43 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Deathsani, on 29 October 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

By fair play I mean, just because there is the build of the month, you don't take it because it is too simple. You purposefully don't use broken equipment for the sake of your own score.

Also, that stock build mode with no ghost heat sounds like a blast.

Wll I have run the same D-DC for about 9-10 months. Switched from a ERPPC to 2 Large when SRMs got nerfed to the ground. Now I am running 2 PPC an AC20.

[Kaijin]

MustrumRidcully, on 29 October 2013 - 11:40 PM, said:

a decent lobby system might help. Maybe a group-finder function that allows you to specificy that you want to run a casual game or a competitive game.

I want a competitive game with near-stock mechs (near stock because stock never carries enough ammo for anything but TT). MPBT with better graphics, in other words.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2013 - 03:31 AM, said:

Wll I have run the same D-DC for about 9-10 months. Switched from a ERPPC to 2 Large when SRMs got nerfed to the ground. Now I am running 2 PPC an AC20.

I run 2 erll and the ac-20. Still gives a ranger attack and can work close in against lights. That 90mtr ppc thang killed it for me.
Been goofing with my rs on weird builds and run 2lpl 2erll and an ac10. Still testing it out because it takes a lot of matches to do a fair comparison.
I am sure someone will be along to tell me im doing it wrong but I am having fun. Besides the Atlas isnt really used in competion anymore as near as I can tell so its just a fun build toy.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 October 2013 - 04:04 AM, said:

I run 2 erll and the ac-20. Still gives a ranger attack and can work close in against lights. That 90mtr ppc thang killed it for me.
Been goofing with my rs on weird builds and run 2lpl 2erll and an ac10. Still testing it out because it takes a lot of matches to do a fair comparison.
I am sure someone will be along to tell me im doing it wrong but I am having fun. Besides the Atlas isnt really used in competion anymore as near as I can tell so its just a fun build toy.

The only way you are doing it wrong is if you have bad K/D record in it. And that only holds true if you are not having fun. I am absolutely terribad in my Jenner (Sara), but I find myself whooping it up even though I have a 1K/12D in it. If you do good in a build, don't listen to the "pros", You got to play for your happiness not theirs.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 October 2013 - 04:10 AM.

[Mudhutwarrior]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2013 - 04:10 AM, said:

The only way you are doing it wrong is if you have bad K/D record in it. And that only holds true if you are not having fun. I am absolutely terribad in my Jenner (Sara), but I find myself whooping it up even though I have a 1K/12D in it. If you do good in a build, don't listen to the "pros", You got to play for your happiness not theirs.

Starting to like you Joe. Better go see a therapist.

[Joseph Mallan]

Mudhutwarrior, on 30 October 2013 - 04:14 AM, said:

Starting to like you Joe. Better go see a therapist.

So far we disagree on one issue. I don't see a need for Therapy cause of that.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Deathsani, on 29 October 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

I know what fun is for me, I know why this game appeals to me intellectually. I like variety. I like finding a series of solutions to each situation and there is something that destroys this fun. Interestingly enough this problem is rather widespread and is in every multiplayer game that ever existed.

It is the trollish min/maxer, the forum copycats who will copy the best build from said troller, and the ever pleasant "snipers" that pollute fps of all types. I am not a competitive person. Numbers do not thrill me, filling bars will never cause great elation and having the best of anything has never been a goal of mine. There are people that adore this concept and I want them to be happy...but far, far away from me.

Is there a logical way to accommodate us both? Is there a way to let people break the game to their hearts content while simultaneously giving me rich, strategic game play within the boundaries of common courtesy and fair play?

May I suggest you read
Playing to win part 1

Edited by Funkadelic Mayhem, 30 October 2013 - 04:24 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Q4T:

Quote

The scrub would take great issue with this statement for he usually believes that he is playing to win, but he is bound up by an intricate construct of fictitious rules that prevent him from ever truly competing. These made-up rules vary from game to game, of course, but their character remains constant. In Street Fighter, for example, the scrub labels a wide variety of tactics and situations "cheap." So-called "cheapness" is truly the mantra of the scrub. Performing a throw on someone often called cheap. A throw is a special kind of move that grabs an opponent and damages him, even when the opponent is defending against all other kinds of attacks. The entire purpose of the throw is to be able to damage an opponent who sits and blocks and doesn't attack. As far as the game is concerned, throwing is an integral part of the design--it's meant to be there--yet the scrub has constructed his own set of principles in his mind that state he should be totally impervious to all attacks while blocking. The scrub thinks of blocking as a kind of magic shield which will protect him indefinitely. Why? Exploring the reasoning is futile since the notion is ridiculous from the start.

Thanks for this Funk. I apparently am not a Scrub!

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 30 October 2013 - 04:39 AM.

[Thorqemada]

KinLuu, on 30 October 2013 - 01:35 AM, said:

It is not that simple.

Only if you want it complicated

[mike29tw]

I am seeing some "people killed by me are pesky pug noobz and people killed me are dirty try-hard min/maxer." mentality here.

