185 replies to this topic

[Joseph Mallan]

Competitive: Does not mean what many think it does.

Balanced does not seem to fit with Competitive.

I guess I am one of the most competitive players here!

[Joseph Mallan]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 12:19 PM, said:

There are so many assaults because Assaults are the best mechs in the game. Make Medium and Light mechs as good as Assaults, and there won't be so many Assaults.

And how do we do that? Speed is the advantage of the lighter classes, but speed does not always work against Armor almost as Heavy as the Lightest Mech or against Mechs with up to 51 tons of weight for weapons an equipment.

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 November 2013 - 06:24 AM.

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2013 - 06:23 AM, said:

And how do we do that? Speed is the advantage of the lighter classes, but speed does not always work against Armor almost as Heavy as the Lightest Mech or against Mechs with up to 51 tons of weight for weapons an equipment.

I'll name it before the solution / explanation is issued. "Beige Box Balancing"

Edited by DaZur, 06 November 2013 - 06:40 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 06 November 2013 - 06:32 AM, said:

I'll name it before the solution / explanation is issued. "Beige Box Balancing"

Oh so the color scheme in my house! *YAWN*

[Vodrin Thales]

Balancing mediums and lights versus assaults is going to demand some real creativity on the part of the devs. The game MWO is based on does not have balance between lights, mediums, and assaults.

[Damocles69]

One way they could go about balancing lights and mediums is to make objective play more vital to wining the game. Let's face it. Smaller, lighter armed and armored mech will always be at a mathatical disadvantage in an arena style death match game. Let's not kid ourselves, this is the style of the game now and for the foreseeable future (I'm not counting the CW vaporware that may or may not make it out). They need to be able to supplement their lack of firepower with utility. Capable base turrets, ammo dumps, what have you would have a significant impact on the outcome of the match. This would also split up the packs of assaults in order to guard more territory making them more open to attacks by light and medium wolf packs.

More game modes or a complete redsign of the 2 current game modes are needed for light and medium mechs to come into their own. Unffortunatly PGI is bad at making games so i see very little of this happening

[DaZur]

Damocles69, on 06 November 2013 - 08:35 AM, said:

More game modes or a complete redsign of the 2 current game modes are needed for light and medium mechs to come into their own. Unffortunatly PGI is bad at making games so i see very little of this happening

In fairness... That's not balancing Mediums. That's giving them an end-game goal above / beyond trying to go toe-to-toe with fatties.

Which quite honestly is the only real way to balance the battlefield... not these awkward efforts to make dissimilar things similar.

In short... "Every mech should have a job and every job the correct mech to perform it"...

[YueFei]

DaZur, on 06 November 2013 - 08:49 AM, said:

In fairness... That's not balancing Mediums. That's giving them an end-game goal above / beyond trying to go toe-to-toe with fatties.

Which quite honestly is the only real way to balance the battlefield... not these awkward efforts to make dissimilar things similar.

In short... "Every mech should have a job and every job the correct mech to perform it"...

This is what I've been trying to say, but you put it perfectly there.

No tonnage limits, no weight class affirmative action, no battle value. No buffs/nerfs for anybody. Just... a bigger variety of maps and mission objectives.

[Joseph Mallan]

You know, there is a reason why these guys,

don't compete with these guys

Wonder what that could be???

How do you make that kind of difference balanced?

Edited by Joseph Mallan, 06 November 2013 - 09:33 AM.

[rdmgraziel]

The majority of the playerbase wants damage and kills so they feel good after winning a match (making them feel they contributed and/or did well).

Mediums are the only class WITHOUT a singular dedicated role assigned to them. What role do you apply to a class that's built around being generalists? They can act as LRM support, Brawlers, Strikers, Scouts, fast-cappers, Anti-Lights, snipers, or even just extra direct-fire support. Medium Mechs are only as specialized as the builds people use with them. Heavies are only better for fire support, but most do it by taking a durability hit via an XL, and they're STILL not as fast as most Mediums.

[Asakara]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

You know, there is a reason why these guys,

don't compete with these guys

Wonder what that could be???

Some veteran light pilots are more like this guy in my opinion:

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2013 - 09:29 AM, said:

You know, there is a reason why these guys,

don't compete with these guys

Wonder what that could be???

But they could be.... If they were allowed to hurl rocks at the opponent from a distance.

That's my other gripe with the current PGI meta that's parallel to my above premise...

There's hardly anything BUT trying to toe it out with Assaults and Heavies for Mediums to do at present time. That said, what's left?.... Yeah, "trying" to be competitive with the fatties.

At the moment most Mediums best survival odds is to "throw rocks" and try not to wade in...

Sadly too few Medium pilot know and or appreciate this for the reality it is...

Edited by DaZur, 06 November 2013 - 09:39 AM.

[Joseph Mallan]

Asakara, on 06 November 2013 - 09:34 AM, said:

Some veteran light pilots are more like this guy in my opinion:

A basketball player v a Martial Arts Master... not the same comparison.

DaZur, on 06 November 2013 - 09:38 AM, said:

But they could be.... If they were allowed to hurl rocks at the opponent from a distance.

That's my other gripe with the current PGI meta that's parallel to my above premise...

There's hardly anything BUT trying to toe it out with Assaults and Heavies for Mediums to do at present time. That said, what's left?.... Yeah, "trying" to be competitive with the fatties.

At the moment most Mediums best survival odds is to "throw rocks" and try not to wade in...

Sadly too few Medium pilot know and or appreciate this for the reality it is...

AKA Fire Support that other often whined about battlefield norm!

[Riptor]

Remember when they said that this time it wouldnt be an arms race?

That each weight class would be valuable on the battlefield and have its specific role to play?

Aaaah.. those where the times... the times of naivety...

[Stingray Productions]

more assaults means more firepower which means more destruction.

[Joseph Mallan]

Riptor, on 06 November 2013 - 09:48 AM, said:

Remember when they said that this time it wouldnt be an arms race?

That each weight class would be valuable on the battlefield and have its specific role to play?

Aaaah.. those where the times... the times of naivety...

Yeah leave it to a civilian to totally not get warfare.

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

AKA Fire Support that other often whined about battlefield norm!

Which is just blatant idiocy and narrow presumption... Fire Support is as integral to battlefield tactics as any other, if not more so.

But that just brings my argument full circle in regards to what e-sport competitive players and war/battle tacticians want out of MW:O.

[Joseph Mallan]

DaZur, on 06 November 2013 - 10:05 AM, said:

Which is just blatant idiocy and narrow presumption... Fire Support is as integral to battlefield tactics as any other, if not more so.

But that just brings my argument full circle in regards to what e-sport competitive players and war/battle tacticians want out of MW:O.

Ooh Rah!

[Asakara]

Joseph Mallan, on 06 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

A basketball player v a Martial Arts Master... not the same comparison.

...

In real life yes. But that was not Kareem's role in the movie scene depicted, where they were both martial artists.

[Joseph Mallan]

Asakara, on 06 November 2013 - 10:15 AM, said:

In real life yes. But that was not Kareem's role in the movie scene depicted, where they were both martial artists.

He was also depicted as the Lesser master to Bruce. SO a Near Noob Assault v PEEF.