87 replies to this topic

[Hauser]

MortVent, on 02 November 2013 - 06:51 AM, said:

Not really, when it's okay for team mates to scream at you for doing what is tactically sound. When it's okay for team mates to cripple your mech because you ask for folks to not just run into the center of mordor but instead flank with enough sent to peek in and keep them thinking ya coming up the ramps and clogging the entrance.

To drop into a pug is to accept joining a everyman for himself mess, drop with a team if you want responsibility from your team mates. Expecting random folks to care about anything but shooting the red team with pew pew and dakka dakka is foolish in a GAME

Win/lose they are going to have fun, maybe more so when you or other hardcore rage about them not doing what you want them to (hint - if ya don't drop in a group, taking lance or company command means you're in charge of three things. Me, myself, and I. You are not in charge of them )

It is a game based on team work. I'd say its only reasonable to expect people to play it like that. So tell me how the ****** behaviour of a few people release you of your responsibility to the team? I'm not even talking about the commander here, I'm not even talking about a grand strategy. I'm talking about the basics of the game. Stick together, focus fire, push together, fall back together, stay in the brawl till its over..

Like you say, its a game, your life is meaningless so there is no point in trying to preserve it beyond a certain point. Yet people are playing like their life matters. More often then not a game isn't lost because the blue team was destroyed, not out right, the game was lost because the blue team got routed, then destroyed.

The best games I have are when four random people come together, make a stand, and grind down two thirds of the red team. All because they don't turns and run, because they didn't huddle behind cover. Those four guys will die because nobody can survive 4 vs 12 but it messes up the red team enough for them to lose the game in the long run.

If you think you don't have a responsibility to anybody on your team you are a selfish ***.

[Boymonkey]

It is not pay to win it is pay to save time....not reading the rest If the OP can't fathom that tiny fact..

[Burke IV]

Hauser made a very good post. People who cant read and agree with the sentiments shouldnt be playing this game. Its really basic stuff, teamplay, awareness, covering fire... People that cant hadle that, just dont drop. You are greifing the people who want to play the game.

[MortVent]

Hauser, on 03 November 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

It is a game based on team work. I'd say its only reasonable to expect people to play it like that. So tell me how the ****** behaviour of a few people release you of your responsibility to the team? I'm not even talking about the commander here, I'm not even talking about a grand strategy. I'm talking about the basics of the game. Stick together, focus fire, push together, fall back together, stay in the brawl till its over..

Like you say, its a game, your life is meaningless so there is no point in trying to preserve it beyond a certain point. Yet people are playing like their life matters. More often then not a game isn't lost because the blue team was destroyed, not out right, the game was lost because the blue team got routed, then destroyed.

The best games I have are when four random people come together, make a stand, and grind down two thirds of the red team. All because they don't turns and run, because they didn't huddle behind cover. Those four guys will die because nobody can survive 4 vs 12 but it messes up the red team enough for them to lose the game in the long run.

If you think you don't have a responsibility to anybody on your team you are a selfish ***.

YOU are playing to win, others are playing to have fun.

They have just as much right to play that way, regardless of what YOU think they should do.

If someone wants to make joke builds and run around in them, that's just fine. If someone wants to be ultra hard core and min/max everything that is fine too.

YOU want a good team, that works together. Then drop as a 12man, but don't expect 11 random people to do what YOU want them to do in a game (aka a leisure activity, not something everyone takes super serious)

Remember it's not about YOU getting what you want in a PUG, YOU get what YOU want in premades.

Deal with the reality, people play for various reasons and in various ways. All are just fine, if you can't handle that, make friends and drop with 11 of them... that way all of YOU get what YOU want in a team.

[MortVent]

Burke IV, on 03 November 2013 - 09:16 AM, said:

Hauser made a very good post. People who cant read and agree with the sentiments shouldnt be playing this game. Its really basic stuff, teamplay, awareness, covering fire... People that cant hadle that, just dont drop. You are greifing the people who want to play the game.

Wrong, it's not all about playing perfectly. A game is designed to be fun, regardless of how it's played by the participants.

YOU want hardcore teamwork, drop as a team. Don't rage when 11 random people don't care, and just want to have fun running around in mechs shooting things, capping from the start, or otherwise playing in ways YOU don't like.

As long as they don't break the CoC, it's all good. Even if you rage about it, because you don't like it.

