81 replies to this topic

[ColourfulConfetti]

Tahribator, on 02 November 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

I've been doing this in my A1 LRM kitty extensively during the last days. 6 ALRM5's of non-stop suppression. Maybe you've seen me? A few reasons for this trollage;

• I got sick of the poptarts. I hate them, I find poptarting an easy and destructive(for gameplay) way to play this game. I found out that with Target Decay and Target Acquisition modules you get enough time to hit a poptart even he went behind cover at long range. This annoys them to no end, screws up their aim and forces them to relocate everytime they pop. Since I do this with my own locks, they also get the Artemis groupings. Mind that HGN CT is sucks in all the damage in this case.
  
• Poptarts also get the "unending LRM chain" treatment if they are caught in the open. Since none of them sports AMS', they essentially get stunned by constant cockpit shake and explosions. They also melt very slowly. If they try to jumpjet their way out of it, they get legged quickly. If they try to run, they lose arms and sides quickly.
  
• I found out that by suppressing everything that pops out of cover(just one LRM5 shot and sometimes alpha), I can force the enemy team into a "passive mode". Slow hill humpers like Stalkers, Atlases(lol), Jagers get punished by sticking out. They see all the missiles and non-stop clatter of their AMS' and think "****, they have lots of LRM's. I better stick to cover". Soon, they get afraid of getting hit. With this kind of suppression, my team won games against overwhelming enemy tonnage.
  
• When the enemy is forced into submission, I close in and do "poplurming". Jump, acquire lock, alpha, watch as the crosshair turns red as the enemy gets hit by 33 alpha. There's nothing the enemy can do about it, as I only need to go high enough to get locks, unlike poptarts who also have to aim during this time.
  
• It's immensely fun and a good way to extract tears from enemy team. "LRM's take no skill!", "Autoaiming piece of ****!" and so on.

So, how do I survive without close range weaponry? I just stay with the main group, that's all. Sometimes the enemy gets mad and the whole lance comes for me, but they get picked off on the way by my teammates and more LRM's. Lights cannot attack you when you're with the pack and if you're really in trouble, use jumpjets to get on high objects while you wait for backup. My Cat with XL300 also has a respectable speed, so you can pull to LRM range from pretty much every Heavy and Assault mech.



As far as the effectiveness go, I currently have 89 kills and 19 deaths with this build; giving me a respectable 4.68 K/D ratio. I consider my Elo to be high, I play with top players all the time. It simply works.

What can you do about it? Get AMS. Seriously. It won't help much against alpha, but If I'm chaining you get to take out %80 of the missiles. If you stand near a teammate with AMS, you completely rip the LRM's.

I suggest more people to try it, to make PUGs more interesting for the elite CoD 360 poptarters.

You know what? I might actually try this build for myself, I too am sick to death of poptarters, make no mistake I don't mind 2-3 on the opposing team, but when its more than 5-6 per round, It's at the point where the game starts to feel bland. If half the team is going to poptart, then I have no qualms with lrming them to death with the endless cockpit shake of lrm fives. Thank a bunch for the suggestion and loadout tips btw. Your doing us all a favor by being a thorn in the side to the poptart crowd.

Edited by PalmaRoma, 02 November 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[Vassago Rain]

Agent 0 Fortune, on 01 November 2013 - 10:46 PM, said:

Actually LRM usage has increased significantly recently; likely thanks to the introduction of Project Phoenix mechs with their multitude of missile pods and distinct lack of ECM. The fact that LRMs aren’t seen in competitive Elo bracket is inconsequential, as it constitutes a small segment of the playerbase and doesn’t apply to the OPs question about how to defend against them.

Back on topic, the simple solution to chain fired LRMs is AMS, it destroyed 3-4 missiles per second at a range of 200m, meaning it will almost completely destroy an LRM5 before it hits you. However a better solution and one that will protect you from larger LRM pods is keep close to cover. That rule applies whether the enemy has LRMs or not, you almost always want to keep solid cover nearby, it will protect you from incoming fire while your weapons cooldown, and it will allow you to screen your opponents so they cannot attack you 2 v 1.

More like because SRMs will now hit about 50% of the time, at best. I've put my atlases on hold because of this.

[Texas Merc]

I came here for the lols but yeah srms are ****

e: to be fair what you are seeing is the tight grouping of the lrm5s, but while chainfired you should be able to get out of the way.(thats what gets the lols)

Edited by Texas Merc, 02 November 2013 - 02:22 AM.

