50 replies to this topic

[Wookiemart]

I mean I haven't really put in much time in the trial versions so it's hard for me to know what it's like to play one extensively on the field.

But I'm noticing a recurring pattern in a lot of matches, Atlas shying away from engaging enemy targets, taking potshots here and there.

I was just in a game piloting my shadow hawk where I found myself leading 2 atlas in a charge over the mountain pass in the new crimson map. We knew there was at least one target on the other side but sitting there and yoyoing at each other was getting us nowhere so i pushed on. thankfully the 2 atlas followed suite and once we dispatched the opponent we found the coast was clear all the way to their base. We knew there was a struggle in the tunnel under the mountain so I urged them to follow me so we could flank the enemy but they both just turned tail and went to wait in line to get taken out in the killbox the opponents had setup. So I found myself soon after being the only mech standing alone with another shadow hawk who was attempting a base capture as a last ditch effort. I positioned myself so as to get a few shots off at anyone coming to stop his cap, I was lucky enough to get a second kill but was soon taken out by the overwhelming force returning to their base.

This is basically what I am encountering a LOT these days, so i can't help but wonder what I am missing here. Why are Atlas not leading the charge, that's what the "assault" part of assault mech means right?

I can understand not wanting to go in alone but I figure two assaults and a medium make for a descent enough flank line.

i guess if the roles of each mech were better defined within the game mechanics people would understand a little better what it is they are supposed to do?

What if there was some sort of bonus for leading a charge, obeying orders given out by the battalion leader.

I mean I love this game a lot but man sometimes the pug rounds can be quite painful to suffer through.


EDIT:

Thanks for the feedback guys, things are a little more clear now.

Will definitely try to apply new approaches to the battlefield with this intel in hand.

Regarding the mountain pass in the crimson map I now pack UAV's to get clear intel on whether or not there is a contingent sitting on the other side waiting to blow us all to hell. It gives whatever LRM boat we have a chance to get off a few shots if there are any targets. And if the coast is clear some lights and mediums and hopefully a few fast heavies can follow through to a flanking manoeuvre.

I think with using the UAV and TAG heck even the NARC if need be to highlight more clearly what target you are attacking, it makes it a little easier for puggers to know where to hit.

Edited by Wookiemart, 17 October 2013 - 07:14 AM.

[Bilbo]

They may be gun shy. They quite often get left ******* in wind when their "support" evaporate like ghosts.

[GODzillaGSPB]

Ask PGI what they thought when adding 12 versus 12 and leaving us hanging in the balance hell until droplimits arrive. If you are THE biggest target on the field and potentially have to fear 12 enemy Atlas (yeah...exaggerating, max I've seen was 7 in the enemy team, we had 4), you'd hide too.

[Father Tork]

It's tough. Atlas' working in tandem are devastating, but in PUGs they're really questionable based on my experience. Best habit I've found thus far is to only stay slightly ahead of them, and bring the enemy to them when possible.

[Wookiemart]

GODzillaGSPB, on 16 October 2013 - 09:54 AM, said:

Ask PGI what they thought when adding 12 versus 12 and leaving us hanging in the balance hell until droplimits arrive. If you are THE biggest target on the field and potentially have to fear 12 enemy Atlas (yeah...exaggerating, max I've seen was 7 in the enemy team, we had 4), you'd hide too.

I agree that improvements to the game are implemented in a reverse order kind of way. But ultimately the game is what players make of it right?
And yes communicating tactics in a pug game is not the simplest of tasks I know. But a friend of mine has started training players who don't really know where to focus their fire by using his tag to highlight a main target, not just for LRM boats but also for the brawlers he hangs around with to help them all focus a little better.

that's one way to make players aware of what's going on in the battle I think.

Edited by Wookiemart, 16 October 2013 - 10:06 AM.

