334 replies to this topic

[PEEFsmash]

The Highlander is so incredibly good that any time you can fit one into a competitive drop you do. There is a grand total of 0 quality competitive teams who wouldn't take a Highlander if they could. Highlanders crush lights 1v1 due to JJ turn rate, they crush heavies, other assaults, and mediums 1v1. They have literally no weaknesses whatsoever. They have high-mounted energy points, and quality hitboxes. They can use max engine and go fast enough, and JJs of course.

My suggestion is to lower all assault Highlander turn rates drastically. Lower the turn rates by 30% or more. This will allow HGNs to do most of the things they typically do, but they won't be able to be one-size-fits-all solutions to every single game regardless of situation. If a medium mech for example can get within brawling range, the Highlander should be in trouble keeping up instead of making the medium the next notch on the bedpost in about 5 seconds regardless of how well the Medium plays it.

The big question: Why do we spend our time in gameplay balance complaining about Spiders (which are bad, rarely competitively used and even more rarely competitively successful mechs, EVEN CONSIDERING THE SO-CALLED HIT DETECTION PROBLEMS), when there is universal agreement that Highlanders are the best mech in this game at almost everything? I think the reason is that everyone is fine with riding this gravy train, so they are keeping quiet.

EDIT: Agreed with the suggestion below, and edited my post.

Roland, on 19 October 2013 - 08:56 AM, said:

I tend to agree with your assessment of the highlander being stronger than most other assaults, but nerfing all of the assaults would still leave it at the top of the pile.

Perhaps focus attention on the highlander specifically rather than assaults in general.

Edited by PEEFsmash, 19 October 2013 - 09:11 AM.

[Thunderbird Anthares]

i think you have been hanging around the wrong people...
Highlanders are good mechs, but good for everything? i doubt that
every mech has a role, and if it cant fill the role, its the pilots fault (or because of one of the myriad of bugs, but whos counting)

[Roland]

I tend to agree with your assessment of the highlander being stronger than most other assaults, but nerfing all of the assaults would still leave it at the top of the pile.

Perhaps focus attention on the highlander specifically rather than assaults in general.

[Glucose]

What happens to a highlander if you nerf turn rates on all assaults and they still have JJ turning?

[PEEFsmash]

Glucose, on 19 October 2013 - 08:59 AM, said:

What happens to a highlander if you nerf turn rates on all assaults and they still have JJ turning?

Edited my suggestions based on these concerns.

[Lord Ikka]

Maybe. I don't think they are the end-all, be-all for competitive Assaults, but they are a good Mech. I think of them as the middle or all-around Assault, not really designed for extreme tanking or damage, but good at both.

[Sephlock]

What do you expect? They're the Princes of the Universe.

[Dymlos2003]

Ah so we have to listen to self proclaimed top players now?

[Roland]

dymlos2003, on 19 October 2013 - 09:23 AM, said:

Ah so we have to listen to self proclaimed top players now?

You could try to argue against the points made, if you like.

[YueFei]

Forget about 1v1's. Even with nerfed turn rates, they would still be fearsome in a deathball, because they can form into a combat box and cover each other. Even if you get within 90 meters of 1 to negate his PPCs, and his buddy 100 meters away will still core you.

I think the problem lies elsewhere, Highlanders are a symptom of it, and Homeless Bill has had the right idea all along, but we'll never see his proposal gain the light of day.

EDIT: I should also say that the relatively small maps and limited number of objectives feeds into the problem. Imagine we had wide open maps, multiple objectives. A need for real scouting to find where the enemy's balance of strength is. The area covered by the infrastructure that produces and supports Mechs is a much larger area than the mechs themselves can defend 100% of. And if you did spread out to cover 100% of it, you would be spread thin. Imagine you scatter a bunch of slow Highlanders all over the map. You could use a bunch of faster mechs to swarm them down and defeat them in detail. If they deathball it up and roflstomp across the map toward your territory, you could split up your faster mechs, avoid them and destroy the enemy's FOB, supply depot, munitions factory, etc., while slowing them down with your own heavies and assaults, artillery strikes, and what not. Imagine it's like a real battle where you could rotate units back to base to repair and re-arm. That enemy Highlander deathball would eventually be worn down through attrition, since they would lose their supporting infrastructure, be unable to repair or rearm, while your team could freely rotate mechs in and out of combat and repair and rearm.

Edited by YueFei, 19 October 2013 - 10:07 AM.

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Counter Point:

If a Misery or Atlas could mount Jump Jets, they would be just as good.

A victor doesn't have the tonnage to do similar loadouts with a Standard Engine/ enough armor values.

Edited by mwhighlander, 19 October 2013 - 09:36 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

mwhighlander, on 19 October 2013 - 09:35 AM, said:

Counter Point:

If a Misery or Atlas could mount Jump Jets, they would be just as good.

A victor doesn't have the tonnage to do similar loadouts with a Standard Engine/ enough armor values.

Done!

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Joseph Mallan, on 19 October 2013 - 09:37 AM, said:

Done!

Looks more like a jump pack then intergrated Jump Jets

[Roland]

Yes, the jump jets are key to its agility.

It may be a good rule of thumb to make mechs capable of jump jets less agile than their ground bound counterparts. So, for instance, mech's like the commando would be made more agile than the spider.

[Sephlock]

Just think: If they ever implement melee into the game, and give us access to these....

[Fherot]

So you want Highlanders to just be stationary pop tarts or some such. God forbid they can shoot the annoying lights circling them, don't attack assaults on your own.

[Joseph Mallan]

mwhighlander, on 19 October 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

Looks more like a jump pack then intergrated Jump Jets

Were you expecting a new casting for LE Atlas???

[80sGlamRockSensation David Bowie]

Interestingly, We're still all waiting for DFA and collisions, so the Highlander despite its 'amazingness' is still not a good as it should be.


Discuss.

[Joseph Mallan]

Sephlock, on 19 October 2013 - 09:39 AM, said:

Just think: If they ever implement melee into the game, and give us access to these....

These are Better!

[Lukoi Banacek]

I don't see that there is a need to not allow for a "best" in class of anything. Simply how life is. So, why nerf HGN's exactly? Are they somehow OP? Are they somehow unbalancing the game?

There are plenty of other Mechs played in 12mans, especially where tonnage limits/weight class bracketing occurs and CW is likely to include some of that, so really, what's the issue?