183 replies to this topic

[Adridos]

Roadbeer, on 18 October 2013 - 11:06 AM, said:

Thats an even stupider statement. Why don't you just say that since your fries don't come DIRECTLY on your Big Mac that McDonalds has done nothing to provide you with fries.

Or are you just used to Happy Meals, where everything is in a nice package for you?

We're apparently trying to out-stupid each other, since you've just set a new bar in it. Your "example" would be correct if you had to go to another restaurant to get your fries to the meal. It would fit if there was an option in the settings that had to be checked for the VoiP to work, but we're nowhere near that.

...and I never ate, nor will eat at a fast food restaurant.

Joseph Mallan, on 18 October 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

Thats cause to many players are unable to accept that they choose to handicapped themselves and insist to blame others cause they won't take one extra step to play the game as intended. I made this argument before I became a Lawman, I am still making it. If you refuse to use the same mechanics that the groups do you have yourself to blame for your losses.

You are handicapping yourself, too. You can assemble a group that would be able to play 12v12 all day long. You have yourself to blame for being stuck with pugs and friends who can't play the game. There are mechanics in place for that, you just don't use them.

This stupid argument applies both ways...

[Roadbeer]

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

It would fit if there was an option in the settings that had to be checked for the VoiP to work, but we're nowhere near that.

Why do you need that when you can just launch the VoIP client. I'm sorry, but do you really need someone to hold your {Richard Cameron} for you? There is a check box to enable C3 right in the settings, have you ever used it? probably not.

Do you have any clue how hollow your arguments are?

Edited by Roadbeer, 18 October 2013 - 11:27 AM.

[Adridos]

Roadbeer, on 18 October 2013 - 11:25 AM, said:

Do you have any clue how hollow your arguments are?

Do you?

My argument stands. Unless the game is changed in a way that allows for fair ground for both sides, the 4 player limit is a necessary addition. If you don't have a meaningful, constructive solution that solves the problem (and problem is on both sides, you don't solve a problem by eliminating the fun for an entire part of your userbase... and your suggestion is as good as someone else asking to have grouping outside of 12 people completely removed from the game not to ruin the experience of the other part of the player base) then don't even bother responding to this, since I definitely won't bother responding to someone who doesn't even have the decency to act maturely in a discussion.

[WKMitchell]

I am sorry but no I have a large clan that plays that I am part of from all the way back to MW4, but that doesn't mean they are on at the same time I am. I work nights now which means there is nobody playing when I am on. So should I be forced to deal with groups of 4-11 that just want to play for an easy win. I have played a lot of competitive games(WoT, Global Agenda, MW4 NBT leagues, etc) in the leagues and in the normal matchs and generally anything more 33% of the team being on comms, with complementing mech designs, and acutally working together as a team is devastating against your average pug team which is why. I vote no to this idea simply cause it will drive away more players then it keeps. (sorry for the formatting these forums wont allow me to use paragraph breaks for some reason) WKMitchell

[Roadbeer]

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

Do you?

My argument stands. Unless the game is changed in a way that allows for fair ground for both sides, the 4 player limit is a necessary addition.

Does it? All the tools are there, VoIP servers, player communities, everything you need to put yourself on the "fair ground". You act like the player communities and their VoIP servers were created by trolls to subvert the intention of the game. Everything you need to put yourself on a level playing field is there, you just choose not to avail yourself of it.

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 11:33 AM, said:

If you don't have a meaningful, constructive solution that solves the problem (and problem is on both sides, you don't solve a problem by eliminating the fun for an entire part of your userbase...

The solution is to remove the group caps, because a good portion of the fun has already been removed for a large part of the userbase, those who can't field 8/12 players on a consistent basis but have more than 4 friends or people in your unit.

Why is this so difficult for people to understand?

[Helbrecht]

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 10:55 AM, said:

Devs are against it (for some unknown reason), and so are our socially advanced brethren (for a much less mysterious reason).

adridos bro, the devs are not against it they already stated thier doing it. and the reason they gave was that MOST players play in groups. so unless somthing has changed behind the scenes and they have not posted" which can and has happened" we can expect to see groups change.

[WarHippy]

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

...and I never ate, nor will eat at a fast food restaurant.

You chose the correct faction you commie *******.

[AC]

Rizzwind, on 18 October 2013 - 07:11 AM, said:

Then pugs should find a group issue handled. Or wait till the game is a game and a lot of that will be fixed. Right now it's just CoD death match.

