191 replies to this topic

[Durant Carlyle]

There won't be less lights in the game, there will be more. Other 'Mechs are now less of a danger to lights, as they cannot constantly track us while they are moving. If they stand still, sure -- but then they are easier to focus down just like we are when we stand still.

And yes, we light pilots have to be more careful instead of zooming around the battlefield willy-nilly relying heavily on one particular module. This is also a good thing.

Edited by Durant Carlyle, 05 November 2013 - 01:24 PM.

[NuclearPanda]

Frogfire, on 05 November 2013 - 01:17 PM, said:

Realism would also mean that dust or mist would dull your lasers, or padding your mech in mirrors would severely limit their effect. It would mean that smacking your mech into a cliff wall at 130kph would dent your armor. Or losing a leg would topple you over, since you cannot tilt your upper body to find balance.

As a matter of fact you should absolutely take damage from slamming full speed into a mountain. And collisions/knockdowns should definitely be added back in. It's already been confirmed that it's coming back.

[Thipequz]

Durant Carlyle, on 05 November 2013 - 01:15 PM, said:

Wow, you're a real party pooper.

The game is going places. Community Warfare is coming. It might not be all the devs (and us) ever wanted it to be, but that's the reality of game development. Some things just can't be done, or would be horrendously expensive to do ... and you don't learn those things until far later in the process.

NuclearPanda -- No one here on the forums wanted 3PV. Evidently they received a lot more responses via E-mail or something that led them to think we (the forum majority) are the minority.

Thipequz -- you got your 48 million C-Bills worth out of the modules already. And you can still use them, with some adjustments to play style. Remember that you're still better off with them than you were before Seismic was introduced.

Are you going to ask for a C-Bill refund for every item you didn't think you got your money's worth out of? lol

And this is a free to play game -- there will be constant adjustments to lots of different things in the game. Expecting anything else is runrealistic.

First of all, Yes, this game does still have a lot to offer, the fact that we all get so frustrated with how long things take to happen is just because we care about the success and the quality of this game and this franchise.

Secondly, no, I haven't have 48,000,000 c-bills of use, that's the equivalent of all the light mech chassis' and varients value and some of the medium mechs too, had I bought those instead, I would be much more content with my purchases (at this point). Yes game mechanics do change, and who can argue with that, but sometimes making alterations to such an expensive piece of equipment can (and clearly has) caused some animosity and frustration, as it is not even close to the original state that it was introduced as. If they nerfed ppc's to fire once and explode, I imagine people would be pissed about that too!

[NuclearPanda]

d34th4nd, on 05 November 2013 - 01:21 PM, said:

As primarily a light player the only thing this Nerf has done is give me a "your being shot by the enemy/there's an enemy shooting near you" sensor which i am fully aware off as i am capable of seeing that there is weapons fire. the pre Nerf module allowed my locust, Jenner, raven have sitautonal awareness that now if i run straight into an atlas its a sure thing i am dead as opposed to my previous mentality of "well that's to hot for this little thing move on" i think that is what thipequz and jacob knight are getting at

You still have situational awareness. Use cover, stand still for a moment, gather intel with your Seismic, relay to teammates, move on and flank/harass like a Light Mech is supposed to do.

Edited by NuclearPanda, 05 November 2013 - 01:30 PM.

[Durant Carlyle]

lol

Exaggerate a bit much?

The module is still useful. It's simply no longer gawd mode.

It's nowhere near a use-once-then-explode PPC.

[Geek Verve]

Jakob Knight, on 05 November 2013 - 01:01 PM, said:

Where was the outcry? Pretty much where the 1PV and previous outcries went. People have just stopped caring about the game and trying to voice any feedback, because they know the Devs don't care, and it's a waste of time to even try for reasoned objection to anything done anymore. The acceptance that this is only a shallow video game, and will always be just a shallow video game to everyone who could make it something more (as opposed to what it was supposed to be at the outset) has set in, and there just isn't any point continuing to point out the obvious time and again.

And yet you, me and practically everyone reading this are still here playing. Seriously, in this light those strong statements come off as little more than rhetoric.

I like the change. It makes sense and causes the module to be viewed less as a "hack". You can't expect anything to be immune to tweaking (aka nerfing), just because people have sunk imaginary money into it (or real money for that matter).

