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Technical Update - November - Feedback


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#1 Kyle Polulak

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:00 PM

Tell us what you think of the November Technical Update from the Dev Team.

Spoiler


#2 FuzzyLog1c

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 02:36 PM

If you want to improve wait time for high ELO players, try the following:

- Increase SHS and DHS dissipation and severely reduce the max heat cap.
- Remove the Gauss charge mechanic.
- Loosen up the hill speed mechanic.
- Remove "ghost" heat.
- Implement voice chat.

That's literally all that's standing between you and hundreds of thousands of dollars of immediate funding. By my estimation, over the past two months, forum traffic has dropped to somewhere between 1/6th and 1/8th what it was since you guys thumbed your nose at the people that made this game possible. If you stay the course, I predict that the average forum population will drop to below 1000 participants by the end of the year, and from there, all that's left is the inevitable quick slide and hard landing. You can already see the same old topics building steam with the second generation members... MWO won't survive the second communication apocalypse.

Also, if you're having problems with performance, start supporting SLI and Crossfire. Based on a survey of about 30 former MWO players, two-thirds of them have either SLI or Crossfire rigs. MWO works on both platforms using simple control panel overrides. The only downsides are minor graphical artifacts (occasional flickering, for instance). It shouldn't be that hard to finish the job.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 01 November 2013 - 02:38 PM.


#3 Jman5

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:09 PM

I would like to see more discussion on the upcoming weight limits. Specifically what your min/max numbers will be. In the ATD 45, Paul used this chart strictly for demonstrative purposes. Have you guys nailed down anything yet?

#4 Agent 0 Fortune

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 03:51 PM

View PostFuzzyLog1c, on 01 November 2013 - 02:36 PM, said:

If you want to improve wait time for high ELO players, try the following:

- Increase SHS and DHS dissipation and severely reduce the max heat cap.
- Remove the Gauss charge mechanic.
- Loosen up the hill speed mechanic.
- Remove "ghost" heat.
- Implement voice chat.

That's literally all that's standing between you and hundreds of thousands of dollars of immediate funding. By my estimation


You almost forgot to mention that those changes also: cure cancer, burn fat, increase libido, build muscle, and improve memory. Oh wait, they wont do any of those things or any of the things you suggested either.

As for Matthew's comments: UI 2.0, Matchmaking, and Hit detection are all high on my priority list, I'm to hear you are working diligently on them. Although I am not sure what you can do about "high elo players not finding matches", if there isn't a large enough pool of high elo players, I don't know what you do but allow smaller team sizes or longer wait queues. Or as you mentioned, put them in general population (if they are solo), but if you do there really should be a hard limit on the lower end of the Elo they can be matched with/against.

#5 FuzzyLog1c

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:28 PM

View PostAgent 0 Fortune, on 01 November 2013 - 03:51 PM, said:

You almost forgot to mention that those changes also: cure cancer, burn fat, increase libido, build muscle, and improve memory. Oh wait, they wont do any of those things or any of the things you suggested either.


I know. But someone occasionally needs to remind senior management (and I mean IGP, not PGI) that there's still a big, eager, wealthy fanbase out there. I haven't played MWO since the "this game isn't for you, Mechwarrior fans" post on principal alone. Judging by the lack of recognizable names on the Teamspeak servers (most of whom chipped in $200+), I'm one of many.

Like many others, I've been quietly observing the slow decay of the game, hoping that a change in direction will come. Or that the whole thing will fireball in an epic way, permitting a hungrier and sharper group of developers to take their shot at gaming glory.

Edited by FuzzyLog1c, 01 November 2013 - 05:39 PM.


#6 Deathlike

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 05:38 PM

That post was generally better than the overall quality of the "Creative Director" update and therefore I approve of it.

I'd rather see this more than the Creative Director update, because it shows a more clearer direction than the wait for the next hero mech and new map that we know we're going to get anyways.

#7 TexAce

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:26 PM

View PostDeathlike, on 01 November 2013 - 05:38 PM, said:

That post was generally better than the overall quality of the "Creative Director" update and therefore I approve of it.

I'd rather see this more than the Creative Director update, because it shows a more clearer direction than the wait for the next hero mech and new map that we know we're going to get anyways.


If you ask me the 2nd staff (Thomas and Matthew for example) could take over all the communication from the 1st row staff (Paul, Bryan, Russ)...

They do a much better job at explaining problems and solutions to them.

Listening to Bryan, Russ or Paul is like listening to politicians.

Edited by TexAss, 01 November 2013 - 06:28 PM.


