191 replies to this topic

[Jakob Knight]

I have to wonder sometimes if people really understand what they are talking about. This talk of 'wallhack' is stupid, since it came from first-person shooters where the shooter was an infantryman and the hack was a magically ability an infantryman would not have. By comparison, MWO is about combat between very advanced armored -vehicles-, which have a wide range of sensor equipment on board. Being able to detect a target out of visual line-of-sight is quite reasonable, and happens in the real world through various means (MAD, seismic, penetrating radar, x-ray, ect).

If anything, the seismic in MWO is far too limited, considering that actual seismic sensors can detect events miles/kilometers away.

So let's leave the 'wallhack' claims back in the Counterstrike games where it came from and keep in mind that you are -not- an infantryman with a rifle. You are a pilot in a multi-ton, multi-sensor vehicle designed to operate and fight in the depths of the ocean, the vacuum of space, the zero visibility of dust planets, or the blinding light of a superluminous star with equal capability to find and destroy the enemy.

[RussianWolf]

Jakob Knight, on 07 November 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

If anything, the seismic in MWO is far too limited, considering that actual seismic sensors can detect events miles/kilometers away.

True, but with actual seismic sensors you need at least two (preferably more than three) separated by more than a few meters in order to triangulate a location of an impact. The sensor on a mech would at best give you a general direction, not a blip. It also wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 30 ton impact at 100 meters and a 90 ton impact at 1000 meters. soil composition would also have an effect on it.

So if it were like an Actual Seismic sensor it would have a longer range, but give you very vague data on the location of the impact.

[Jakob Knight]

RussianWolf, on 07 November 2013 - 12:02 PM, said:

True, but with actual seismic sensors you need at least two (preferably more than three) separated by more than a few meters in order to triangulate a location of an impact. The sensor on a mech would at best give you a general direction, not a blip. It also wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 30 ton impact at 100 meters and a 90 ton impact at 1000 meters. soil composition would also have an effect on it.

So if it were like an Actual Seismic sensor it would have a longer range, but give you very vague data on the location of the impact.

That would depend on how good the two sensors in the mech's feet were at the tech level we are talking about. I agree the discrimination wouldn't be that good, but some things have to be simplified in order to keep the code from becoming so monstrous that it impacts gameplay. I remember playing Seawolf, where you had to do -alot- of cross-triangulation and learn to read a variety of sensors if you wanted to be the one alive at the end of a fight, but I don't think the current population of MWO would be able to handle that (note the elimination of R&R, among other things).

My point was that people were looking at this through the infantryman perspective they learned playing FPS games, and forget that, yes, battlemechs -do- have the kind of sensors where this makes sense, and it is not a wallhack. Now, if the battlemech could bend spacetime to fire a particle cannon around and through terrain and hit the target in the back from the front, I'd have a bone with that. However, treating what a battlemech can do the same as an infantryman is making a very big mistake.

[NuclearPanda]

Jakob Knight, on 07 November 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

Now, if the battlemech could bend spacetime to fire a particle cannon around and through terrain and hit the target in the back from the front, I'd have a bone with that.

Funny thing about that, that is an actual known issue they're having problems with still occasionally lol.

[Geek Verve]

Jakob Knight, on 07 November 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I have to wonder sometimes if people really understand what they are talking about. This talk of 'wallhack' is stupid, since it came from first-person shooters where the shooter was an infantryman and the hack was a magically ability an infantryman would not have.

Well, in all fairness you can get a certain level of seismic detection from a glass of water (of course, you would have to stand still for that, too ). I'd say a portable electronic device that provides seismic feedback would be well within the realm of reason.

[Ensaine]

Geek Verve, on 07 November 2013 - 06:59 AM, said:

Sorry, we every right to address perceived concerns that could effect changes to the game we play. If you're looking for a biased mob, you've come to the wrong place.


You're new to the concept of "nerfs", eh? Adjustments to game features can't always just be to the positive. If that were the case, you could look forward to the day when we're all running around with quad-150-megaton light-speed nukes.


But my guess would be that you "got what you paid for".


Lol, yeah, that's right. They just sit in their ivory tower all day, scheming and dreaming up ways to stick it to their golden goose.

Also, you're aware you can convert mech XP to GXP, right? It's pretty inexpensive to do.

Reading comprehension fail, is all I can say. Nothing more be said (to you anyways).

Edited by Ensaine, 07 November 2013 - 02:33 PM.

[Bront]

1) Siesmic needed some kind of nerf. It was THE must have module.
2) I'm not sure if this was the best nerf. It's better, but it might have been a bit of an overkill

Now, I got one the day before the nerf (Knowing it was getting nerfed), and I've found it useful since then. It looks like you don't have to be 100% still, but have the throttle set to 0 and be going under 10% of your speed. In light mechs, you can stop and use it quickly. In larger mechs, you stop quite a bit. You just have to be more consious of it's uses. It also means that some of the other modules might be more useful.

If they keep it this way, they need to drop the price (and refund the cost). Drop it to a 3,000,000 module.

[Grendel408]

I use Lights and Medium Mechs... I endorse the change to the Seismic Modules <ducks and runs out the room>

[JeffGoldblum]

Terrible needless nerf that is a slap in the face of the people who purchased something and ended up getting something completely different. If they offer a chance to sell it back at full price then I will be complacent in doing so and won't be upset. But as it stands it IS near useless, standing still gets you killed. And this module only works when you stand still around enemy mechs. Pretty useless.

[ShinVector]

xhrit, on 07 November 2013 - 10:08 AM, said:

There is a wallhack module in MWO, it is called the Magnetometer. It has not been released yet.

PGI ! Don't you dare release this {Scrap}. Hope you learnt your lesson with the seismic debacle !