[NuclearPanda]

Geek Verve, on 05 November 2013 - 01:29 PM, said:

And yet you, me and practically everyone reading this are still here playing. Seriously, in this light those strong statements come off as little more than rhetoric.

Amen to that my fellow Capellan.

[Frogfire]

Durant Carlyle, on 05 November 2013 - 01:22 PM, said:

There won't be less lights in the game, there will be more. Other 'Mechs are now less of a danger to lights, as they cannot constantly track us while they are moving.

You might be right. Time will tell. I am certainly not giving up on the fun of lights, just because of a module change. But I still think the fix was implemented badly, because it affects some classes of mechs more than others.

[d34th4nd]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

You still have situational awareness. Use cover, stand still for a moment, gather intel with your Seismic, relay to teammates, move on and flank/harass like a Light Mech is supposed to do.

I do do everything that you suggest already as that is the role of the light, all i am saying is now it is like having a finger removed, its not life changing more of an annoyance ill have to adapt its just a shame that they have killed it for me as i literally see no point in this module anymore, a module that lets me know that an enemy is firing is no use as well.....er.....i am capable of seeing that already with my eyes

[NuclearPanda]

Frogfire, on 05 November 2013 - 01:36 PM, said:

You might be right. Time will tell. I am certainly not giving up on the fun of lights, just because of a module change. But I still think the fix was implemented badly, because it affects some classes of mechs more than others.

True. I have to admit, I never spent money on the Seismic Sensor, even piloting lights like Ravens or my founders Jenner (I haven't tried my locust yet).

I guess it doesn't affect me as much because I never learned to rely on it. I understand it's usefulness however, but it is still useful in a TEAM situation.

[Prawfutt]

Personally I feel like the seismic nerf will actually benefit light mechs in the long run.

What you lose - the forwarning that coming around a corner isn't going to plant you in front of a jaggerbomb (AC40)
Yes, this sucks, and you may die a few more times than you used to from it.

What you gain - Most mechs will not be running seismic by default anymore. you can actually use evasion and avoidance to up your survivability because no longer does everyone within 180m of you know EXACTLY where you are.

what you also gain - Seismic will still appeal to assault and heavy's performing support roles. these are light mechs favored prey. if they are moving there is NO chance they will see you creeping up from behind to stab them in the back. if they are standing still (seismic operational) you get to trick them with weapon ground impacts.

Edited by Prawfut Bludskin, 05 November 2013 - 02:02 PM.

[Thipequz]

Durant Carlyle, on 05 November 2013 - 01:26 PM, said:

lol

Exaggerate a bit much?

The module is still useful. It's simply no longer gawd mode.

It's nowhere near a use-once-then-explode PPC.

Who doesn't love a bit of daft exaggeration, lol. Yes a fire once and explode ppc is significantly less useful than this module, but surely you get my point, just like I was trying to explain how I get your point. For someone who plays a lot of this game, has spent a lot of real money, and who will continue playing this regardless of the nerf, it is still very frustrating to consider that all those c-bills have gone to waste, I WOULD have spent it on other modules that are now fair more useful for my style of play.

Who can argue that the seismic wasn't overpowered? Nobody can, it is, but something that makes games great is having something that can counter the powerful mechanics of the game and catch people unawares. I loath to do it, but anyone who played modern warefare 2 will remember people running around with heartbeat sensors, but they also had the Ninja perk which would counter that making you invisible to heartbeat sensors, and actually give you an advantage over them, because they became reliant on it. Jakob, has said much the same, throw in a module that counters it, leave it as it is and I for one will be more than happy. This is how games deal with things in the real world, they counter one thing with another.

[Jabilo]

Seismic has been nerfed to the point that there is no point taking it on any mech,

In addition it has been nerfed in the most lazy, binary fashion possible with no imagination shown.

How about the intensity of readings and the effective range depend upon a mixture of the following:

Your tonnage
Your speed
Your enemies tonnage
Your enemies speed

A light mech who is stationary will easily pick up an Atlas thundering along at full tilt.

An Atlas thundering along at full tilt will not easily detect a creeping scout.

It is another example of lazy incompetent design just like ECM.

[Thipequz]

NuclearPanda, on 05 November 2013 - 01:42 PM, said:

I guess it doesn't affect me as much because I never learned to rely on it. I understand it's usefulness however, but it is still useful in a TEAM situation.