The problem is PGI intentionally left out any tools that would allow a single person to find a group in this game. They thought it might be used by outside leagues...and heaven forbid.... they allow their game to become more popular through 3rd party leagues!

The tools they needed were

1) A lobby - No... not the {Scrap} we have now, but an honest to god lobby. One where you drop in before a match, figure out a strategy with your team, and then drop into game. When you are done you can stay in the lobby and drop a second match with the same team. (or find another if you want) Right now if you find a cool group of people there is no way for you to play with them a second time. There is no in game friend tools, no ability to drop a second game with the same group, and really no tools to find/meet/make new friends in the game.

2) Voice Coms - If they had voice coms the PUGs would play more like a team and maybe find people they could form premades with. Not to mention vets could help noobs. Nothing is more frustrating than getting shot in the face while trying to type chat a new player how to move weapons groups or why their arms don't swing or why they are floating behind their mech.

It seemed that in the beginning PGI was so scared 3rd party leagues would steal their thunder they did everything possible to make the front end of the game as league unfriendly as possible. Unfortunately, they didn't understand that it also made the front end rather user unfriendly and new player unfriendly as well.

Edited by AC, 18 October 2013 - 01:26 PM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Adridos, on 18 October 2013 - 11:20 AM, said:

You are handicapping yourself, too. You can assemble a group that would be able to play 12v12 all day long. You have yourself to blame for being stuck with pugs and friends who can't play the game. There are mechanics in place for that, you just don't use them.

This stupid argument applies both ways...

And even handicapping myself by playing as a pure PUG since March I have a Win /loss record that is -1% off my Team Win/Loss record... I did it to see the plight of PUGs I lose 1% more matches as a PUG. ONE PERCENT. That is One more Loss per one hundred games playing as a PUG. Why would I want to blame anyone for a mere 1%?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 19 October 2013 - 03:11 AM.

[Poerisija]

Roland, on 18 October 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Currently, the inability for groups between 5-11 players to play together is severely harming the community of this game.

Because of that restriction, fewer people are playing the game, which is exacerbating all kinds of other matchmaking issues.

Every day that the player restriction stays in place, MWO is losing players.

MWO would be losing more players if organized groups were still allowed to stomp solo players like they were in beta.

For this game to have more than 500 active players, it NEEDS to be viable for people playing alone. I generally have 2-3 mates who play and I can tell you none of us would be playing if we were losing every match to a full 12-man premade.

"Join a group yourself" I hear you saying.

No, I won't.

Why?

Because if the people are like the ones advocating group size removals in this thread, I wouldn't want to play with them. Your new/solo-player hostility and elitism is what WILL kill this game eventually, if PGI doesn't do it first.

Edited by Poerisija, 19 October 2013 - 04:36 AM.

[ClumsyKlutz]

A weight limit would be nice.
Yesterday i had 2 strange matches, with no lights on the other side.
I looked at the team statistics after the battle and discovered, that in the first match, the enemy team was 60 tons heavier and the second it was 55 tons heavier. Thats means more tonnage, equivalent to one heavy mech.

[Joseph Mallan]

That is barely an advantage. Its equal to 5 tons per Mech!

[Lykaon]

Ngamok, on 18 October 2013 - 06:30 AM, said:

Hi, I want to make a group of 6-9 people and queue in the pug queue so me and my friends can roflstomp the other team. Also I don't want to sync drop against my friends either.

How about if BEFORE any sized groups are allowed these things happen.

Intergrated chat for everyone (allows puggies to have the same benefits as premades on the communication front)

Weight matching (So one side isn't under weight compared to the other and honestly to prevent cheesy premades from dropping 12 DDC Atlas ECM mechs)

Match maker adjustments to match group size with like sized groups or failing that multiple groups to match a larger group (this prevents most cases of pure puggy vs pure premade)


A casual puggie only queue that will grant C-bill and XP but will not impact Community warfare in any way and will not earn loyalty points.(this may be needed to prevent players from complaining about a host of issues like inexperienced player/untried mech loadouts/non elited mechs/or whatever else as a cause for a loss on an important CW match leading to QQ forum spam demanding something being done about it.)

[Roland]

Poerisija, on 19 October 2013 - 04:31 AM, said:

MWO would be losing more players if organized groups were still allowed to stomp solo players like they were in beta.

For this game to have more than 500 active players, it NEEDS to be viable for people playing alone. I generally have 2-3 mates who play and I can tell you none of us would be playing if we were losing every match to a full 12-man premade.

"Join a group yourself" I hear you saying.

No, I won't.

Why?

