74 replies to this topic

[Sable Dove]

Hold a double-XP weekend that ends right before releasing the Locust, which has officially taken over as the worst mech in the game by a significant margin.

That's some sense of humour you've got there.

[Kataiser]

The Locust is hard to pilot, but fairly strong, from what I've seen. It doesn't act like a frontline bruiser because it isn't one.

[Racklesnack]

Sable Dove, on 15 October 2013 - 04:06 PM, said:

Hold a double-XP weekend that ends right before releasing the Locust, which has officially taken over as the worst mech in the game by a significant margin.

That's some sense of humour you've got there.

Worst mech in the game? They're everywhere and in swarms have been shredding anything they come across....

[Sable Dove]

-Cluttered cockpit; can be difficult to see clearly.
-Possesses no advantage over any other light mech that would make it worth taking.
-The slight amount of speed advantage is only obtainable by sacrificing a great deal of tonnage for weapons or armour.
-It is barely smaller than the Spider, while also lacking jumpjets, ECM, or MASC, and with a loadout of 2/3rds the size.
-Doesn't have enough armour to survive any actual engagement with any other mech.

Currently the only way I've found to actually make it remotely effective is to use an ER Large Laser and simply out-range enemies' sensors so they can't track as reliably. This range, of course, means that you do virtually no damage, but at least you're safe from return fire. Unless they have a Gauss, AC5, UAC5, AC2, or ERPPC, or ERLL.

The minuscule amount of damage you can inflict in a match results in virtually no XP, which makes the grind for efficiencies even more torturous than usual, and the non-combat rewards are even less viable, as they require you to be within sensor/TAG range with line of sight of the enemy, which is going to get you killed long before you get points for doing these things.

Pretty much the only purpose of the Locust is go as fast as possible and cap the enemy base. And only in Assault, because if you try to cap in Conquest, you'll be waiting more than long enough for an enemy light to get there and annihilate you.


In truth, the problem isn't the Locust itself; it's an issue with many gameplay mechanics. Mechs in general are too agile (in terms of torso-twist/pitch, arm movement, turning, etc.), so the only way to give the Locust an advantage is to make it even more agile, at which point it simply becomes more difficult to pilot or aim. Without any efficiencies, and with mouse sensitivity at 0.4, the locust turns its torso far faster than the camera can keep up, so increasing the speed is only going to make it more difficult to aim.

Thanks to efficiencies, Assaults are more agile than heavies should be, heavies more than mediums should be, and mediums as agile as lights should be (minus the ground-speed unless it's a Cicada). So the only thing to do for lights is to make them so agile that it begins to work against the player.

The only advantage it actually has is tonnage, and when tonnage gaps of 100+ tons are very common, that doesn't mean squat. Especially when you can take a mech 5-15 tons heavier that is superior in every way, and it wouldn't have any significant effect on the teams.

It's hard to suggest how to fix the Locust, since the problems are that the entire system works against them, but a start would be to remove the clutter from the cockpit, and reduce the size a bit.

Addressing the systemic problems:
-Re-work mech efficiencies so that they are tradeoffs or specializations, rather than direct upgrades.
-Reduce ranges of ballistics and the ERPPC (ballistics would be a simple matter of reducing the max range to just 2x the effective range. ERPPC just needs it's range reduced to what it should be, relative to the PPC, rather than having a disproportionately large increase).
-Increase the effectiveness of FF Armour so that it either uses fewer slots, or provides a greater reduction.
-If hit detection issues are hammered out in the future, a slight damage reduction based on speed, to represent shots being more apt to glancing (or being spread in the case of lasers). This means that it's additional speed actually helps it, rather than just making it harder to pilot.

Edited by Sable Dove, 15 October 2013 - 05:17 PM.

[Sable Dove]

Here's a couple more ideas:
-Increase acceleration and decceleration significantly.
-Increase torso twist range. Maybe 160 degrees?
-Increase torso pitch. Maybe 35-40 degrees?
-Give all variants Jumpjets.
-Reduce leg hitbox size (opposite of the old Raven nerf)

[Merix]

Also, the locust is supposed to be a scout mech, but scouting is virtually impossible without an ECM. At least 1 variant needs an ECM.

[Cardos]

u guys are complainingh that the lightest mech didnt have an advantage over all others? seriously?

let me point one out for u.....it is not just the lightest mech.....its also the cheapest one and it really is devastating in swarms...