Ok, say you have a seismic sensor are youre using as you say, as a TEAM thing, why not have the seismic information relayed automatically to you teammates, then this particular nerf would actually be reasonable as a team helping module. Otherwise I will only spend m games running up to a corner, and then the next 5 minutes before I am shot dead (cause im standing still in a light mech like a numpty) typing to my team mates, wow that sounds so appealing, I'm loading it up right now to have a go

[Ensaine]

I'm still patching, so I won't speak to it's usefulness .... yet.

Anyone who hasn't paid it's unlock Rank 2 cost, and tossed 6 million C-Bills at this thing please drive through.

What irks me to no end, is the cost paid, and not for the actual module, but the thousands of GXP we paid to unlock rank 2. I bought mine within the first few days of it being out, and I bought it based on it's face value.. THEN.

Now, it's much less of a module, and much less of value. PGI should at least refund down the surplus everyone paid vs. say the cost of the 360 module and it's unlock.

I highly doubt ANYONE would have paid the premium prices this thing cost if it said in the tooltip 'will be greatly nerfed in November'.

I bought a gold watch. Only mere months ago, and now, the gold is turning green, thus, NOT gold. It still keeps time, still ticks, and the little glowy thingy's still glow. But I want most of my expense back.

It's not the gold watch that was advertised, nor the one I thought I paid for.

That GXP comes way too slowly........I'd like a portion of my GXP refunded. I'll learn to roll with the module.

NOT refunding down just shows how dickish PGI is.

Edited by Ensaine, 05 November 2013 - 02:11 PM.

[Corvus Antaka]

imagine a year with no sensor at all.

before they introduced the module we didnt need it.

I liked the addition of the module, but it is an always equipped module. Now with this change more choice is involved.

My primary concern is as many ECM, pop-snipers are both made more powerful by this change, 1 for the stealth, 2 for the not moving anyhow.

[Thipequz]

Ensaine, on 05 November 2013 - 02:08 PM, said:

What irks me to no end, is the cost paid, and not for the actual module, but the thousands of GXP we paid to unlock rank 2. I bought mine within the first few days of it being out, and I bought it based on it's face value.. THEN.

Now, it's much less of a module, and much less of value. PGI should at least refund down the surplus everyone paid vs. say the cost of the 360 module and it's unlock.

I highly doubt ANYONE would have paid the premium prices this thing cost if it said in the tooltip 'will be greatly nerfed in November'.

I bought a gold watch. Only mere months ago, and now, the gold is turning green, thus, NOT gold. It still keeps time, still ticks, and the little glowy thingy's still glow. But I want most of my expense back.

It's not the gold watch that was advertised, nor the one I thought I paid for.

That GXP comes way too slowly........I'd like a portion of my GXP refunded. I'll learn to roll with the module.

NOT refunding down just shows how dickish PGI is.

Exactly my friend, nail hit with hammer, well said

[NoiseCrime]

So who do I contact to get my 15k GXP and 12 million CB's refunded?

Man what a waste and this is the second time they've nerfed something i've invested time, effort and money into in my short career in MWO. I wrote the first off to it still being in beta, but this is just a kick in the teeth and reduces any faith I have in anything in the game not changing down the line.

Was it overpowered, I don't think so, but now its pretty much useless for my mechs because I don't tend to stand still since thats a guarantee to getting shot and when I do stand still its only when I know there aren't any enemy mechs around me.

Even so if the majority wanted it nerfed so be it, but be fair, delete my modules and refund me the GXP and CB's so I can re-invest in something else. As it stands now it feels like i've wasted considerable investiment and thats not a good emotion for a game to generate in its players.

[Frogfire]

I have tried a few fights with the new advanced seismic mk. II. And my conclusion is to strip it, at least from the light. Another observation I made was that it makes ECM much more useful, since ECM can hide an entire team, with no way of knowing except eyeball.

I never relied entirely on seismic, since the range is and was limited. But now it ends up on the mantlepiece, next to my command console. I think the old module worked better, because it told you there be enemies about, but not what kind and where they might be vulnerable.

[kravkalash]

It's not about agreeing with the change or not, it's about dealing with changing game mechanics. Players should be able to get a full refund on their current seismic modules, if they bought them because they did something that they no longer can do. If they don't want to sell them, also fine, but they now have something that's worth less (not worthless). The current seismic module is no longer worth the 6 mill, it's now more in line with the other modules (2-4 mill).