feel for mech/weapon control yet. Only time and grinding will bring that.

Ouch. That's not a good frame rate. 30 minimum to have fun (it's what I record at), with 40 or more being ideal. What's your computer specs? Laptop/desktop? Graphics card (if you say intel HD graphics, well, there's your problem). RAM and processor.

Myself. Desktop. AMD Phenom II x4 processor. 3.60 ghz. 16 gigs ram. AMD/ATI Radeon Hd 6870 1 gig graphics (I got two of them but MWO only uses one). My weakness is the card. Frames are in the 50s (lots of programs open) to 70s. I only record at 30 so I can get lots of footage without stopping every hour to convert it. Plus no one can tell the difference.

[Alaskan Nobody]

WhenReaperComes, on 15 October 2013 - 01:57 AM, said:

Being a recruit I can't make multiple quotes, but Shar Wolf said "Good luck WhenReaperComes - but from what you are saying... you are probably not gonna be happy here." I was never complaining about paying $$. In fact I've sent well over a $100 to PGI without ever playing a game, not to mention thousands on new hardware, so I hope your wrong.

Good hunting...

Been wrong before, I will be wrong again in the future

Spend the day reading (at best) massively opinionated reviews complaining about the game, then find what looks like a similar one in the forums (Here is a tip, friends don't let friends read posts or post themselves when really tired )

Your first post still confuses me, but that may just be me reading weird (Aspergers for the confusion! ...wait, the forum doesn't know how to spell that!?!?!?)

If you are fine with the pay nature of the game....
>.<

I don't know what you are posting about really
I am not sure what I am really saying either so...

Best of luck to your matches?

[Whatzituyah]

Sadistic Savior, on 15 October 2013 - 06:53 AM, said:

I played all of the above extensively. MWO is better than any previous Battletech video game. There is nothing the previous games did that this game does not do better.

Wait I wouldn't say that we have yet to see a Mech get unbalanced "Litterally" by be fired upon with a very strong forceful weapon.