[Burke IV]

I have dropped once in a 4 man group. every other game has been pug. I dont want anything but i am going to try and tell you why you are wrong.

Because you are not actually mixing with the people you are playing with you are taking an attitude that is unacceptable. Imagine it was a team sport (you choose) and not an online game. Would you really be going on like this? It is your inexperience in team play online gaming that is making you say this stuff, in times gone by people would have tryed to educate you to a point and if you couldnt learn you would have simply been excluded.

Why dont you just try to join in? Its really good fun with a sensible commader. The quality of this game in general would go up massively if PGI was to implement more commander tools to promote team work.

Hauser, on 03 November 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

It is a game based on team work. I'd say its only reasonable to expect people to play it like that......
.....If you think you don't have a responsibility to anybody on your team you are a selfish ***.

[Aluminumfoiled]

Hauser, on 03 November 2013 - 03:19 AM, said:

....
The best games I have are when four random people come together, make a stand, and grind down two thirds of the red team. All because they don't turns and run, because they didn't huddle behind cover. Those four guys will die because nobody can survive 4 vs 12 but it messes up the red team enough for them to lose the game in the long run.

If you think you don't have a responsibility to anybody on your team you are a selfish ***.
.....

^^ This. So much this. ^^ When this happens = is much full of win. A prime example I remember well was on Caustic-pug lance side of the crater, roughly diamond formation, calm, patient and focused. We killed a good 8/12. And not a word in txt.

Instantly felt like we had each others back. Match was full of unspoken cues. I get games like this fairly often. I don't play the same game at all that others do by what some posts are saying.

We happened to get accusations of premade on this one if iirc, & were refuted with a . If you want to win at all you have a duty to team mates. As we all know KDR != W/L . What is your goal I guess.

edit: sp
The premade accusation was silly and at the same time highlighted preconcieved prejudice or "lack of knowledge". They rolled one lance in about 2 min. And the original accuser was a low score back seat driver. Many attitude problems were shown in this match. Solo-premade, the matches are big enough for us all.

Edited by MicroVent, 03 November 2013 - 01:22 PM.

[MortVent]

Burke IV, on 03 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

I have dropped once in a 4 man group. every other game has been pug. I dont want anything but i am going to try and tell you why you are wrong.

Because you are not actually mixing with the people you are playing with you are taking an attitude that is unacceptable. Imagine it was a team sport (you choose) and not an online game. Would you really be going on like this? It is your inexperience in team play online gaming that is making you say this stuff, in times gone by people would have tryed to educate you to a point and if you couldnt learn you would have simply been excluded.

Why dont you just try to join in? Its really good fun with a sensible commader. The quality of this game in general would go up massively if PGI was to implement more commander tools to promote team work.

I go after objectives, and work with the team. I just don't expect a pug team to have the same focus as me.

To demand otherwise is to be a total jerk, as they are playing the game and I didn't form a premade.

So no premade means accepting the rest of the team can simply run around in circles, and I'll have to adjust what I do to the situation. Because I have no right to tell them what to do, I did't form a premade with me as commander, so there is no chain of command or anything.

In the end, stop being a jerk and accept people are not going to play the game the same way. It's not team sports, where you actually pick your team mates (aka premades) it's a bunch of kids playing with toys in a sandbox.

[Hauser]

MicroVent, on 03 November 2013 - 01:07 PM, said:

^^ This. So much this. ^^ When this happens = is much full of win. A prime example I remember well was on Caustic-pug lance side of the crater, roughly diamond formation, calm, patient and focused. We killed a good 8/12. And not a word in txt.

Instantly felt like we had each others back. Match was full of unspoken cues. I get games like this fairly often. I don't play the same game at all that others do by what some posts are saying.

We happened to get accusations of premade on this one if iirc, & were refuted with a . If you want to win at all you have a duty to team mates. As we all know KDR != W/L . What is your goal I guess.

Yeah it's awesome when you can read peoples intentions. It really depends on the time of day though. American evening the games tend to be much better.

Burke IV, on 03 November 2013 - 12:49 PM, said:

Because you are not actually mixing with the people you are playing with you are taking an attitude that is unacceptable. Imagine it was a team sport (you choose) and not an online game. Would you really be going on like this? It is your inexperience in team play online gaming that is making you say this stuff, in times gone by people would have tryed to educate you to a point and if you couldnt learn you would have simply been excluded.