[Wispsy]

Tahribator, on 02 November 2013 - 02:02 AM, said:

I've been doing this in my A1 LRM kitty extensively during the last days in EU TZ. 6 ALRM5's of non-stop suppression. Maybe you've seen me? A few reasons for this trollage;

• I got sick of the poptarts. I hate them, I find poptarting an easy and destructive(for gameplay) way to play this game. I found out that with Target Decay and Target Acquisition modules you get enough time to hit a poptart even he went behind cover at long range. This annoys them to no end, screws up their aim and forces them to relocate everytime they pop. Since I do this with my own locks, they also get the Artemis groupings. Mind that HGN CT sucks in all the damage in this case.
  
• Poptarts also get the "unending LRM chain" treatment if they are caught in the open. Since none of them sports AMS', they essentially get stunned by constant cockpit shake and explosions. They also melt very slowly. If they try to jumpjet their way out of it, they get legged quickly. If they try to run, they lose arms and sides quickly.
  
• I found out that by suppressing everything that pops out of cover(just one LRM5 shot and sometimes alpha), I can force the enemy team into a "passive mode". Slow hill humpers like Stalkers, Atlases(lol), Jagers get punished by sticking out. They see all the missiles and non-stop clatter of their AMS' and think "****, they have lots of LRM's. I better stick to cover". Soon, they get afraid of getting hit. With this kind of suppression, my team won games against overwhelming enemy tonnage. This allows my team to move unhindered across the map.
  
• When the enemy is forced into submission, I close in and do "poplurming". Jump, acquire lock, alpha, watch as the crosshair turns red as the enemy gets hit by 33 alpha. There's nothing the enemy can do about it, as I only need to go high enough to get locks, unlike poptarts who also have to aim during this time.
  
• It's immensely fun and a good way to extract tears from enemy team. "LRM's take no skill!", "Autoaiming piece of ****!" and so on.

So, how do I survive without close range weaponry? I just stay with the main group, that's all. Sometimes the enemy gets mad and the whole lance comes for me, but they get picked off on the way by my teammates and more LRM's. Lights cannot attack you when you're with the pack and if you're really in trouble, use jumpjets to get on high objects while you wait for backup. My Cat with XL300 also has a respectable speed, so you can pull to LRM range from pretty much every Heavy and Assault mech.

As far as the effectiveness go, I currently have 89 kills and 19 deaths with this mech; giving me a respectable 4.68 K/D ratio. Most of the deaths are from other sub-optimal builds. I consider my Elo to be high, I play with top players all the time. It works.

What can you do about it? Get AMS. Seriously. It won't help much against alpha, but If I'm chaining you get to take out %80 of the missiles. If you stand near a teammate with AMS, you completely rip the LRM's. You'll still be suppressed by odd missiles escaping AMS' though.

I suggest more people to try it, to make PUGs more interesting for the elite CoD 360 poptarters.

You find poptarting too easymode so instead you play lrms?

Oh the logic...it hurts my head...

[FerrolupisXIII]

Chain fired 5's are sorta meh. any AMS takes most of the missiles down. multiples pretty much cancel it all together. volley fire is better for that, but then why did you bring 6x 5 instead of 2x 15? so its a little hit or miss sometimes.

the DPS is pretty good for an LRM mech, in theory. and the cockpit shake is absolutely ridiculous. its that 2nd part that is truly deadly, as you can do little to nothing until you can get cover.

however, its on one of the squishy heavy mechs that if you can get to it will probably have absolutely nothing to defend its self with. or, stay about 200m (out side of his BAP range. because he did bring a BAP, right?) from it with an ECM mech and giggle while he rages.

Protip: the LRM 5 really doesn't need Artemis, save yourself 6 tons oh, and get a buddy in a spider to spot for you and make everyone absolutely LOATH you.

[KinLuu]

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2013 - 12:36 AM, said:

Unfortunately, if the rest of your team doesn't know how to deal with LRM boats, it doesn't really help very much that you, as a pugger, do know how. It's not a problem in competitive matches, apparently, but you choke on your condescending laughter real fast when 5 guys on your PUG team just got wiped out by a 12-year-old in a Stalker.

It's very rare that this is a problem for me, it's certainly not a FOTM. But I do sometimes end up with teammates who think they are invulnerable to LRMs and engage in long range duels with their triple AC2, no cover and no AMS.

inb4 elo gutter and carry harder.

Bring ECM, it will improve the durability of your PUGs by a considerable margin. Even if the other team does not bring a LRM premade.