[Merix]

Cardos, on 15 October 2013 - 06:00 PM, said:

u guys are complainingh that the lightest mech didnt have an advantage over all others? seriously?

let me point one out for u.....it is not just the lightest mech.....its also the cheapest one and it really is devastating in swarms...

It doesn't even need an advantage, it just needs to be remotely comparable. In its current state it is not.

[William Knight]

Merix, on 15 October 2013 - 06:13 PM, said:

It doesn't even need an advantage, it just needs to be remotely comparable. In its current state it is not.

Just wait until they get speed tweak.

[Sable Dove]

William Knight, on 15 October 2013 - 06:16 PM, said:

Just wait until they get speed tweak.

Speed tweak doesn't help much when one shot anywhere will pretty much kill you.

[Shredhead]

Sable Dove, on 15 October 2013 - 06:26 PM, said:

Speed tweak doesn't help much when one shot anywhere will pretty much kill you.

Then don't put yourself in front of a freaking gun! It is a 20 ton mech, only useful for ***** and giggles, nothing more. And no, it does not have to be "comparable" to anything, because at the moment it's the only 20 ton, and thus the weakest, mech in game. Deal with it!

[Sable Dove]

Shredhead, on 15 October 2013 - 06:44 PM, said:

Then don't put yourself in front of a freaking gun! It is a 20 ton mech, only useful for ***** and giggles, nothing more. And no, it does not have to be "comparable" to anything, because at the moment it's the only 20 ton, and thus the weakest, mech in game. Deal with it!

So basically you're saying that no one should ever use anything but the Atlas, because it's the heaviest (and thus, the best) mech in the game. No other mech has a role or something that makes it worth playing. So why do I keep seeing other mechs? Shouldn't it just be 12 Atlases on each team?

PGI has said that they want role warfare so that every class has a role, and no mech can be the 'best' mech, regardless of weight. The Locust doesn't have a role. They suck at everything. There is no good reason to take a Locust.

[Cardos]

Sable Dove, on 15 October 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

So basically you're saying that no one should ever use anything but the Atlas, because it's the heaviest (and thus, the best) mech in the game. No other mech has a role or something that makes it worth playing. So why do I keep seeing other mechs? Shouldn't it just be 12 Atlases on each team?

PGI has said that they want role warfare so that every class has a role, and no mech can be the 'best' mech, regardless of weight. The Locust doesn't have a role. They suck at everything. There is no good reason to take a Locust.

Nope, he is just saying that IT IS THE LIGHTEST MECH and thus cant be compared 1 on 1 to the other HEAVIER ones. Also the cheapest one.....you get what u pay for. btw....if you invest the cbills for an atlas or stalker in locusts, you get a swarm that shreds those.....IF the players adapt to that chassis and dont try to make a head to head out of it. so to say, its for engaging from the side or back, and immediatly disengage if you cant stay out of the others firearc......engaging again if there is a better angle/chance.....is it that hard to comprehend?

[Shredhead]

Sable Dove, on 15 October 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

So basically you're saying that no one should ever use anything but the Atlas, because it's the heaviest (and thus, the best) mech in the game. No other mech has a role or something that makes it worth playing. So why do I keep seeing other mechs? Shouldn't it just be 12 Atlases on each team?

PGI has said that they want role warfare so that every class has a role, and no mech can be the 'best' mech, regardless of weight. The Locust doesn't have a role. They suck at everything. There is no good reason to take a Locust.

And what would buffing those nasty lights even more do about that problem? Nothing. That's a problem with ingame rewards and mechanics, not with the mech. Even if lights get more rewards for doing light specific tasks, the Locust will still be the crappiest light. As I said, deal with it.
Also what Cardos said ^

[RavenGenesis]

I'm not a light pilot, i'm terrible at it... but this was what I did today...

1, i ran my locust to scout for enemy positions, relayed that, but being so fragile I didn't want to be the spot marker, so I marked and ran off to find the second group.

2, second group had LRMs raining on me, and so I booked it from there too, but at this point, both sides are engaging but my team fully know where they are

3, I ran to their base and went for a cap distraction, and lol and behold, 3 of them charged at me, and our team just over ran their assaults as their support fire ran off

did i die? totally, was it worth it... absolutely.. I play for the win and the enjoyment of effective gameplay, sure I made nothing for CBills, but I enjoyed it...