For me the most fun I have with MWO is somewhere near the open beta launch, when I don't fully understand the mechanic and I tried out every build to experiment with different play-style, and eventually found out a mech and a build that fit me perfectly. That's why I love games with deep complexity, those kind of games have the most "fun-hour" for me. After I figure out what's what and how to build an effective war machine, the fun factor gradually died down. What's only left is the satisfaction of destroying your opponent, and even that doesn't last long before it all gets bored.

Of course with each new mech purchased, I can have another period of "fun time", AKA finding what works best for this particular mech and my playstyle, but that doesn't last long because weapon balance has gone stale for quite some time. This is why, IMO, we need to constantly attempt to balance the game to ensure variety and keep players engaged for as long as possible.

[Wolfways]

Deathsani, on 29 October 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

...the ever pleasant "snipers" that pollute fps of all types.

Why do you play a ranged combat game and expect others not to use range to their advantage? I see this "sniper hate" in so many fps games and find it ridiculous.
Would you play a melee game and complain because someone uses a sword while you prefer a knife?

[Roland]

Deathsani, on 29 October 2013 - 02:44 PM, said:

I know what fun is for me, I know why this game appeals to me intellectually. I like variety. I like finding a series of solutions to each situation and there is something that destroys this fun. Interestingly enough this problem is rather widespread and is in every multiplayer game that ever existed.

What you describe as "the trollish min/maxer" is merely the person who is doing exactly what you suggest that you like to do... only they are doing it better than you.

You suggest that you like finding a series of solutions... solutions to what? Presumably, when building mechs, the "problem" that is being solved is how to make an optimum configuration.

If you aren't building mechs with some goal, then you aren't actually solving any problems. You're basically just playing legos like a young child.

It's the task of optimizing a configuration for a mech which entails "solving a problem". That's the point at which it stops being a random combination of mech parts, and starts to become an engineering problem.

[Ecto Cooler]

Deathsani, on 29 October 2013 - 03:55 PM, said:

By fair play I mean, just because there is the build of the month, you don't take it because it is too simple. You purposefully don't use broken equipment for the sake of your own score.

Also, that stock build mode with no ghost heat sounds like a blast.

What's broken if it's a game mechanic that everyone can use? Sorry, but I hate this type of mentality.

You have the same tools at your disposal as everyone else, if you choose not to use all of them because it isn't "sporting" well... you don't get to complain about fair play in the same breath.

[KinLuu]

Thorqemada, on 30 October 2013 - 05:12 AM, said:

Only if you want it complicated

Even games with the best gameplay are no fun, if there is no reward and thus no satisfaction.

This is especially true in progress based games, like MWO.

[Mawai]

I am not sure what you are getting at.

There are several categories of players and it seems to me you have mixed up player types and play styles.

1) Folks who take the FOTM and utilize weapons that are perceived as overpowered or broken in order to obtain max statistics.
2) Folks who try to widely distribute damage to maximize assists or take other actions perhaps not in the best interest of the team in order to maximize either cbill or xp income from a match.
3) Folks who like to play a team game "solo" ... usually killed either first or last but unless the team is really good they usually die one way or another.

4) Folks who work together with team mates and focus fire on opponents - whether they take the FOTM or not


However, the following are different from play styles.

1) Brawler
2) Sniper
3) Direct support - brawling but not front line
4) Indirect support - LRMs or other indirect fire weapons
5) Front-line assault
6) Scout
7) Spotter

You complained about both min/maxers and snipers. Min/maxers want an effective build (which I think everyone prefers - though some folks are a bit overboard on it) while sniper is an entirely valid playstyle that fits with the "strategic" and "tactical" objectives of MWO in terms of eliminating the opponents and winning the game. You may not like to play a sniper role yourself but there is nothing wrong with others doing so and any "tactical" solution you want to come up with needs to factor in the possibility of "sniper" or just long range weaponry on the other team.

So ... are you trying to say you want a game in which everyone has to take limited fits and must move to close range to engage? You might enjoy that but I am sure that there are others who like the customization options and would not enjoy being forced to play the way you would like to play.

[Lefty Lucy]

KinLuu, on 30 October 2013 - 07:20 AM, said:

Even games with the best gameplay are no fun, if there is no reward and thus no satisfaction.

This is especially true in progress based games, like MWO.

In a lot of really, really fun games winning itself is reward enough.

[FupDup]

What is love?

[Roland]

Baby don't hurt me.

[Joseph Mallan]

FupDup, on 30 October 2013 - 08:08 AM, said:

What is love?

Staying with that special someone through good times and bad, and still seeing that amazing person that stole your breath away 25 years ago.

That is what love is to me.

[FupDup]

Joseph Mallan, on 30 October 2013 - 08:24 AM, said:

Staying with that special someone through good times and bad, and still seeing that amazing person that stole your breath away 25 years ago.

That is what love is to me.

I was referencing an internet meme, and making a play on words of the thread's title.