60 replies to this topic

[Viges]

Wispsy, on 16 October 2013 - 02:13 PM, said:

Allow light mechs to heal other mechs.

I want to kick you so much for this suggestion...


The only problem with lights in this game is pilots who want to solo brawl heavy mechs and do no scouting at all. All they want is 150+ speed and firepower of Atlas. And Im sick of their whining. Learn to play lights.

Good lights know when to run on your back and shoot, distract, swarm, give intel, tag and much more. There are a lot of things they can do already. But all they want is more firepower, speed and armor to stand in front of Atlas and shoot it.

Edited by Viges, 17 October 2013 - 12:34 AM.

[Rasc4l]

MoarDakka, on 16 October 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

The engine size and hit detection changes are great. Lights are great. But now we're seeing more accurate examples of combat potential from the smaller mechs. It's becoming obvious that anything smaller than, and possibly including, the spider severely under performs in combat duties compared to the beefier and better armed lights. As such, it's time to go back to the drawing board for the scouting role. The question is then, how do we better incentivize the scout role so people will choose to do it and how can we increase the team play synergy.

Post suggestions, go!

Here's my suggestion to fix this issue and a couple more:

http://mwomercs.com/...are-your-input/

[Thunder Child]

Voivode, on 16 October 2013 - 12:57 PM, said:

A reward for sighting enemies that breaks down in two ways:

1) An initial reward for sighting the enemy that is a set amount.

2) A gradual reward that grows as you provide targeting to other mechs. The longer the time you are providing target info and the larger the number of mechs at once you do this for, the greater the reward.

Other than that, a cash reward for shooting a mech whilst it is capping a base. A reward for capping a base (higher for light mechs). And maybe a reward for your AMS shooting missiles inbound for a teammate.

YAY! My Dual AMS Locust approves this idea!

.... And having read to the end of the thread....
What about being able to 'Ping' locations on the battlegrid? Sure, it requires the light pilot to find and press the "b" key, and then figure out where they are on the map. Maybe swing around on the spot a few times to make sure they are facing North. Check the alignment of the stars / angle of the sun. And then just click the grid on the map, and coordinates are printed in team chat. Or they could place a marker with a tag attached to it (writing tag, not a TAG), and drag it around with "3 Heavy", etc.

Of course, trolls would probably set Markers all around there Allies, with 12 Atlas at each...

Edited by Thunder Child, 17 October 2013 - 01:10 AM.

[LordRush]

Funny....It's been plastered across three pages now.
Over and over.
In a nustshell...reward us.
Reward us when we get locked on by a bunch of missile jockies and we STILL give you lock and you don't fire back
Reward us when your precious Atlas gets surrounded by lites and the other lites come and save your a$$
Reward us for following your order not to engage and the entire team ignores the lites intel
When I have 400 damage and the two assaults on my team dont even combine to total..AND I am the last survivor and your telling me to "power down somewhere" REWARD US!
Reward us when your the last man standing and the only viable option is to cap...you make the choice against any order knowing your instinct is saying "do it"...with success.
Reward us when we are ordered or we see the need to rtb,and we dispose with effectiveness.

Fer cryin out loud PGI..the writing is on the wall. Give us lites something that defines us and our role.Something to strive for. And I really do hope the implementation to achievements will be along this level.

*ok...maybe Im being a little facetious

Edited by LordRush, 17 October 2013 - 01:21 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

Ah yes, Role Warfare. The unicorn of the game that will never come to be. Kind of like individualized talent trees based on what role you wanted to fill. Yep, promises promises.

[Taemien]

I better not see any supporters of turning Assault into Deathmatch supporting this thread. The irony and hypocrisy would just be too much.

As for other issues...

Asakara, on 16 October 2013 - 08:54 AM, said:

I believe the best way is to put in integrated voice comms. It is much easier to say "5 assaults in B3 heading to B4" than it is to type it out in battle.

