154 replies to this topic

[Kunae]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

If Spiders could replace Jenners and Ravens in competitive play, it would be the first thing we would do. They weigh less, which would free up more tonnage for the real mechs that go out there and win the game (aka Assaults).

Do you really think that you have found some super-secret imbalance that none of the rest of us know about? You think you found out that the Spider is "broken" and those who spend hours and hours testing mechs just never thought to try it out? We all try it out, and guess what, if you play against people who can aim, Spiders are terrible. None of the top teams use them. All top teams use mainly Jenners, and occasionally Ravens. We try Spiders every once in awhile, but it never works out. Why? Again, the general population is absolutely horrible at aiming, they think they hit when they don't, and they misrepresent their own abilities.

TL;DR: You think Spiders are invincible because you cannot hit them. The best players in this game might find Spiders as a bit of an annoyance, but they are one of the worst and least-used mechs in the game at a competitive level because they are bad against good players. Next time you want to make a thread about how broken and OP Spiders are, remember that the reason you are saying it is because you haven't taken the time to learn how to aim or position yourself properly, and if you were good you would not think they are "too good." Saying you think Spiders are "too good" is a perfect litmus test for detecting a bad or average player, because there is a grand total of 0, zilch, nada top players who think Spiders are "too good" EVEN IF they think they have hit detection problems. Remember that, you are calling attention to your own poor play by saying you think Spiders are overpowered.

It's not consistent, is why they're not used. It varies between players, and matches.

If it were a consistent thing, yes, you'd see them everywhere, just like you used to see Ravens for the same reason.

Edited by Kunae, 05 November 2013 - 10:19 AM.

[Trauglodyte]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 09:59 AM, said:

Please don't make me have to call on my credentials again, because I always do it happily. You could just pick someone who you are willing to admit is a top tier player, if you know any, and ask them if I belong.

I would be careful in pulling that card, PEEF. A player's KDR or W/L ratio is more the product of their team and less about the mech that they're using. Much like kills in a game is often a product of luck and the overall weight of the mech in use (and skill), which is a product of the weapons available for use, how often you win is entirely predicated on how good the rest of your team is, how effective your strategy is, mechs in use and overall tonnage vs that of your opponent, and how well your team communicates. If you were to play 100 games in a trial Commando and only queue as a solo PUGGer, I'm pretty certain that your W/L and KDR would plummet despite how good you are.

[DaZur]

Oni Ralas, on 05 November 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

I don't care if thor himself blew his load on your mouse and gave you ultramega poptart abilities

My...my minds eye.

That's an image permanently burned into my cerebral retina that no amount of Visine will wash a way...

[Vodrin Thales]

PEEFsmash, on 05 November 2013 - 09:41 AM, said:

If Spiders could replace Jenners and Ravens in competitive play, it would be the first thing we would do. They weigh less, which would free up more tonnage for the real mechs that go out there and win the game (aka Assaults).

Do you really think that you have found some super-secret imbalance that none of the rest of us know about? You think you found out that the Spider is "broken" and those who spend hours and hours testing mechs just never thought to try it out? We all try it out, and guess what, if you play against people who can aim, Spiders are terrible. None of the top teams use them. All top teams use mainly Jenners, and occasionally Ravens. We try Spiders every once in awhile, but it never works out. Why? Again, the general population is absolutely horrible at aiming, they think they hit when they don't, and they misrepresent their own abilities.

TL;DR: You think Spiders are invincible because you cannot hit them. The best players in this game might find Spiders as a bit of an annoyance, but they are one of the worst and least-used mechs in the game at a competitive level because they are bad against good players. Next time you want to make a thread about how broken and OP Spiders are, remember that the reason you are saying it is because you haven't taken the time to learn how to aim or position yourself properly, and if you were good you would not think they are "too good." Saying you think Spiders are "too good" is a perfect litmus test for detecting a bad or average player, because there is a grand total of 0, zilch, nada top players who think Spiders are "too good" EVEN IF they think they have hit detection problems. Remember that, you are calling attention to your own poor play by saying you think Spiders are overpowered.

I think you would admit that even at the top levels of play that spiders have better survivability than the raven or jenner. It's just that their advantage there is somewhat limited against good marksman, and what they give up in firepower makes other options better. Spiders would have a place in competitive play if lights were valued for staying alive and spotting over functioning as fast skirmishers.

[Joseph Mallan]

I don't know which is worse, PEEFs Bravado over being a gaming god, or that you cry that you suck at a game and drive an Aston!

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Iv killed peef a few times. Now he runs from me when he sees me in any one of my lights.

Other then that, I have no issue with squashing spiders in game. In real life I love spiders. I have a rose haired tarantula.

[KinLuu]

Spiders deal no damage. Jenners deal a lot of damage, especially if they are allowed to operate freely.

[Gallowglas]

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 05 November 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

In real life I love spiders. I have a rose haired tarantula.

We can never be friends.