Because if the people are like the ones advocating group size removals in this thread, I wouldn't want to play with them. Your new/solo-player hostility and elitism is what WILL kill this game eventually, if PGI doesn't do it first.

What I have suggested for a long time is that we have two queues, one for ungrouped players, and one for everyone.

So if you really don't want to deal with groups at all, you can join the mercenary queue and play only with ungrouped players. If you want to play with groups, you are free to do so, regardless of how many players you have.

It is a much better system than we have currently.

[Lykaon]

Khobai, on 18 October 2013 - 07:01 AM, said:

They should remove group size limits but groups should always have to play against other groups. Premade vs PUG is never going to be balanced.

In my experience this is the case now.When ever I am in a 4 man the opposition team also has a 4 man team.I think much of the problem with the puggie/premade debate is perception.

I play in 12 mans 4 man and solo I see the full spectrum of how matches unfold from several perspectives.

Nearly every time I am in a 4 man I see at least 1 enemy premde present.Nearly every time I drop solo I have a premade on my team and the enemy is composed of at least one premade.

There are a few rare cases where I find one team lacks and obvious premade (maybe the premade was terrible) when the other has an obvious premade (all same faction/one lance performs exceptionally).

It is simply impractical to expect a single queue to accommodate any sized group without also using solo players to fill in the numbers for 12 players per team.

[Otto Cannon]

I think some people have bad memories of 8 man premades pugstomping because the MM used to cause it to happen.

The MM would try to match an 8 man premade with exactly the same mix of weight classes, which meant that because the chances of another large premade having the same mix were tiny the MM itself was actively making sure that premades almost always got matched against a selection of individual pugs cobbled together into an equivalent team in terms of weight class. The result was a boringly easy game for groups and a constant bumkicking for pugs.

As long as there's a MM system in place to prevent that happening again, and to try whenever possible to match larger premades against each other with a few pugs on both sides I have no problem at all with removing the group size limit.

[Lazor Sharp]

AS far as i can tell, the C3 voip check mark in the options menu does NOT WORK AT ALL, and has not worked since last Feb when i started playing/pugging........ so is not a viable alternative to using team speak etc... for premade 4 mans or 12 mans..... (if this changed, no one informed me)

As this game is promoted as a TEAM game, I Do not understand why this C3 Voip feature has not been activated since CB, so that solo/pugger players will always be talking to the other 11 random team mates, no matter who they are in each drop...... (if you don't want to talk to the others, than mute them...)

how do they expect players to find the other 11 players in a TS server any way...... even if all the players in any given random drop are on the same TS server...... if they are Not automatically grouped into the same channel for each drop......

And, that they expect players to type chat any thing during battle is insane, when your mech quits moving while you are typing/ looking at the map/ looking at the stat's, etc.... is going to get you killed promptly no matter who you are playing against.....

It seams that they are Hell Bent, to NOT let the random solo / puggers to communicate to each other by voice.......

I have to say, that if i had started out solo / pugging with Voip, my newbie experience would have been much better..... I finely got sick of it, and went and found the LONEWOLF'S TS server and started playing with them in 4 man's and the occasional 12 man's, when there are enough PPL on......

So PGI what gives on this issue....???

[Deathlike]

Guys, here are the answers to the topic question:

Is PGI going to remove those limits?

Yes.

When is PGI going to remove those limits?

Soon, ideally at the same time or after UI 2.0 is finally implemented.

Refer to AtD 49 for the answers.

Edit:

This thread again.

/sigh

There is a C3 installation MWO thing around the server. I believe that is what exists at the moment. It's a poor man/PUG integrator AFAIK. It'll connect all those PUGs using C3 if they are using it together... but considering the majority seem to be using TS3, including an effectively "official" NGNG/MWO TS3 server... I mean... you might as well cut off the nose despite the face.

http://mwo.downloadc3.com/

Edited by Deathlike, 19 October 2013 - 02:27 PM.

[Ferrohu]

Its a team game. If u dont have 8 or 12 ppl find more, or create a bigger clan...See its works both way.
Seriously if you do this say goodby to all the (very few) new players.

Edited by Ferrohu, 19 October 2013 - 03:18 PM.

[Screech]

Deathlike, on 19 October 2013 - 02:04 PM, said:

Is PGI going to remove those limits?

Yes.

But which limits are they removing? From the ATD 45 the original plan was to put in weight limits on groups and remove the group restrictions, including 12 mans. Can't do that anymore.

Edited by Screech, 19 October 2013 - 03:48 PM.