Integrated comms isn't the end and be all of scouting/solo player issues. If you've ever played any games that have them (EQ, EQ2, PS2, BF2142, ect) you'd know that many people don't even use them. Most even shut them off. You can blame XBox Live for it if you want. But the simple fact of the matter is, people don't want to listen to you. Nothing against you personally, but they just don't think you're important enough or think you might be an annoying kid.

Thats the great thing about TS, everyone who uses it, wants to use it. Personally with integrated voice, I'd mute it. I use TS and I'd mute the IG voice if it existed. Why? Because my tactics are unfair, unorthodox and I use configs that aren't boats. I don't need someone breathing down my neck because they can't think outside the box (and getting 2-3x the KDR and score they are).

So for PUGs, IG voice would never replace typing. Better just get used to typing.

General Taskeen, on 16 October 2013 - 08:58 AM, said:

C3 Master Computers as well bro.

PGI made a woopsie in the early development of the game when they allowed any friendly Mech that sees something and targets it, any of their friends can also shoot missiles at them even if they don't have LOS. Never worked like in other Mech Warriors games, that I played anyway.

I see this pop up once in a while and shake my head. C3 isn't needed to share target info. Infantry... INFANTRY can share target info with BattleMechs. As in a little dude with a rifle can share target info. Forcing C3 to be needed for this is just wasting more tonnage on those little mechs. The only reason people want to see this is they want to cripple lights just a little bit more, even if its ton by ton.

Only thing C3 does is make it easier for far way mechs to hit something when a teammate is closer. That doesn't fit into MechWarrior. Would have been a great thing for MechCommander, which all mechs there did have C3, its what canonically (at least in the game) made the MechCommander system work.

C3 was something added to IS lances and companies in the TT to offset the advantages that the clans have. Now you can make 20+ hex shots at only a +2 or even +0 modifier while your clanner opponents are at +2 and +4.

When clicking to fire isn't a mechanic in this game, then C3 will have a use. But then it wouldn't be MechWarrior.

[General Taskeen]

Taemien, on 17 October 2013 - 07:55 AM, said:

I see this pop up once in a while and shake my head. C3 isn't needed to share target info. Infantry... INFANTRY can share target info with BattleMechs. As in a little dude with a rifle can share target info. Forcing C3 to be needed for this is just wasting more tonnage on those little mechs. The only reason people want to see this is they want to cripple lights just a little bit more, even if its ton by ton.

Only thing C3 does is make it easier for far way mechs to hit something when a teammate is closer. That doesn't fit into MechWarrior. Would have been a great thing for MechCommander, which all mechs there did have C3, its what canonically (at least in the game) made the MechCommander system work.

C3 was something added to IS lances and companies in the TT to offset the advantages that the clans have. Now you can make 20+ hex shots at only a +2 or even +0 modifier while your clanner opponents are at +2 and +4.

When clicking to fire isn't a mechanic in this game, then C3 will have a use. But then it wouldn't be MechWarrior.

First of all. FALSE. FALSE. FALSE.

C3 Master Computers do more than you are stating, and did a lot of cool things in previous Mech Warrior Games. A. A C3 Master Computer ALSO is a TAG.

Quote

C3 Command Unit also duplicates the function of Target Acquisition Gear

Second of all. I play Light Mechs, so your assumption is false that "they would be neutered" or that my suggestion implies "I want them neutered.

Were Light Mechs neutered in previous Mech games if they needed to use TAG, NARC, or C3 to get some indirect fire support? The answer is No, Captain Crunch, they were not.

Third of all. Think outside the TT box for the purpose of such equipment. MW:LL is an example of C3 Master's and Slaves working perfectly fine in a real-time Mech Warrior game (also was in previous Mech Warrior games).

Last of all. There is no Infantry in this game, so please stop using magical definitions for reasons why One Mech that is battling someone behind a Boat, can magically share the loadout of the Mech they are firing on without any team mates being in line of sight.

Radar and indirect fire was far more balanced in previous titles. Especially with radar where you could "see" something in Active, target it, yet not know what it was or shoot missiles at it. Because balance.