[Vodrin Thales]

Gallowglas, on 05 November 2013 - 09:53 AM, said:

Respectfully, Peef: the problem isn't that they're particularly OP. It's that there's a sporatic issue in which damage doesn't register properly. People aren't just being poor shots and imagining it. No, it's not just limited to the Spider either. I've seen it happen with Phracts and even Victors too, but it seems to happen very frequently with Spiders. Heck, two of our Spider pilots (finally) acknowledged it when they saw it in action on one of their Spiders last night. The paper doll flashes and very little damage registers, if any.

In essence, it doesn't matter whether the chassis is viable in competitive play or not. What matters is that it's a broken mechanic. I've said it before and I'll say it again: if a light mech could turn totally invisible due to a bug, would you be okay with it just as long as it wasn't used in competitive play or so long as people were able to kill one by watching where their lasers came from? No? If not, ask yourself why. The answer is the same as the answer to why people want the hit issues to be fixed.

I think his somewhat poorly stated point is that the hit registration issues do no translate into enough of an advantage to make them better than Jenners or Ravens in the hands of skilled pilots, and when facing skilled pilots. As a result the "Spiders are OP" threads are a bit much to read constantly.

[DaZur]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 November 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I don't know which is worse, PEEFs Bravado over being a gaming god, or that you cry that you suck at a game and drive an Aston!

I'm a PUGging Juggernaut that can be likened to a pseudo-deity that gets teary-eyed while driving my Honda...

Do I win the space-bucks for getting the trifecta?

Edited by DaZur, 05 November 2013 - 10:27 AM.

[Oni Ralas]

DaZur, on 05 November 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

[/size]
My...my minds eye.

That's an image permanently burned into my cerebral retina that no amount of Visine will wash a way...

Hehehehe I am a cunning linguist.

Edited by Oni Ralas, 05 November 2013 - 10:26 AM.

[sokitumi]

This is a special ed thread started with humble bragging egomania.

Edited by sokitumi, 05 November 2013 - 10:28 AM.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Gallowglas, on 05 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

We can never be friends.

your loss, I give happy [/end]ings

[Gallowglas]

Vodrin Thales, on 05 November 2013 - 10:24 AM, said:

I think his somewhat poorly stated point is that the hit registration issues do no translate into enough of an advantage to make them better than Jenners or Ravens in the hands of skilled pilots, and when facing skilled pilots. As a result the "Spiders are OP" threads are a bit much to read constantly.

Point taken. I would simply contend that it's frequent enough, broken enough, arbitrary enough, and frustration-inducing enough to merit a call for action. Something doesn't have to be OP to completely not belong in the game. Otherwise, none of us would have called for fixes to the HUD when problems with that were so rampant.

[Oni Ralas]

Joseph Mallan, on 05 November 2013 - 10:21 AM, said:

I don't know which is worse, PEEFs Bravado over being a gaming god, or that you cry that you suck at a game and drive an Aston!

I don't really cry... but I have an obsession with cars

Funkadelic Mayhem, on 05 November 2013 - 10:28 AM, said:

your loss, I give happy [/end]ings

Well hello there...

[ogy]

spiders are not op.....there just ******* broke.

[Mister Blastman]

Oni Ralas, on 05 November 2013 - 10:18 AM, said:

while driving home in my Aston.

I'm glad you waste your life pursuing material gain. When you die, what good will it do you? The only things that matter in life are family, friends and how you helped change other people's lives for the better. Everything else is fruitless and shallow.

[Rhaythe]

So when I smash a spider's CT into flaky dust with a well-placed shot from an AC20, am I good, lucky, or broken? I really can't tell these days.

[Murphy7]

Trauglodyte, on 05 November 2013 - 10:20 AM, said:

I would be careful in pulling that card, PEEF. A player's KDR or W/L ratio is more the product of their team and less about the mech that they're using. Much like kills in a game is often a product of luck and the overall weight of the mech in use (and skill), which is a product of the weapons available for use, how often you win is entirely predicated on how good the rest of your team is, how effective your strategy is, mechs in use and overall tonnage vs that of your opponent, and how well your team communicates. If you were to play 100 games in a trial Commando and only queue as a solo PUGGer, I'm pretty certain that your W/L and KDR would plummet despite how good you are.

With apologies to St. Louis, consider this year's Red Sox

Sure they won the World Series, but some of that team includes Middlebrooks (AA/AAA player really, nice power and terrible plate discipline) and Saltalamacchia (inconsistent offense and couldn't throw a baserunner out if he was allowed to hire bouncers. Drew turned an American League lineup into a good approximation of the National League.

ELO is W/L ratio, your kills, damage, opportunities, and survivability are related to teamwork and coordinated effort.

[Funkadelic Mayhem]

Mister Blastman, on 05 November 2013 - 10:29 AM, said:

I'm glad you waste your life pursuing material gain. When you die, what good will it do you? The only things that matter in life are family, friends and how you helped change other people's lives for the better. Everything else is fruitless and shallow.

actually when you die none of that matters... none of anything matters. "The dead know only one thing: it is better to be alive"