[SweetJackal]

A few reasons. The Trail Atlas is the Champion Base configuration. This means a pair of LRM-15s+A, 4 MLs and a GR. The GR is a pain to use in a Brawl compared to any AC and the mech has some pretty bad range dysfunction as a result. It's slow speed means it is more tempting to poke out and pop out targets from a distance as that is what most of the tonnage of the mech is devoted to.

[Matthoos]

Like most people here have already stated, I feel that they're just such large targets on the battlefield, that with a lack of support in PUGs, it's suicidal to run into the front line guns blazing.
Doing that, you'll most likely be cored quickly and then left feeling like you just wasted your time.

My 2 cents.

[Otto Cannon]

Atlai are slow. If you commit to an attack and your team all decide to leave the area for suddenly remembered urgent appointments when they see the enemy are stronger than they expected you have no chance to get away and try again. After a few dozen times of being focus fired into atoms in that situation most people get a bit wary of sacrificing their own C-bill earnings for teams who never seem to appreciate it or offer support.

Sadly the current game encourages each player to hang back until others have sacrificed themselves softening the enemy and then steam into the damaged mechs to get some easy kills and damage.

Edit: When there's a trial Atlas then clearly you'll also get people who aren't confident enough assault pilots to feel they can lead a charge from the front.

Edited by Otto Cannon, 16 October 2013 - 10:16 AM.

[One Medic Army]

Bilbo, on 16 October 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They may be gun shy. They quite often get left ******* in wind when their "support" evaporate like ghosts.

This is part of it, the other part is the way you get individual Elo scores for each weight class, and with the relative strengths of mediums vs assaults, it's highly likely that you're just getting matched with very poor assault pilots. Poor enough assault pilots that you can kill them in your medium.

[Father Tork]

As annoyed as I get with Atlai players refusing to move forward, I understand not wanting to go over the hill end end up being alone.

That said, if you're an Atlas pilot and you see me standing next to me, we can die together

[Shadey99]

PUGs are horrible mostly do to poor communications in general. I have just shy of 2000 PUG matches I've played and it's all to common for teams to fall like dominoes given even the slightest nudge, rather than rallying to overcome their common enemies.

While voice communications would be easiest to fix this... I'd take a few static 'Function Key' commands like 'assist', 'retreat', 'fire at...', 'advance to...' Things most games have had for years. '3rd person view' can move to the home keys or something and communications can go to the easy to reach function keys. I would be willing to bet a atlas that simple communication tools would improve tactics usage by 20% or more.

Edited by Shadey99, 16 October 2013 - 10:34 AM.

[Wookiemart]

One Medic Army, on 16 October 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

This is part of it, the other part is the way you get individual Elo scores for each weight class, and with the relative strengths of mediums vs assaults, it's highly likely that you're just getting matched with very poor assault pilots. Poor enough assault pilots that you can kill them in your medium.

Yeah that ELO thing is really weird, I don't know why they did not go with the Battle Value calculation system instead. It's a much better way of balancing opposing sides.

in the tabletop anyway.

[DaZur]

Two words: "New Players"

Battlefields a scary place...

I've been politely "urging on" assault pilots I find playing peek-a-boo in the rear to get out and spearhead.

We complain about pilots not knowing and or fulfilling their battlefield role... None more obvious that what an assault pilot is supposed to do.

Wonder when Mediums and heavies will fill their jack-of-all role? Yup... as soon as lights scout and assaults spearhead.

[All24Cans]

I drive Atlas' a lot. I prefer brawling at short-range. The Atlas is a big slow target, and even with full armor on the CT, it goes down quickly under the fire of a few heavies. It can't go alone, so Atlas pilots tend to follow what the others are doing, and will wait for the enemy to break apart. Maps with bottle-necks make the kill-box problem worse. If an Atlas charges ahead, even with some support, it gets cut down first, always. The lack of voice is the real pug killer.

In my battles, I see scouts not scouting, but capping. ECM mechs run off, and then don't counter-ECM. People don't lock targets for LRM support. Pug matches effectively have no communication, or coordinated efforts. They generally lemming about, and ad-hoc it from there.