Edited by General Taskeen, 17 October 2013 - 08:09 AM.

[stjobe]

LordRush, on 17 October 2013 - 01:16 AM, said:

Funny....It's been plastered across three pages now.
Over and over.
In a nustshell...reward us.
Reward us when we get locked on by a bunch of missile jockies and we STILL give you lock and you don't fire back
Reward us when your precious Atlas gets surrounded by lites and the other lites come and save your a$$
Reward us for following your order not to engage and the entire team ignores the lites intel
When I have 400 damage and the two assaults on my team dont even combine to total..AND I am the last survivor and your telling me to "power down somewhere" REWARD US!
Reward us when your the last man standing and the only viable option is to cap...you make the choice against any order knowing your instinct is saying "do it"...with success.
Reward us when we are ordered or we see the need to rtb,and we dispose with effectiveness.

Fer cryin out loud PGI..the writing is on the wall. Give us lites something that defines us and our role.Something to strive for. And I really do hope the implementation to achievements will be along this level.

*ok...maybe Im being a little facetious

Couldn't agree more (and I've been singing the very same song for quite some time now).

[MustrumRidcully]

Rewarding stuff that low armored and lightly armored mechs can do is neat and all, but in the end - it's not meaning that they perform a critical role for the game. I am not just playing the game because I want C-Bills or XP. I want to contribute, I don't want to feel like ineffectual baggage.

So, yeah, role warfare. We need more useful modules, and very light mechs and medium mechs need the ability to carry more of them than most mechs. Modules should bascially make up the difference in tonnage that these mechs have compared to the ones that are competing in their area of expertise.

[Khobai]

These are my suggestions:

1) Turn NARC into a scouting tool. NARC should allow us to keep track of enemy mechs without LoS. That said, NARC should give LoS to whatever enemy mech its attached to and NARC should have a very lengthy duration (2-3 minutes). NARC beacons should also have a percentage chance of being destroyed whenever the mech its attached to takes damage. NARC and TAG should also not use weapon hardpoints.

2) Remove detailed sensor information completely. The only way to see detailed sensor information should be by doing a "deep scan" on enemy mechs. Similar to how you used to inspect other mechs/vehicles in MW2. In order to do a deep scan on an enemy mech you should have to have a specific module or BAP installed and get within X meters of an enemy mech and press 'V' or whatever to deep scan it. Once you deep scan an enemy mech, the rest of your team would gain access to that information via a new overlay screen (similar to the map overlay but it would show the designation and status of all enemy mechs and whatever information your team has learned about them so far). Scouting should be a vital part of the game and basically you should not be able to obtain any information on the enemy team unless you have scouts.

3) Add passive sensor mode and null signature system to the game. More stealth means scouting becomes more important.

4) Balance the chassis'. Add scouting quirks to certain mechs (i.e. raven gets sensor bonus, etc...). Make sure medium mechs are better in direct combat than lights in order to force lights to perform roles other than combat.

[focuspark]

Make tiny mechs harder to detect so that hey can spot targets without being seen instantly on radar. Make it so LCT and COM have a 30% reduced detection range (as in enemy 'mechs see them at 800 x 70% = 560m + BAP & module modifiers).

This allows tiny mechs to spot for their bigger friends while not just being PPC bait.

[focuspark]

My suggested feature to improve scouting: http://mwomercs.com/...age__mode__show

[Wispsy]

So we should rename light mechs to scout mechs...should this include the cicada?

[Khobai]

Quote

So we should rename light mechs to scout mechs...should this include the cicada?

Not all light mechs would have to be scouts, but scouting should be a vital role, and if one team scouts and another team doesnt then the team that scouted should have the advantage. So scouting needs to be important enough that you can lose if no one on your team does it.

[aniviron]

Give something the ability to target multiple mechs at once. Could be a module, could be BAP, don't care. But make it such that if you're in a light and you have LOS on the whole enemy team, you can relay 4-5 red boxes to your teammates. In-game VOIP would be great too, but even without that and with people who ignore text chat, everyone is going to see "oh look tons of enemies on my screen over there" and they'll know where your foes are. Would probably require tweaking, i.e. only the first mech you target gets a loadout/damage scan or something, but very doable.