[Tahribator]

FerrolupisXIII, on 02 November 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Protip: the LRM 5 really doesn't need Artemis, save yourself 6 tons oh, and get a buddy in a spider to spot for you and make everyone absolutely LOATH you.

Artemis decreases the lock time a tiny bit. That's the biggest advantage for me.

Wispsy, on 02 November 2013 - 02:34 AM, said:

You find poptarting too easymode so instead you play lrms?

Oh the logic...it hurts my head...

Ever heard of troll builds? No? I do this when during the USA TZ, when all the "pro" squads start pugstomping. I'm usually in my SRM+ML brawler against all odds, melting your face.

But what do you do when you've had enough with them? Do you still brawl against all odds? Poptart yourself? Nope. You go boat LRM's in a highly mobile mech, abuse another mechanic instead of other, and let the tears flow in your relief.

Edited by Tahribator, 02 November 2013 - 03:12 AM.

[Alistair Winter]

KinLuu, on 02 November 2013 - 02:44 AM, said:

Bring ECM, it will improve the durability of your PUGs by a considerable margin. Even if the other team does not bring a LRM premade.

Indeed, my Raven 3L has the highest win/lose ratio of all my mechs. My Cicada 3M... not so much, since I use it as a stealthy gauss sniper, which is great fun, but in no way helps my team.

[Henry Morgan]

zazz0000, on 01 November 2013 - 07:11 PM, said:

A single AMS seems to have limited to no effect. ~10DPS, and indirect fire ability, makes this build pretty damn hard to work against.

Wondering if anyone has seen these builds crop up, and any ideas to deal with them?

I think you answered your own question in the sentence above it. A single AMS might not take it all out. But stick together with your team, and have multiple AMS coverage zones, and the LRM "flood" becomes ineffective. Run off and try to fight the enemy by yourself, and you can pretty much count on dying by yourself too.

[Wispsy]

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2013 - 02:57 AM, said:

Indeed, my Raven 3L has the highest win/lose ratio of all my mechs. My Cicada 3M... not so much, since I use it as a stealthy gauss sniper, which is great fun, but in no way helps my team.

My cicada is a ppc/erppc sniper with a 15 win/loss!!


Tahribator I do not care what you use, makes no difference to me but when you say you use lrms to escape easymode...lol whatever what you describe is exactly like the role of the poptarter, you simply do not have to aim as well whilst doing that lol.

[Tahribator]

Wispsy, on 02 November 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

Tahribator I do not care what you use, makes no difference to me but when you say you use lrms to escape easymode...lol whatever what you describe is exactly like the role of the poptarter, you simply do not have to aim as well whilst doing that lol.

The fact that I'm receiving tears in forums is a testiment to this builds' effectiveness.

[Alistair Winter]

Wispsy, on 02 November 2013 - 03:35 AM, said:

My cicada is a ppc/erppc sniper with a 15 win/loss!!

Oh yeah, I definitely agree that a dual [ER] PPC build is better. The Gaussicada is more of a personal challenge, since most people are talking about how useless the gauss rifle is currently. I used to have a similar project with the dual gauss CTF-3D, but now a lot of people are actually using that build. You might say... I did it before it was cool.

As for a 15 win/loss ratio, that's quite impressive, but considering the caliber of people you play with, I suspect that even my mother piloting a Locust would have a positive win/lose ratio if she took your place in one of those premades.

[FerrolupisXIII]

Tahribator, on 02 November 2013 - 02:50 AM, said:

Artemis decreases the lock time a tiny bit. That's the biggest advantage for me.

i *believe* thats only with LOS but i don't find it worth 6 tons of space in this particular case. otherwise i use it on all my builds.

[OneEyed Jack]

FerrolupisXIII, on 02 November 2013 - 02:35 AM, said:

Chain fired 5's are sorta meh. any AMS takes most of the missiles down. multiples pretty much cancel it all together. volley fire is better for that, but then why did you bring 6x 5 instead of 2x 15? so its a little hit or miss sometimes.

the DPS is pretty good for an LRM mech, in theory. and the cockpit shake is absolutely ridiculous. its that 2nd part that is truly deadly, as you can do little to nothing until you can get cover.

LRM5s because they have a much higher RoF for the same number of missiles. You also get the option of chaining or group-firing for different circumstances. For instance, firing shots you know won't hit, just to keep the target in cover, and wasting 5 missiles instead of 15. Also, missile spread is much smaller on 5-packs than a a 15, and without needing Artemis.