Why dont you just try to join in? Its really good fun with a sensible commader. The quality of this game in general would go up massively if PGI was to implement more commander tools to promote team work.

Exactly. Just because you're playing with 11 anonymous people from the internet doesn't mean you shouldn't play as a team.

MortVent, on 03 November 2013 - 11:57 AM, said:

YOU are playing to win, others are playing to have fun.

They have just as much right to play that way, regardless of what YOU think they should do.

If someone wants to make joke builds and run around in them, that's just fine. If someone wants to be ultra hard core and min/max everything that is fine too.

YOU want a good team, that works together. Then drop as a 12man, but don't expect 11 random people to do what YOU want them to do in a game (aka a leisure activity, not something everyone takes super serious)

Remember it's not about YOU getting what you want in a PUG, YOU get what YOU want in premades.

Deal with the reality, people play for various reasons and in various ways. All are just fine, if you can't handle that, make friends and drop with 11 of them... that way all of YOU get what YOU want in a team.

I'm not playing to win. I'm playing to have fun. If I was playing to win I'd be dropping with a lance or company.

If I was going by your reasoning what would stop someone from dropping an artillery strike on their own drop zone? Say he likes to play as a team killer. Say he finds it much more convenient, he doesn't have to find people to shoot and the rage can be amusing. You can't tell him he can't play that way.

Well obviously this isn't the right way to play and I assume you'll agree. That already suggests that the game has certain innate rules that everybody is expected to play along with.

The game is a team game and not just in the sense that you there are 11 other guys on your side that won't shoot you. It's a team game in the sense that you are very much reliant on your team mates. To do anything you need each other for mutual support. As a result this the game is much more fun when your team mates play it like that. This will remain the case until we get FFA Solaris.

As I said before, I'm not talking about following a commander, I'm not talking about following a grand strategy. I'm talking about the very basics of the game. So why exactly is it unreasonable to expect people to cooperate in a game of which the very basis is cooperation? Answer me that.

[CrashieJ]

D04S02B04, on 24 October 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

dribble

how long have you been playing? seriously.

this game doesn't have an adequate tutorial, or even a small campaign to help players adapt and get "sucked in"

your post AND you need to to shut up, you're getting snot all over my mech

[Willard Phule]

Lots of good points in here...whether I agree or not, most of them make sense.

I have a thought, though, and I'd be interested to see if anyone else has been noticing the same things I have.

I really think a lot of the frustration people feel about playing with 'noobs' or 'newbs' or 'people that just never seem to learn and become better' pretty much centers around the MatchMaker.

I read the post about how the MM works, but even if it worked that way at one point, it's not doing it anymore.

Here's an example. Let's say that I reached "MASTERY" level in xp on Jagermechs. That means, at minimum, I've been playing the game long enough to grind up 14,250xp to unlock the "BASIC" tree (that's a total of 42,750xp for all three).....then 21,500xp to ulock the "ELITE" tree (total of 64,500 for all three)...and then 21,500xp to unlock "MASTER" (let's just say I only did master for one variant). That's a total of 128,750xp to have MASTERY in a single mech chassis.

If...IF....you average 2000xp per match, that means you have to play 64.375 matches to get there.

What's the point of all this? I find it difficult to believe that ANYONE can play 64.375 matches and not learn anything at all. For crying out loud, he's got MASTERY lit up on the mech.

So....why is it that the Matchmaker puts people with MASTERY unlocked in their mech into the same games as people that just started the game?

If the Matchmaker were to take overall XP (in some fashion or other) into consideration (as well as weight class, weapon loadout and lots of other frustrating things that aren't relevant here), you'd start to see matches that reflect skill progression.

You just bought a Hunchback. No XP in it whatsoever. You join a game...you get put into a match where everyone is still working on unlocking the "BASIC" tree.

You finally unlock the "BASIC" tree and start working on "ELITE." The matchmaker puts you in a game where everyone is pretty much in the same boat...

Anyway, I'm done ranting. It makes sense to me, but I'm betting I'm going to get trolled pretty bad.