[Taemien]

General Taskeen, on 17 October 2013 - 08:06 AM, said:

First of all. FALSE. FALSE. FALSE.

C3 Master Computers do more than you are stating, and did a lot of cool things in previous Mech Warrior Games. A. A C3 Master Computer ALSO is a TAG.

[size=5][size=3]

Second of all. I play Light Mechs, so your assumption is false that "they would be neutered" or that my suggestion implies "I want them neutered.

Were Light Mechs neutered in previous Mech games if they needed to use TAG, NARC, or C3 to get some indirect fire support? The answer is No, Captain Crunch, they were not.

Third of all. Think outside the TT box for the purpose of such equipment. MW:LL is an example of C3 Master's and Slaves working perfectly fine in a real-time Mech Warrior game (also was in previous Mech Warrior games).

Last of all. There is no Infantry in this game, so please stop using magical definitions for reasons why One Mech that is battling someone behind a Boat, can magically share the loadout of the Mech they are firing on without any team mates being in line of sight.

Radar and indirect fire was far more balanced in previous titles. Especially with radar where you could "see" something in Active, target it, yet not know what it was or shoot missiles at it. Because balance.

You're using the locust? Tell me how adding an extra ton of equipment that will oust a medium laser will help that thing? The 35 ton mechs have enough weight for it, but everything else does not.

I also never said that light mechs needed those equipment types in the previous games, so no idea what tangent you're going off on there.

Reason I bring up infantry is it doesn't take much more than a dude with a radio to say, "Fire over here!" I learned the basics of that in Army BCT. So a battlemech wouldn't have any issue.

We'll think outside the box for a moment, for the sake of argument. C3 Master and Slave, whats the chances someone's going to be running a 5 ton 5 crit C3 Master in a PUG? Knowing those odds, whats going to be the point of running the slave? Its going to have to do far more than simply sharing targeting info to make it worth the while.

Oh and on that subject... ECM wrecks havoc with that, especially if you get a raven or DDC humping the leg of a C3 Master equipped mech.

If you're going to think outside the box, you need to go quite a bit further. Which was actually my point. Using what everyone suggested and nerfing the sharing of targeting info to be replaced by C3 isn't enough. There needs to be something juicy that requires at least 6 tons of equipment (5 for Master and 1 for at least one slave per mech that is joining this network).

Just remember, people are clamoring for teamwork nerfs in solo play. Take away sharing and giving it to pretty much only premades is going to cause a riot.

[Hammerhai]

FIX TEXT COMMS AND BATTLEMAP

When driving with a throttle you come to a dead stop ALL THE TIME when opening chat or battlemap. And just to throw this out there - again - that is most likely NOT a game engine issue, for it did not happen before Mid Sept/Oct 2012. With respect to Bryan Ekman, I contend his belief it is the engine.

I really resent being killed because I am the perfect target while warning the team

[Gozer]

Something I would suggest is an in game "called target mechanic." Kind of like in ARMA and other games (I believe Battlefield the snipers get a similiar "call out/spot" ability) where you spot a target, push a button, and it automatically gets added to the map as a unit even if you don't have lock it's "reported". So you know it's there but you can't lock to it.

Then when they lose sight they become "ghost images" of the unit that fade away so you get a "last known" on the unit.

[stjobe]

Hammerhai, on 18 October 2013 - 12:27 AM, said:

When driving with a throttle you come to a dead stop ALL THE TIME when opening chat or battlemap.

ESC - Options - uncheck Enable Throttle Decay.

That said, we really, really, REALLY need some hotkeys to quickly relay information to our team/lance. Something like "Contact in grid Nx", "<mech type> in grid Nx", "Need assistance in grid Nx" and so on.

[Hammerhai]

Thank you for the suggestion StJobe, however this is an old issue going back to CB long before Throttle Decay -which is disabled, btw.