Personally, I won't field a 15- or 20-pack without Artemis, so a 15-pack is automatically 8 tons, but 3x 5-packs don't need Artemis and are only 6 tons with higher RoF. The only loss is a little lock-on speed and marginally higher heat. I do agree that a 50% increase in tonnage and 100% in crits makes Artemis a poor investment for only lock-on speed as a return for 5-packs, since I don't believe the spread decrease is useful. But I guess it could be looked at that it's only 1 ton extra (compared to a 15-pack with Arty) for the higher RoF.

On the topic of what to do about the constant LRM5s, I must say I've never had an issue with it. I play on minimum settings at an FPS that most people would consider unplayable, and LRM5s have never bothered me in the time they've been a "thing." Turn your setting down, pack an AMS and try to learn to ignore screen shake? Maybe it's just having gone through the release of CTFs and 4xAC2 back when it had real screen shake, but I haven't encountered a weapon in the current game that makes me feel like I can't respond... unless it's a case where my FPS has for some reason plummeted to even lower levels (8-10), which it sometimes does.

Edited by OneEyed Jack, 02 November 2013 - 04:04 AM.

[Wispsy]

Tahribator, on 02 November 2013 - 03:44 AM, said:

The fact that I'm receiving tears in forums is a testiment to this builds' effectiveness.

way to not read what I said twice...ok...whatever...

Alistair Winter, on 02 November 2013 - 03:47 AM, said:

Oh yeah, I definitely agree that a dual [ER] PPC build is better. The Gaussicada is more of a personal challenge, since most people are talking about how useless the gauss rifle is currently. I used to have a similar project with the dual gauss CTF-3D, but now a lot of people are actually using that build. You might say... I did it before it was cool.

As for a 15 win/loss ratio, that's quite impressive, but considering the caliber of people you play with, I suspect that even my mother piloting a Locust would have a positive win/lose ratio if she took your place in one of those premades.

I find dual er too hot now to do anything with. But yes my premade helps but so often it is basically 4v12 lol so still not too bad, also I do my part honest it is not all me being carried just mostly

[Alistair Winter]

Wispsy, on 02 November 2013 - 04:35 AM, said:

I find dual er too hot now to do anything with. But yes my premade helps but so often it is basically 4v12 lol so still not too bad, also I do my part honest it is not all me being carried just mostly

I considered editing my post to make it clear that I wasn't implying you were just being carried. But ultimately, I decided against it, because I'm an ***-hole.

Edited by Alistair Winter, 02 November 2013 - 04:50 AM.

[Cerberias]

It'll work against bad players.. or if you can catch them by surprise because they're not expecting such a wierd build...

[Roadbeer]

OuttaAmmo NoWai, on 01 November 2013 - 07:12 PM, said:

You never see them at a competitive meta-humping

FTFY

[FerrolupisXIII]

OneEyed Jack, on 02 November 2013 - 04:02 AM, said:

snip

im sorry if i came off not knowing why people do it, i'm actually quite well versed in LRM mechanics. im the go to guy in my group when a newbie has questions on it, i fully understand the interaction. i prefer ALRM-15's on a XL300 catapult setup of mine i am quite fond of. (side note: 6x LRM-5 A1 is one of the few catapults i run a standard in, because what else do i do with the tonnage?)

Personally, i cant tolerate not having something to shoot when someone gets near me.

when i do run the Spamapult, as i like to call it, i run it with max standard engine, and jump jets. because if you're going to not have a plan B, plan C is RUN LIKE FRAK

I am glad someone agrees ALRM-5's are a bit of a waste. especially en masse like that.

*edit* Tee-hee FRAK is an ok swear word

Edited by FerrolupisXIII, 02 November 2013 - 06:19 AM.

[zazz0000]

Ok, good stuff guys, thanks for the replies.

I guess it was quite premature to call it a new FoTM, it's just that a week back I saw one for the first time and was like... wow. interesting. Never seen that b4 etc.

Then I started seing them pop up more and more, til I finally encountered two of these things working together. And the effectiveness of a single AMS decreases in a non-linear fassion when dealing with mith multiples of these things.

These things seem like can be pretty badass if used en masse and in a coordinated fassion. I'd hate to run into a premade of 3 spam-cats and a good spotter on alpine.

And in a 1v1 scenario in the open they can be annoying as well, since the non-stop screen shake makes it hard to bring guns to bear.

But yea. Wasn't griefing. Wasn't OMG UNINSTALLING THE GAME or SPAM CATS OP NERF LRM INTO GROUND!!! lol. Just wanted to hear some thoughts.