111 replies to this topic

[Sandpit]

Voidsinger, on 22 October 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

I believe the problem is people are trying to offer tactical solutions to what is in reality a problem of player behaviour. It diverts attention from the issue, which is people are foregoing teamplay in favour of something where they can exploit their teammates to their own benefit.

It DOES happen, and with increasing frequency. I've seen it, along with more cowardice, lack of initiative and other detrimental factors. To ignore this is simply sticking your head in the sand.

Yes, these behaviours will always exist, but we need to minimise them for the sake of game enjoyability.

Ok again I ask how? Aside from removing kill stats and team killing that is

[GRiPSViGiL]

I like the idea of a bonus for the amount of damage soaked up. We obviously get rewards for doing damage it only makes sense to get something for taking damage.

[Bagheera]

Voidsinger, on 22 October 2013 - 05:45 PM, said:

It DOES happen, and with increasing frequency. I've seen it, along with more cowardice, lack of initiative and other detrimental factors. To ignore this is simply sticking your head in the sand.

I don't see what you guys are describing - outside of poor decision making/driving - nearly as often as is being claimed. I almost never see someone clearly maliciously exploiting combat. I see people driving their mech like they are riding the proverbial short bus, but malicious intent hardly describes what I see most often in matches.

Look, it makes no sense for me, in a Hunchie, to go out into the open and start circling around like a big walking target. I find cover, I duck in and out of it and fire a big fat slug into a target hopefully without drawing too much attention to myself. Or I find an assault, sit off his left flank and launch extra hurt onto whatever they're fighting. It's just how that mech, with that build, work. It's hardly "lack of initiative" or "exploiting savior kills" (frankly, I don't even look at match rewards at this point, just click onto the next match) to utilize cover and focus your fire on what your teammates are shooting.

[xengk]

tvaughanx, on 22 October 2013 - 03:05 AM, said:

it makes me cry as an assault my job is to deal overall damage to the opposing body but too often do i notice people going for the kill thats why they should remove it from the game so the cod babies will have no goal then

I wish that is true.
I pilot mostly medium mech since day 1 of CBT and my KDR is only exactly 1.00.

Also I might be busy chasing away that light that tries to backstab you while you aren't looking.

Edited by xengk, 23 October 2013 - 01:04 AM.

[Mycrus]

My wlr is bigger than my kdr.

Why - I know my role on the battlefield... I am a skirmisher and I will disable slow mechs by taking out side torsos and I will leave the killing blow for my heavy hitters...

That is how you play a team game.

[Ensaine]

tvaughanx, on 21 October 2013 - 12:43 PM, said:

Did you read The OP i said that i don't care about my kdr the point of my post is that im taking to much damage while people are standing around waiting for the killing blow my overall concern is the TEAM-win not my kdr. Please inform the on what level of comprehension you would like me to break this down so you can understand what i am saying.

I play a lot of matches, and I don't see this, where people 'stand around' waiting for a kill shot.

What I DO see a lot, is people NOT using their mini map for situational awareness. Too many times I see 'killstealer' in chat, aimed at me, or whomever..... hey, you know what? I just walked around the corner, where I was fighting down a Hunchback, and lo and behold, there is an enemy mech behind that building: BOOM...... dead. Sorry about my luck.

Then, there are the people (too many) that use Zoom when in close combat. these individuals can't find their own butt with both hands, and are automatically clueless to their surroundings, even if the mini map slapped them in the face. To make it worse, are the people that use the Advanced Zoom mod in close combat... .like they want to target a zit on the mechs face.....again, these players are oblivious to their surroundings.

Point is, I'm betting that you were 100% oblivious to the fact that these mechs 'standing around' had issues they were contending with, finished their business, turned around, and blasted your enemy.

I DO occasionally see the lame, untouched Atlas, skulking through bushes, to end up capping. Yes, makes me want to pull his hair out......

Otherwise, I simply don't see what you're describing. What I DO see, is a KDR muffin saying it's not about KDR.

tvaughanx, on 22 October 2013 - 05:58 PM, said:

wow just wow

My thoughts exactly.

Edited by Ensaine, 23 October 2013 - 02:20 AM.

[Karl Streiger]

Bagheera, on 22 October 2013 - 06:58 PM, said:

Look, it makes no sense for me, in a Hunchie, to go out into the open and start circling around like a big walking target. I find cover, I duck in and out of it and fire a big fat slug into a target hopefully without drawing too much attention to myself. Or I find an assault, sit off his left flank and launch extra hurt onto whatever they're fighting. It's just how that mech, with that build, work. It's hardly "lack of initiative" or "exploiting savior kills" (frankly, I don't even look at match rewards at this point, just click onto the next match) to utilize cover and focus your fire on what your teammates are shooting.