#8 Philadelphia Collins

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 06:48 PM

Fist of all thank you for this update it is appreciated. Would also like to say well done on the professional delivery seems like I enjoy reading every post Mr. Craig makes they are informative and straightforward.

I hate to say it but the overall the things discussed in the technical update seem like deja vu to me. First hints of UI2.0 was a long time ago and the wait is grating. It is what it is I guess.

Matchmaking has been pretty off since forever. Adding a cap to the number of preformed team members prevented more tactical and coordinated play but also reduced the number of outright 8-0 stomps (well sorta people just sync dropped and it happens all the time anyway). ELO kinda sorta matches people by skill except not really because as far as I can tell it is based on wins not individual performance. So if me and two other experienced players team up with and drop with a newer less experienced player and win a lot his ELO score gets jacked up and his solo pug play or any play with less experienced teamates becomes horrifying and depressing. Also all the skill matching seems to make it too difficult to keep tonnage matching or even weight class matching in good effect.

Hit detection I feel another round of host state rewind coming on. Guess we will see.

Stability for me is better than ever. Honestly in the last year this is the greatest improvement to the game. I rarely crash and neither do most of the people I play with.

#9 MischiefSC

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 09:14 PM

All good news.

SRMs... for what it's worth I would swear that when I run singles or fire them in singles I get better total hit percentage/more damage done. Are the missiles foiling each other? Trying to hit the same location at the same time and getting dropped as potential duplicates or errors? I just know that when I'm puking up a few dozen SRMs at someone they hit poorly. I chain them up and it seems like explosions drumroll.

Rest of it sounds great. Eager to see the hitbox results - there seem to be a lot of mechs who, due to these sorts of issues, lose their competitive edge. It'd be nice to have everyone on more even footing that way.

UI 2.0 - wants it. Got the Overlord package and just scrolling mechs is a hassle. A more flexible and nimble interface would be great.

Tonnage limits and any sort of control over matchmaking would be awesome. Don't want to feel like I'm playing with one hand behind my back when I'm pugging and not bringing JJs, PPCs and paired ballistics.

#10 DEN_Ninja

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Posted 01 November 2013 - 11:59 PM

View PostFuzzyLog1c, on 01 November 2013 - 05:28 PM, said:


I know. But someone occasionally needs to remind senior management (and I mean IGP, not PGI) that there's still a big, eager, wealthy fanbase out there. I haven't played MWO since the "this game isn't for you, Mechwarrior fans" post on principal alone. Judging by the lack of recognizable names on the Teamspeak servers (most of whom chipped in $200+), I'm one of many.

Like many others, I've been quietly observing the slow decay of the game, hoping that a change in direction will come. Or that the whole thing will fireball in an epic way, permitting a hungrier and sharper group of developers to take their shot at gaming glory.


I will give you one god damned example of why you 'Let MWO die' folks need to [Redacted]. Command and Conquer just flopped. They straight up canceled the alpha despite months of testing and development because of negative feedback NOT UNLIKE THIS. Guess what, Victory games is now dissolved and those good people trying to make a C&C are jobless and either will filter into other EA studios or be jobless. They WANTED to pick up the C&C IP and make a C&C game but negative feedback from ardent fans that disliked the direction of the game killed it.

Who in the world would pick up and fund development for an IP that just flopped? You think that it is just so easy for the license to fall into the hands of passionate developers? Tell me one studio RIGHT NOW that would pick up Mechwarrior other than PGI.
Give me a name of a publisher that wants to fund or contract someone for a toxic fanbase like this?

C&C wasn't even a bad game. It had limited content because it was in damn alpha, It had a grind because the economy was not fleshed out. The gameplay was short and the same style as Generals which was more sleek and modern than RA or Tiberium. It was not a stale game and had much room for improvement but died earlier purely because the die hard fans disliked the newness of gameplay and that it did not go back to the original style of RA/Tiberium. The potential is lost.

You think Chris Roberts is making Wing Commander/Freelancer with just better graphics? His dream, is goal to make a better newer version of his games. He wants to improve upon and change the game because he did not have the technology back then to make it as he desired. It gives nod to his previous games but it increases the depth and content. He's got 12 or more months to add even more content.

Giving fans what they want is one thing. Give us too much power and you will never get the game you want. Every fan is different and has different visions of their dream game. When you push your malicious intent and it snowballs you get nothing.

But I guess it is too late, you let people follow that train. People posted numerous reviews on metacritic that were not even objective. You have some goonies filtering their news and reviews about MWO into their friends. Your friends take your opinions as truth and avoid the game. I can go on reddit and other forums to see hate being spewed against MWO.

if your wish comes to fruition and no one picks it up you can go play tabletop for the many coming years. I mean there is Mechwarrior Tactics but I don't get to pilot a mech in that.