[Celtic Warrior]

Regardless of it's more realistic or not but PGI offered an expensive piece of equipment that... my gosh people liked! and used! So it needs to be nerfed WTF? We purchased these because of the way they worked not because of the way they should have worked.

LAME!!!!

[Troa Barton]

if these mechs have computers capable of moving a 100 ton mech and keeping it upright then they should also be able to differentiate your steps, linked allies steps and identify foreign seismic activity.

i agree at full tilt this seems a little unrealistic but myself personally think a dead stop is a bit far.
rather than a full stop id suggest that this have a % graph depending on weight.
60% throttle and below for light mechs
50% mediums
40% heavies
and 25% for assaults
within that throttle range a mech can benefit from seismic sensor.

stopping in a light is almost always a bad idea.
to me this would be a more balanced approach for the change.

[Thorqemada]

Seismic is now in a pretty good place of "Balance".

[Squidhead Jax]

This was a good change, with more 'realism' (or less inaccurately, verisimilitude) to it.

If they'd just implemented this and not other stupid things that are off-topic to this thread, I'd be happy.

[Vaderman]

Kataiser, on 05 November 2013 - 04:31 PM, said:

New Seismic is balanced. The old one was atrociously overpowered, and now it takes something representing thought to use. Hit X, scan minimap, walk on. If you play cautiously, you can still advance and get seismic data pretty effectively. Lights aren't hit as hard with the nerf for IDing enemies before engagement (due to faster accel/decel), but have it worse off for mid-fight location marking. Missile boats can still use it to effect as a warning for incoming enemies, and fast-moving Mediums that don't pilot recklessly can use it to fantastic effect.

Overall, I think that it needs a tiny buff in effectiveness as well as a minor price drop, but it isn't the end of the ******* world and it definitely isn't a terrible thing. This nerf was necessary and makes MWO a much better game.

This is why i bought one, realized how overpowered it was, and stopped using it.

The incoming nerf was obvious.

[ShinVector]

Jakob Knight, on 07 November 2013 - 11:47 AM, said:

I have to wonder sometimes if people really understand what they are talking about. This talk of 'wallhack' is stupid, since it came from first-person shooters where the shooter was an infantryman and the hack was a magically ability an infantryman would not have. By comparison, MWO is about combat between very advanced armored -vehicles-, which have a wide range of sensor equipment on board. Being able to detect a target out of visual line-of-sight is quite reasonable, and happens in the real world through various means (MAD, seismic, penetrating radar, x-ray, ect).

If anything, the seismic in MWO is far too limited, considering that actual seismic sensors can detect events miles/kilometers away.

So let's leave the 'wallhack' claims back in the Counterstrike games where it came from and keep in mind that you are -not- an infantryman with a rifle. You are a pilot in a multi-ton, multi-sensor vehicle designed to operate and fight in the depths of the ocean, the vacuum of space, the zero visibility of dust planets, or the blinding light of a superluminous star with equal capability to find and destroy the enemy.

I will say this... Alternative strategies like sneaking around, backstabbing was lots of fun to do pre-seismic 'wallhack'.
It's introduction totally screwed over people who enjoyed that META...

With this nerf... I can start to see this slowly coming back... People no longer aware where is the enemy is all the time in real time. The nerf was a step in the right direction... However I would rather they removed it completely and refund everybody.

[Levon K]

Everyone complaining about seismic seems so selfish. You do realize that nobody will be able to use seismic against you, right? I see it as a welcome balance change.

Also, asking for a refund for seismic module? Hehe, did you get a refund on all your gauss rifle purchases as well?

[ShinVector]

Levon K, on 07 November 2013 - 10:36 PM, said:

Everyone complaining about seismic seems so selfish. You do realize that nobody will be able to use seismic against you, right? I see it as a welcome balance change.

Also, asking for a refund for seismic module? Hehe, did you get a refund on all your gauss rifle purchases as well?

Hmmm... I would say not true...
I was in a match where people were camping the Epi area in Blood Bay...
4-5 of them would focus on us the moment we tried to peek...

So I suspect they were standing around to be able to use siesmic..
Too bad we didn't have the right equipment or mechs to deal with the situation, it was hard to deal with.

Edited by ShinVector, 07 November 2013 - 10:43 PM.

[Grayve]

Modules are meant to give you an advantage, you choose which kinds of advantages you want and work off the XP to buy them. Giving us a module that needs 2 stages of XP spent to have more awareness of the battlefield and then taking its effectiveness away is just plain stupid. Especially since everyone had the option to use it. So what's next? Making Advanced zoom blurry again? Making ECM useless? Having these modules is what makes this game so fun, because you can fit your mech with so many things, it makes it really strategic. There's nerfs here and there, some weapons loose a bit of efficiency, some gain a bit, but this is quite a big change, i get why people are angry, i am too. I could have spent all this XP on Sensor range instead, all my mechs need to stay moving to survive, so this module is pretty much useless to me now. Plus if realism was the main goal we should now see blobs where allies walk to and have bigger blobs the closer to you they are. So that's not a valid argument. Just change it back or find something less of a change and make this right PGI. This module isn't worth the XP anymore now.

[Jakob Knight]

ShinVector, on 07 November 2013 - 10:14 PM, said:

I will say this... Alternative strategies like sneaking around, backstabbing was lots of fun to do pre-seismic 'wallhack'.
It's introduction totally screwed over people who enjoyed that META...

With this nerf... I can start to see this slowly coming back... People no longer aware where is the enemy is all the time in real time. The nerf was a step in the right direction... However I would rather they removed it completely and refund everybody.

And so we hear from another Counterstrike infantryman who can't understand piloting an advanced armored vehicle. I guess my point was totally lost even after being quoted.