Thats the way a Hunchback has to be played - 2nd line Bruiser

An Assault or a Heavy waiting in cover - full of armor and weapons - climbing over the dead mechs of his "team" mates is a complete other topic.

Hell - I hardly make any kills - because I always do the mistake to do what my mech is supposed to do - charge usually I'm the first in line and usually the first that die
(Thunderbolt, Atlas, Highlander, Stalker)

[SiorAlpin Wolf]

ROFPMSL at the dweebs who are not getting the concept of the op's point of sale here,

1 The op IS NOT complaining about people kill stealing

i think what the op is saying is that players are not full filling the role of particular mech chasis's

Scenario

3 mech's go into battle a jenner, a heavy and an assault, stomp stomp stomp, they encounter an enemy mech, the jenner relays information about the enemy, the heavy and assault move into position......

oh wait thats not right............

the heavy moves into position and the assault takes cover behind the heavy.....

the fighting starts and the jenner and heavy engage the enemy the assault is still taking cover behind the heavy and not engaging as the pilot should be to assist his fellow team mates, infact it is here that the assault should take the lead and initiated the confrontation instead the pilot is watching the target mech until a part of the enemy mech is open then and only then does the assault mech engage.

this is the scenario that alot of players are witnessing, if there was no KDR then this type of action may not be such a sort after course of action, the same thing happens in competitions, they hang back let the pugs soften all the enemy players then they move in and clean up to get the kills, its much easier to kill an already battle weary mech than a fresh one.

I could name and shame the pilots posting on this thread that are totally barking up the wrong tree, but i wont to save you the public humiliation but i think your doing a good job all by your self. It's a valiant attempt to try and change or misdirect the original op's concern about the affect that KDR has on this game and how it affects pilots playing mentality to the point where a team based game turns into players simply searching for that kill by whatever means and backhand tactics needed to get it.

It's so frustrating that some pilots feel the need to troll other pilots who have genuine concerns about the balance of the game and who give CONSTRUCTIVE critique, if you are that frustrated and angry that you feel the need to argue about something for the sake of arguing and making you feel better, these forums are NOT the place to do that. Go to the rest room and release some pressure.

[Skunk Wolf]

Strange, that's how 90% of all Atlas Pilots play.

Press launch
Don't move for 1 minute
Move to a coward ridge, never get in front.
Lock on targets, plink away with LRM
If heavy and medium mechs = 0 walk out and fight.
Die because you are outnumbered or finish them all off because they have no armour.
Pat self on back on how great a pilot you are.

Looks like things are reversing for ya, people are sick of it.

[SiorAlpin Wolf]

ah yes your right, but in your statement you say plink away with lrm meaning you are contributing towards the damage of an enemy mech, the op is saying that mechs dont engage in combat until they think they have a chance of getting the kill or blowing off a component.

why is it so difficult to understand?

Maybe there should be a revision on the role certain mech chassis have, maybe if the medium, light and heavy mechs didnt shoot off infront and wait for the assault mechs to move upto the front line to engage the enemy and break their attacking structure (punch a hole through for the mediums and heavies run through and start attacking from behind) but that is not the case.

What happens is the complete opposite which makes pilots get the wrong idea about team participation, KDR is a contributing factor as you can do minimal engagement during the first half of the fight and clean up to increase your KDR, that's a KDR muffin by example.

its quite simple really if you strip the argument down to its basic fundamentals,
KDR is bad for the game because its not an individual effort so no-one should be rewarded for the killing blow, if there was a death match game mode then maybe a kill reward could be used but then you would get people QQ'ing about kill stealing.

Reward team play and damage done
Penalize players damaging friendly mechs and tk'ing
Give a HEAVY penalty for tk (penalty in place atm is not enough)
Reward time spent capturing bases on conquest mode only

the reward system at the moment does not reward team play, so until that changes we are facing downward spiral.

But we can suggest things as much as we like, from past experience it falls on deaf ears unless your one of the clans that have wormed their way into the dev's pockets, then and only then will your comments and opinions get listened too, sry to say it but its true.

So where does that leave us as a community....................

[Karl Streiger]

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 07:35 AM, said:

Reward team play and damage done
Penalize players damaging friendly mechs and tk'ing
Give a HEAVY penalty for tk (penalty in place atm is not enough)
Reward time spent capturing bases on conquest mode only

I want to add - a Reward that is based on surviving members after the fighting is done.

That should also give a option - for a team - to loose but remain as fighting force intact, rather than to charge headless into the grand decay.