Then I got on my bushwakka atlas and rolled face to make up for CBills, done deal

[Sable Dove]

Cardos, on 15 October 2013 - 07:08 PM, said:

Nope, he is just saying that IT IS THE LIGHTEST MECH and thus cant be compared 1 on 1 to the other HEAVIER ones. Also the cheapest one.....you get what u pay for. btw....if you invest the cbills for an atlas or stalker in locusts, you get a swarm that shreds those.....IF the players adapt to that chassis and dont try to make a head to head out of it. so to say, its for engaging from the side or back, and immediatly disengage if you cant stay out of the others firearc......engaging again if there is a better angle/chance.....is it that hard to comprehend?

It doesn't compare 1 on 1 to any other mech though. It's useless. It can't do anything special besides going fast, which doesn't help your team win unless you cap, which isn't fun for anyone.

Shredhead, on 15 October 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

And what would buffing those nasty lights even more do about that problem? Nothing. That's a problem with ingame rewards and mechanics, not with the mech. Even if lights get more rewards for doing light specific tasks, the Locust will still be the crappiest light. As I said, deal with it.
Also what Cardos said ^

It's not really a problem with rewards because the mech isn't capable of actually doing anything that's worth rewarding. It can't fight, it can't ambush, it can't scout, it can't flank. When assault mechs can swing around 180 degrees in less than a second, anything you accomplish is basically however long the person you're shooting decides to ignore you.

Yeah, it's weak, and it's not meant for direct fights. Unfortunately, your choices are either fight or cap. Scouting helps a tiny bit on big maps. Actually getting behind a competent team and surviving for more than ten seconds is virtually impossible. Capping is just a way of ensuring that everyone loses.

It's a scout mech that can't scout effectively, in a game where scouting doesn't help the team much.


I don't know. Maybe you guys are facing less competent enemies, because all the things you describe don't work if the other team isn't horrendous. They don't get you rewards, and they don't help your team win. You get spotted, and a light or streak-boat promptly comes and destroys you. I mean, yeah; maybe if your opponents are terrible it has uses, but against competent enemies, the Locust is complete garbage.

[DeaconW]

Sable Dove, on 15 October 2013 - 06:52 PM, said:

PGI has said that they want role warfare so that every class has a role, and no mech can be the 'best' mech, regardless of weight.

"Role Warfare". I don't think that phrase means what you think it means. Then again, I am not sure PGI does either...

[Conjure]

I'm loving all the crappy locust builds. I'm also loving all the other new mechs. No one has pilot trees or upgrades. Plus no one is used to piloting them. I felt like a pro today with a 100+ score over and over again in my Atlas. Wish I could claim that more often

Edited by Conjure, 15 October 2013 - 08:06 PM.

[Jman5]

Quote

In truth, the problem isn't the Locust itself; it's an issue with many gameplay mechanics. Mechs in general are too agile (in terms of torso-twist/pitch, arm movement, turning, etc.), so the only way to give the Locust an advantage is to make it even more agile, at which point it simply becomes more difficult to pilot or aim. Without any efficiencies, and with mouse sensitivity at 0.4, the locust turns its torso far faster than the camera can keep up, so increasing the speed is only going to make it more difficult to aim.

This isn't necessarily patch feedback, but I have to agree with this point. Heavies and assaults are too agile and it makes it a nightmare for smaller mechs. I've been playing a 75 ton Orion lately and no matter what the light does, it really isn't hard to get him back in your line of sight. Almost every heavy/assault build I come across run upper echelon engines for their mech so the negatives of slower engines are almost absent from the game.

I think torso twist and turn rate speeds need to be re-examined for assaults and heavies.

[Dirus Nigh]

Im starting to think PGI should consider rolling back all the torso, and arm movement increases myself. Its getting to have to much of a twitch feel in any thing smaller than an assault.

The locust needs the cage around the cockpit removed. The pilots seat so to far back. it needs to be pushed forward and lowered.
The battlemaster could be moved in the same manner.

I honestly think the locust is lacking in proper fire power.

The 1V and 3S needs a second energy point in the CT.

4 missile points are to much for the 3S. Missile weapons weigh to much for that to be effective. You might be able to squeeze in four streaks, but that will cost to much armor or speed. Four SRM 2s is just silly. This mech needs a second energy point.

The mech could be slightly smaller. Mostly in width.

Edited by Dirus Nigh, 15 October 2013 - 08:55 PM.