Edit: I am jetlaged, tired, and utterly tired of what I consider Bull[Redacted].

Edited by Tichorius Davion, 02 November 2013 - 12:00 AM.


#11 Fuzzbox

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:42 AM

Thank you for the update, October was a bit quiet.

Sounds great that DX11 is progressing, and that you found whatever was blocking. I was about to ask as why there had been no mentions about it.

No mention on how the Community Warfare is progressing? This is the only thing I am awaiting, so any news here would be nice, even if there are delays.

#12 Kattspya

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 09:59 AM

This is how these are supposed to go. A matter of factly and most important of all a professional tone. GJ on that now hurry up with implementation.

#13 christophermx4

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 02:33 PM

Good stuff - I'm excited about the DX11 integration into the game.

#14 BigTaeng

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 03:34 PM

With regards to Windowed and Full Screen mode, will we be forced to run MechLab in Full Screen if that is how our game is setup?

A lot of us currently like the Windowed MechLab to make it easier to multi-task while we wait for our group to ready up. Alt-tabbing when in Full Screen mode usually takes longer, especially on lower end machines. We would like the option to be able to choose Windowed or Full Screen mode for MechLab separate from match launch.

#15 XphR

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 05:41 PM

I agree with BigTaeng,
It is very useful having a windowed application jump to full screen for the drop. It helps give access to VOIP applications, web pages and other tasks when someone in the lance has a quick errand or tweak to their Mech. Any way to remove the bug and not the feature?

Does this have anything to do with the mechlab running video cards to max heat if its left selected (I launch the game to cool my card back down..)?

#16 EoRaptor

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 07:43 PM

Thomas,

You mention unifying the the resolution and mode between the 'lobby/mechlab' and the in game experience. I ask, in the strongest possible terms, that you not do this until you can provide equivalent features in game that are now found in external tools, such as:

A global chat system with rooms, player hierarchy, and persistent messaging.
An in game voice chat system with equivalent functionality to mumble or teamspeak.
Mechlab upgrades that provide performance numbers for mechs 'as equipped' combined with ease of use improvements (see: smurfy, mechromancer).

These are the minimum features you need to support before you lock out easy access to them by jailing the mouse cursor or grabbing fullscreen. If you don't, people will continue to use third party tools and access them by alt-tabing or ctrl-entering the main game. This forced mode switching will have far worse problems than the 'scheduled' mode switching currently implemented, and you'll see more crashes and worse player experience.

I know you are trying to close off a path for bugs to be encountered by players, but this path needs to be there, and by erecting a gate, you are just encouraging people to jump it, not preventing the issues 'traveling' that path causes in the game engine. You need the carrot, not the stick.

Thanks.

P.S. To get 'Games for Windows' certified you need to support mode switching (alt-tab, ctrl-enter) anyway, so you might as well do the work and fix it now.

#17 Chopsaw

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:39 PM

I'm with FuzzyLog1c. I've been lurking for months waiting for the game to recover. I never downloaded the patch that included ghost heat and haven't played since that fateful Tuesday. I'm now going to give up lurking. Three other guys that I played with from my office have quit too.

I love how fixing a tool tip makes the patch feedback highlight list. Seriously? You need to dig that deep to make the list not look anemic? How about basic stuff like magic convergence and collisions? No mention of those being fixed in this technical update. [redacted]

Edited by miSs, 10 November 2013 - 11:07 AM.
nope.


#18 Troutmonkey

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 10:55 PM

View PostNiko Snow, on 01 November 2013 - 02:00 PM, said:

We are aware there are still some issues surrounding hit detection, particularly with SRMs and also certain Mechs hitboxes.

*cough* Spider *cough*

Edited by Troutmonkey, 02 November 2013 - 10:55 PM.


#19 ShadowDarter

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Posted 02 November 2013 - 11:31 PM

Always great to hear how the Technical side of PGI are handling the multiple problems that a MMO faces month to month, please keep the player base informed.

#20 Appogee

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Posted 03 November 2013 - 02:18 AM

Good update, thanks.

Please prioritise MatchMaking. As it stands, I am sitting here browsing the forum instead of playing the game, because I am tired of participating in ROFLstomps.

PS: I don't mind waiting a long time for a good game. That's a LOT better than waiting a short time for a bad game. The months in which the MatchMaker expected me to be able to prop up a half dozen incompetent players were the worst of all.





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