[DrSlamastika]

D04S02B04, on 24 October 2013 - 01:54 PM, said:

MWO is Pay To Win
First of all, MWO is pay to win. There are many people out there who will contest this notion with antiquated arguments. I'll however, present very different reasons why MWO is pay to win. Assuming you're a good player, who is willing to learn, observe and experiment, you're often a mature player as well. This means we have other things to deal with in life like: cooking, doing the laundry, having a job or career, further studies etc. This leaves you with barely 2 hours a weekday, maybe 16 hours per gaming stretch on weekend (8 hrs a day) and that's assuming you don't have a life outside of MWO (read -> MWO is my 2nd job).

A Mech is non-competitive without Double Heat Sinks and sometimes an XL engine. Mechs can cost anywhere between 2 million - 10 million cbills and after fitting out with DHS and some weapons, they would run at 4 million - 12 million cbills + additional costs as you continually tweak and customise (EndoSteel + Artemis). Mechlab is theoretical performance, you need actual ingame evidence.

If you hit 150k cbills per match like a pro, an average match takes 10-15mins (incl. of search time, ready up time, play time, load out time), that means you can only earn 600k - 900k cbills per hour. With your limited time of 26 hrs per week (assuming you're playing MWO exclusively), you can grind up 15.6 million - 23.4 million cbills, enough to buy and customise 2-3 mech variants, earn your elite bonuses and call it a day. That's the best case scenario.

Sry man, but MWO is definitelly not PAY TO WIN ! ! !
Your examples are pretty stupid. That all are just shortcuts, but nothing really over powered for your money. . . .

I think you never played real P2W game, bro, be happy for that

Edited by DrSlamastika, 01 December 2013 - 08:26 AM.

[WildeKarde]

You can't really have P2W and L2P at the same time. If it's P2W the I don't need to L2P.

No matter how much money I could throw at this if I come up against a better player then it's a quick game for me. There is no one mech or build that you can say will always give a win.

Also no matter how much you learn you can still be caught out by someone.

This is a game, it shouldn't be work to play it. Win or lose you should be able to take some enjoyment from it.

[Grendel408]

OP: D04S02B04, I still don't see how you justify that MWO is a Pay2Win game as you've stated... I have plenty of players in my unit that do perfectly well without dropping a dime into this game, while others drop loads into it and have less skill. All in all, your post for the thread is accurate to a degree. I've got a player in my team who hasn't dropped a dime past his founder's package into the game, and has over 100m Cbills that he has earned from gaming. How did he do this with good stats, and a good assortment of Mechs? Grinding... playing with teammates helps greatly... a lot of that was earned from before the 12man drops were created and we had plenty of 8man drops done over the duration. This guy hasn't even turned on his premium time from his founder's package!?!?! LOL fml... me, I burned through it, the MCs, and then some... I think it's more a Play2Win game because the more you play, the more you grind versus the average or even semi-casual player, the better off you are... much like Battlefield3 (or previous iterations)... that's not Pay2Win... it's grinding to success.

Edited by Grendel408, 02 December 2013 - 05:46 PM.

[Mycrus]

I've seen the op play and he does not impress me.

He tried 12-man once, got told off for "panic" comms and then called it a day and quit..

I haven't seen him play 12s ever since.

He is in my timezone and 12s are non-existent if not for units and ts3 randoms organizing it.

I have challenged him to post his base stats.

Seriously, play more 12s before posting drivel...

Re: P2W - I have a guild member that is strictly F2P closed beta invite..

He masters mechs, gets tired of them and sells them off all within 4 mech bays..

So erm no... This game aint P2W or even grindy.. You play and get your skillz up in real time and get cbills as a byproduct to buy moar ****...

[RamsoPanzer]

This is taking too long, conclusions , please.

[Grendel408]

Stop reading the forums and start playing the game more?

[DeathofSelf]

ElementalFury, on 25 October 2013 - 12:30 PM, said:

So how much do I have to pay to win against everyhting?!

I would like to know this as well, cause I'm not paying more than $5 a match to win... Well ok maybe I would, I mean this mech **** is serious business right? Then I could be all "Hey n00bs look how 1337 I am!!!111!"

[Levon K]

This thread didn't die yet?

[Grendel408]

I love when people cry that this is a Pay2Win game LOL! Makes me laugh like a crazy person in the nutz-house... That's like claiming games like War Thunder is Pay2Win... why should this thread die when we can remind people how much someone can be wrong when they try and voice their opinion (however wrong it might be, it's personal) about a game that is awesome... buggy, but awesome