[Sandpit]

removing the kdr will not affect this in my opinion. That isn't the crux of the problem. TKing will not solve it either. The way to make a kdr less significant is to implement a change in core game play. Right now there's no perks or consequences to a win or loss. That means no matter what happens in the match, win or lose, you earn your c-bills and exp and move on to the next match. The losing team loses nothing and the winning team wins nothing. There's no goal to playing OTHER than a kdr at the moment (well and earning money and exp). Until there is a REASON to win there's no reason to worry about whether you win or lose other than to satiate your own ego. Now with all of that said, I've still seen no one post ANY ideas on HOW to fix that. In my opinion, when CW is implemented that will change the entire landscape of the game. You lose, you lose planetary control and production facilities. Even still, just because someone isn't playing how you think they should or is "stealing" your kills doesn't mean you remove an entire stat or TK them. If you can't understand why either of those are just bad blanket statements then I don't know what else to say.

[tvaughanx]

Sandpit, on 23 October 2013 - 07:47 AM, said:

removing the kdr will not affect this in my opinion. That isn't the crux of the problem. TKing will not solve it either. The way to make a kdr less significant is to implement a change in core game play. Right now there's no perks or consequences to a win or loss. That means no matter what happens in the match, win or lose, you earn your c-bills and exp and move on to the next match. The losing team loses nothing and the winning team wins nothing. There's no goal to playing OTHER than a kdr at the moment (well and earning money and exp). Until there is a REASON to win there's no reason to worry about whether you win or lose other than to satiate your own ego. Now with all of that said, I've still seen no one post ANY ideas on HOW to fix that. In my opinion, when CW is implemented that will change the entire landscape of the game. You lose, you lose planetary control and production facilities. Even still, just because someone isn't playing how you think they should or is "stealing" your kills doesn't mean you remove an entire stat or TK them. If you can't understand why either of those are just bad blanket statements then I don't know what else to say.

Stop trying to derail my thread with nonsense.

[SiorAlpin Wolf]

Sandpit where have you got kill stealing from?

i seriously think your interpretation of the op's original post is some what miss-construed, if you could just see past this fascination of kill stealing you might actually see what the op and others in this thread are talking about......

Just as a piece of friendly advice, try reading all of the posts, then re-read your last post then please tell the rest of us exactly how many of the points you have raised have actually been :-

Raised already
Answered already

As for suggesting a fix there have actually been a few suggestions but alas you have to actually read the posts and understand what is mentioned within that body text, im not being detrimental to your intellectual aptitude but i am questioning your interpretation of previous posts on this matter.

[Revan10492]

SiorAlpin Wolf, on 23 October 2013 - 08:20 AM, said:

Sandpit where have you got kill stealing from?

i seriously think your interpretation of the op's original post is some what miss-construed, if you could just see past this fascination of kill stealing you might actually see what the op and others in this thread are talking about......

Just as a piece of friendly advice, try reading all of the posts, then re-read your last post then please tell the rest of us exactly how many of the points you have raised have actually been :-

Raised already
Answered already

As for suggesting a fix there have actually been a few suggestions but alas you have to actually read the posts and understand what is mentioned within that body text, im not being detrimental to your intellectual aptitude but i am questioning your interpretation of previous posts on this matter.

^ ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)

[Sandpit]

it's absolutey amazing. Let me repeat, CW will change the landscape of all of this. The reason you see no care on wins and losses is that there's no reason to care. If you lose, you lose nothing. If you win, you win nothing (with the exception of c-bills and exp) Without any consequences or rewards for wins and losses there's nothing else to actually fight for other than your stats. Once people actually have a reason such as planetary conquest and something that they can lose, it will place more emphasis on winning the match as opposed to just winning extra c-bills and exp for a win as opposed to a loss. When a faction can lose or obtain production facilities and such they will have a reason to actually win beyond what's currently in place. I'm sure there will also be strategic reasons to gain ownership of certain planets (like jump limitations and such where you can't get to planet b until you have planet a). This was all posted in my last post, I'd like to know what's trolling in this.

[Bilbo]

Sandpit, on 23 October 2013 - 08:40 AM, said:

... This was all posted in my last post, I'd like to know what's trolling in this.

You disagree with them.

[Sandpit]

niko you and miss always make me chuckle. BTW, if you've never seen it you need to youtube honey badger skits on action figure therapy. You'll get a kick out of it with your call sign.

[Nastyogre]

Ransack, on 22 October 2013 - 11:07 AM, said:

OP must really hate LRM users on his team. All they do is kill steal. Or strike at the last moment before your kill shot lands.

Except for the 5 salvos of LRM's they shot at that mech or another target. Its not about stealing. The kill bonus is for finishing people off and not just sandblasting the enemy.

[Cyrionthewise]

I agree!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!