When I play on TeamSpeak (pre-mades), we have voice communications. We are easily able to coordinate efforts, work together, select targets, choose mechs before a drop, etc., and are far more effective. But getting a group together on TS can take an hour.

PGI needs to put in some kind of voice-comm.

[Hri CalAsha]

When I play my Atlai (which I am not really successful with, so far), I do try to spearhead assaults (that is, if I ever catch up with the main group in time for the fight). However, I most often find that even if I check for bodies left and right before I commit to an attack, I tend to end up facing what looks like the entire enemy team alone and soon find my view spinning around my smoking and isolated wreck.

So yeah, perhaps in coordinated groups, but for now, I'll leave the Atlas piloting to those who seem more successful with it than me.

[Alek Ituin]

Ok, no offense here Wookiemart, but you obviously have little to no experience in proper Assault piloting.


Just because a 'Mech has an "Assault" tag next to its name, does not automatically mean it's meant to face-tank and charge in first. Assaults are easily the worst 'Mechs to advance in, due to their slow speed and high vulnerability in the open as compared to their support. Because of that slow speed, once you commit to a battle, there is a snowball's chance in hell of being able to disengage.

This leads to a lot of Assault pilots being rightfully leery of risking their massive and expensive walking weapons platform just because somebody thinks they should. Assault 'Mechs may be capable of sheer brutal killing power, but they're a thinking mans 'Mech, because you have to plan five moves ahead of the enemy at all times to survive.

[PlzDie]

Bilbo, on 16 October 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

They may be gun shy. They quite often get left ******* in wind when their "support" evaporate like ghosts.

This is the reason why, and in my opinion the only reason.

[Training Instructor]

If lights and fast mediums would actually communicate what they were seeing, lonewolf atlas pilots would engage more. I'm an aggressive player, because I loathe boredom. *when I was in the Army on guard duty, I had plenty of patience*

I've slammed into an enemy hardpoint, twisting and unloading on mechs left and right.....and died after doing 500 damage in under 2 minutes. Then the team that abandoned me wins by scoring kills on the five mechs I scattered by coring them out. If they would have simply followed me all the way, rather than broken off the minute someone splashed them with a large laser, I probably wouldn't have died so fast.

Mediums and heavies need to go find the fires the Atlas is supposed to jump into. I think too many heavy pilots have this vision where their job is to unload on people and score all the damage, component destruction, and kills, while Atlases occupy their targets and die horribly.

Edited by Training Instructor, 16 October 2013 - 12:22 PM.

[Mehlan]

Quote

If lights and fast mediums would actually communicate what they were seeing, lonewolf atlas pilots would engage more. I'm an aggressive player, because I loathe boredom. *when I was in the Army on guard duty, I had plenty of patience*

However it can be difficult to type when you've got multiple mechs are on your arse... a miskey can mean being crippled or death. Then of course there's reporting where the enemy is, and is going and watching the team ignore the information, or watch 1/2+ of the team chase after the spider/jenner/commando that buzzed by. By far, most most common/frequent way to die is when both teams spend 1/2 the match playing peek-a-boo and trading lrms (or worse one side..usually the other is heavy lrm and my side is light/zero). So rush in, try to distract them (chase the bug) so the big guys on my side will find some cajones and push/attack.

Edited by Mehlan, 16 October 2013 - 12:30 PM.

[shulman87]

i play strictly atlas and im pretty good at it with a 2.4 kd after 900 matches , i'd like to think im pretty expirienced by now with an atlas , the problem is people tend to think atlas is a meatshield and i totally disagree .

that being said i wont go spearheading an assault if all my support is hanging back , i dont mind soaking up some damage but to a certain extent so it really depends on the team

and pilotiong an atlas as your first mech can be pretty hard (like i did) since your very slow and positioning is key

its a big *** mech and takes a while to get used to , so new player in an atlas = meatshield & likely to hide or die
veteran in an atlas = bad *** **** all around , its the kind of chassis that is less forgiving for new players that's all there is to it